Trying to understand marriage

[excaliber]

I am not married. However my father has been married at least 3 times
And my mother has been married exactly 3 times.
Death did not end any of those marriges, meaning all but there current marriges ended in failure.

Now I contemplate marrige for myself, and I have doubts about the marrige arrangement.

It seems like the purpose is procreation. Because I have seen from experience that a mate may not satisfy your need for sex (for example so many men going to pornography or strip clubs or adultry) marriage may not satisfy
your need for companionship (for example women finding that there husband is more interested in football then them and reading romance novels and watching soap oprahs.

I have seen a marriage where two people don’t even get along, and don’t even seem to like eachother.

Also I have seen where one mate dies young and it leaves the living mate in great pain and anguish.

We have seen rich movie stars that people fantasies about being married to…get married and ALSO devorce.

Why do people get married…in short God programed us to do so.
For example a man looks at a woman and a powerfull emotional response is triggered. The two enjoy the very powerfull almost irresistible emotions that are triggered when together.These emotions make judgment difficult…I know I have ofcourse dated before.However these emotions DO NOT remain as strong as they were in MANY casses.

Some times one will actualy trick the other by hiding the truth,so that a person marries them thinking they are someone they are not.

I don’t understand it. The problems are virtualy endless.

However God put it inside a man, to see a couple holding hands and feel incomplete.we were basicly programed to NEED a companion.

Then acording to the Church we are obligated to then feel uncomplete without a child. then the couple must be open to numerous other children. Which opens the possibilities for many other problems.

Marriage is not logical because the odds are that you will give more then you receive. Or be locked into a contract even though your mate is not keeping there side of the deal.

I don’t understand why?

 

[kage_ar]

Marriage is a vocation. God calls each of us to a vocation, and we must listen and discern that call.

It is sad that you did not see the witness of a Sacramental marriage as a model when you grew up.

I’d suggest you begin reading and study of what the Church teaches with regard to Marriage.

The Catechism is a wonderful start.

Another is the book by Fulton Sheen “Three To Get Married”.

John Paul the Great’s “Theology of the Body” should also be on your list.

Pray and study, God will show you what vocation He has in store for you, and how to best live that vocation.

 

[Cat]

Is there any chance that you could find and get to know a couple who is happily married?

I think that since you have never really seen a “good” marriage, you have no idea how it is supposed to work.

My husband and I have been happily married for 29 years, and we dated for six years before we got married. We were virgins when we married.

We are wildly in love. We actually keep a list of our lovemaking! (We were thrilled to discover that we actually make love more than Glamour Magazine says that most couples make love! And we’re in our 50s!)

But it’s not just sex. It’s about respecting and admiring each other, and encouraging each other to develop skills and talents. My husband figure skates, and I attend his competitions and pay for a lot of his expenses out of my salary.

And I write novels, but my husband acts as my “secretary” and does all the “business” stuff.

We have a lot of fun. We have been fortunate that we haven’t experienced devastating tragedy yet, but it’s bound to happen sooner or later.

One thing that did really strain us happened about 12 years ago. My husband was diagnosed with clinical depression (after many months of sinking lower and lower into the Slough of Despond). It took almost two years for the psychiatrist to find a med that worked.

This was very hard for me, and I pulled away from my husband as I attempted to preserve my own sanity. Looking back, I wish I had stuck closer to him. But I didn’t know. We can’t change the past.

And I think that’s one of the secrets to our marriage–we forgive each other. We don’t hold grudges or dredge up the past and our mistakes. We don’t resent each other because we got old and fat. My husband uses a C-pap to breathe at night now, but to me, he’s still just as sexy in bed as ever! And I have had major surgery to correct a deformed foot and I still walk like a Lovecraftian frog-person, but he still says that I’m gorgeous.

Anyway, if you could find a couple (like us) to hang out around, it might help you to see how marriage is a picture or icon of Christ and His Church.

 

[BamaRider]

I’ve been married 32 years, all good years too.

But I think that is the exception. Now days couples divorce too quickly in my opinion. They hit a rough patch, and give up, when you need to work through it.

Many of our friends have split after years of marriage. I’m speaking of couples with 25-30 years suddenly cashing out.

There are many stages in a marriage, all of them offer a different challenge. My wife and I were empty nesters at the ripe old age 43. After years of child rearing we had to adjust to the fact it was just us, a situation we quickly adapted to, and I might add the last 10 years have been very good, as we enjoy the blessings God has granted us.

I’m not the same man she married 32 years ago, nor is she the same lady. You have to be able to deal with that successfully to enjoy all that marriage has to offer.

It has been my experience most marriages get into trouble with finances, infidelity, and control freaks. Avoid those things and your improve your chances at success tremendously.

And it pays to know your potential partner as well as you can. I don’t believe religion is as big a problem as agreeing on how to spend the money.

Other than that, I don’t have any magic words. Marriage may not be for everybody, in fact I’m sure it isn’t. I prolly don’t understand the institution of marriage, I only understand my marriage.

 

[macian]

Well I am not yet married myself, so you can take this or leave this, but these are my thoughts: I think there is a greater purpose to marriage than procreation. Children are of course a very important part of married life, and marriage is the beginning of a new family; but for the two people making the commitment to one another, it is much more than simply an environment in which to raise children. For those who are called to married life, marriage is first and foremost a vocation; that is, it is the path by which they are being led to heaven. When one has a vocation to religious life, he or she has both the opportunity and the responsibility to help many people on the path to heaven; in marriage, the husband and wife have a specific responsibility to one another, as well as to their children.

Just because in many instances marriages fail, does not mean the ideal itself is wrong. As Chesterton wrote, “It is the nature of love to bind itself, and the institution of marriage merely paid the average man the compliment of taking him at his word.” If one goes into a marriage not understanding the nature of marriage, or the gravity of his commitment, then it is not surprising when the marriage doesn’t last. There is a high divorce rate, but I think in many cases divorce is the result of people getting married too quickly, or for the wrong reasons. On the other hand, if one takes the time to discern whether his future spouse is the person he is supposed to spend the rest of his life with, then the marriage has a greater chance of success. Marriage is difficult; one can’t go into marriage expecting the other person to be perfect, or the marriage to give him complete and total happiness. It is not the nature of human love to be complete. I would encourage you to listen to Fulton Sheen’s talks on marriage, because he does a much better job of explaining this idea than I can!

In any case, marriage is a risk, and perhaps for this reason it is a bit illogical. You don’t know how you will change, or how your spouse will change in ten years; but the very nature of love is risk and sacrifice. You could make the same argument you made against marriage about all human love and all human relationships. The very nature of love is to give more than one receives; but true love does not expect anything in return. When one sees a marriage where both the husband and the wife love one another mutually, devotedly, but perhaps not perfectly, there is no greater human example of love. Our relationships to others are what give our life meaning, and to be afraid to risk ourselves because the relationship may not work out is a sure way to unhappiness!

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

I don’t understand it. The problems are virtualy endless.
**
So are the potential joys**

However God put it inside a man, to see a couple holding hands and feel incomplete.we were basicly programed to NEED a companion.

No man is an island:thumbsup:

Then acording to the Church we are obligated to then feel uncomplete without a child.

According to GOD we are to cooperate with Him in bringing forth new souls.

then the couple must be open to numerous other children. Which opens the possibilities for many other problems.

**And numerous other joys.

And the couple doesn’t HAVE to be open to 18 children over the course of their fertile years. Their obligation is to do God’s will. A couple can use NFP to space or postpone conception if their reasons are important enough (which is between the couple and God only).**

Marriage is not logical because the odds are that you will give more then you receive. Or be locked into a contract even though your mate is not keeping there side of the deal.
**
We learn so much more by giving than by receiving. We build character through tough times. Through sacrifice. Through suffering. Now I am NOT saying that marriage is supposed to be all about suffering! But if it works out that way it is not for nothing…

If one understands the true purpose of marriage (which it seems you are trying to do) and finds a mate who also understands it then you will have more joy than you could ever hope for.

Having someone who is “one flesh” with you and there for you through thick and thin and who can be depended on for as long as you both shall live is pretty amazing, don’t you think?

It’s not marriage that is the problem…it is that society has lost it’s respect for it. No one understands commitment anymore. It has become all about what the individual can get instead of what they can give. If we focus more on how we can help our spouse obtain holiness and get to heaven we would be more fulfilled than if our spouse gave us all of the material things we think we need…**

I don’t understand why?

I hope you will. It would be very sad for you to go through life thinking that the examples of marriage you have been exposed to are what it’s supposed to be like…

 

[Morwenna]

Wow, you’ve had some wonderful responses so far, excaliber.

I don’t have anything to add from a personal perspective (I’m still waiting for my future husband to come and claim me ), but you might want to consider these wise words from C.S. Lewis:

philosophyforlife.com/mc16.htm

 

[excaliber]

Well I am not yet married myself, so you can take this or leave this, but these are my thoughts: I think there is a greater purpose to marriage than procreation. Children are of course a very important part of married life, and marriage is the beginning of a new family; but for the two people making the commitment to one another, it is much more than simply an environment in which to raise children. For those who are called to married life, marriage is first and foremost a vocation; that is, it is the path by which they are being led to heaven. When one has a vocation to religious life, he or she has both the opportunity and the responsibility to help many people on the path to heaven; in marriage, the husband and wife have a specific responsibility to one another, as well as to their children.

Just because in many instances marriages fail, does not mean the ideal itself is wrong. As Chesterton wrote, “It is the nature of love to bind itself, and the institution of marriage merely paid the average man the compliment of taking him at his word.” If one goes into a marriage not understanding the nature of marriage, or the gravity of his commitment, then it is not surprising when the marriage doesn’t last. There is a high divorce rate, but I think in many cases divorce is the result of people getting married too quickly, or for the wrong reasons. On the other hand, if one takes the time to discern whether his future spouse is the person he is supposed to spend the rest of his life with, then the marriage has a greater chance of success. Marriage is difficult; one can’t go into marriage expecting the other person to be perfect, or the marriage to give him complete and total happiness. It is not the nature of human love to be complete. I would encourage you to listen to Fulton Sheen’s talks on marriage, because he does a much better job of explaining this idea than I can!

In any case, marriage is a risk, and perhaps for this reason it is a bit illogical. You don’t know how you will change, or how your spouse will change in ten years; but the very nature of love is risk and sacrifice. You could make the same argument you made against marriage about all human love and all human relationships. The very nature of love is to give more than one receives; but true love does not expect anything in return. When one sees a marriage where both the husband and the wife love one another mutually, devotedly, but perhaps not perfectly, there is no greater human example of love. Our relationships to others are what give our life meaning, and to be afraid to risk ourselves because the relationship may not work out is a sure way to unhappiness!

The risk is the issue.
You risk the possibility that you will vow before God to remain with someone who could back out of there part of the agreement…making your life worst then you could imagine.

The agreement is for life…however at anytime the other mate could stop loving you.

For example what if the wife puts on a lot of wait, this could be a huge turn of for the husband, and the husband could possibly not stand the sight off her.

However there is no way out of the contract.

The man may have even stated before the marriage that he dose NOT like fat women.
And the wife may have stated that she NEEDS physical attention…A verbal CONTRACT between them.
But they in this example both break the contract. But canot break the “till death do us part” portion of the contract.

Question…how do I know that I won’t be the one to break my half of the contract…how do I know she won’t break hers?

 

[Morwenna]

The risk is the issue.
You risk the possibility that you will vow before God to remain with someone who could back out of there part of the agreement…making your life worst then you could imagine.

The agreement is for life…however at anytime the other mate could stop loving you.

For example what if the wife puts on a lot of wait, this could be a huge turn of for the husband, and the husband could possibly not stand the sight off her.

However there is no way out of the contract.

The man may have even stated before the marriage that he dose NOT like fat women.
And the wife may have stated that she NEEDS physical attention…A verbal CONTRACT between them.
But they in this example both break the contract. But canot break the “till death do us part” portion of the contract.

Question…how do I know that I won’t be the one to break my half of the contract…how do I know she won’t break hers?

LIFE is a risk.

This song says it better than I can: youtube.com/watch?v=1FdB5Adws78

 

[BamaRider]

The risk is the issue.
You risk the possibility that you will vow before God to remain with someone who could back out of there part of the agreement…making your life worst then you could imagine.

The agreement is for life…however at anytime the other mate could stop loving you.

For example what if the wife puts on a lot of wait, this could be a huge turn of for the husband, and the husband could possibly not stand the sight off her.

However there is no way out of the contract.

The man may have even stated before the marriage that he dose NOT like fat women.
And the wife may have stated that she NEEDS physical attention…A verbal CONTRACT between them.
But they in this example both break the contract. But canot break the “till death do us part” portion of the contract.

Question…how do I know that I won’t be the one to break my half

Based on this, I’d probably be safe in sayin you’re not ready for marriage yet.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Based on this, I’d probably be safe in sayin you’re not ready for marriage yet.

**
That is quite obvious… no man who didn’t want to sleep in the dog house for the rest of his natural life would ask his bride to be to agree to a verbal contract that she not get fat**
**
Marriage is not about trivial things like stuff and weight and jobs and other worldly things. It is about two people accepting a vocation to each other. Vowing to get each other to heaven. Vowing to give 100% all of the time, whether or not they get the same in return. **

 

[excaliber]

Marriage IS my vocation, I have known for sure for 3 years. I have tried religious life, it was in another denomination…which means I was able to leave when I found out about the catholic faith.And I left SURE that had I been Catholic I would have tried to be a priest…that would not have been a good idea, because alone at best I operate at 80 percent.
But even dating I am far better…I just am BUILT to be connected with someone, and I have even had others tell me that.

The problem is trusting someone else.

 

[excaliber]

**
That is quite obvious… no man who didn’t want to sleep in the dog house for the rest of his natural life would ask his bride to be to agree to a verbal contract that she not get fat**
**
Marriage is not about trivial things like stuff and weight and jobs and other worldly things. It is about two people accepting a vocation to each other. Vowing to get each other to heaven. Vowing to give 100% all of the time, whether or not they get the same in return. **

Originally Posted by BamaRider
Based on this, I’d probably be safe in sayin you’re not ready for marriage yet.

LOL
That was a story.
What is the reason for telling storys that are not true?

To make a point.

What was the point?

Things Change. You begin with ideas as to what you want…what happens when you are disapointed how do you know who will work through it and who will give up?

Lets not judge one another based of a few sentences that could be taken out of context.

 

[excaliber]

**
That is quite obvious… no man who didn’t want to sleep in the dog house for the rest of his natural life would ask his bride to be to agree to a verbal contract that she not get fat**
**
Marriage is not about trivial things like stuff and weight and jobs and other worldly things. It is about two people accepting a vocation to each other. Vowing to get each other to heaven. Vowing to give 100% all of the time, whether or not they get the same in return. **

Another thing I would like to add…before the thread gets way off track. I am aware of what marriage is SUPPOSED to be.
You have given me advise I have known for years.

The question is finding people who will DO what is stated in the above quote.

 

[Bataar]

LIFE is a risk.

True, very true, but that is a risk we are forced into. We have no choice there. Thankfully, once we are born, we have choices and can choose to avoid unnecessary risks.

 

[excaliber]

Feanaro_s_Wife:
All the things you state are things I already know. I have seen and examined 5 of the 6 marriages of my parents.

I KNOW a great deal.
Let me refraise my questions.

I have seen what it is like when one mate gives up, then they spend the rest of there lives growing apart.

My question is about the searching.

And trying to understand why so many others have failed.

But trust me, I have thought about prayed about and observed marriages for years…I don’t need marriage advise…I need searching advise.

I can’t see another persons heart.

 

[excaliber]

True, very true, but that is a risk we are forced into. We have no choice there. Thankfully, once we are born, we have choices and can choose to avoid unnecessary risks.

You can’t chose to avoid sommething you canot see…we canot see the heart.

Yes out of the heart the mouth speaks…but who quits and who works on marriages?

I have seen many problemes in many marriages…But some mates give up…they don’t communicate they don’t try…they don’t care.
Something happens and they change drasticaly from the person the other mate married.

How do you forsee and avoid this particular problem??

 

[Bataar]

You can’t chose to avoid sommething you canot see…we canot see the heart.

Yes out of the heart the mouth speaks…but who quits and who works on marriages?

I have seen many problemes in many marriages…But some mates give up…they don’t communicate they don’t try…they don’t care.
Something happens and they change drasticaly from the person the other mate married.

How do you forsee and avoid this particular problem??

You misunderstand me. I’m agreeing with you. I’m saying that unlike life in general, marriage is a risk we can choose to avoid.

 

[BamaRider]

The man may have even stated before the marriage that he dose NOT like fat women.
And the wife may have stated that she NEEDS physical attention…A verbal CONTRACT between them.
But they in this example both break the contract. But canot break the “till death do us part” portion of the contract.

Question…how do I know that I won’t be the one to break my half of the contract…how do I know she won’t break hers?

When you make statements like this what are we suppose to think? It lends me to believe you’re not ready for marriage. Now I didn’t think it, YOU said/wrote it. LOL.

But now ya ask the question, “how can I trust her not to break her vows?” Well how ya reckon you’re gonna find a young lady to trust, when you ain’t even sure you can keep those same vows yourself?

have seen many problemes in many marriages…But some mates give up…they don’t communicate they don’t try…they don’t care.
Something happens and they change drasticaly from the person the other mate married.

How do you forsee and avoid this particular problem??

You can’t. Your partner is going to change in a long marriage, maybe drastically, maybe not. The question becomes how do YOU deal it. I’ve seen my wife change in many ways over 32 years, but her essence has always been the same. She is much more independent now, she is more apt to speak her mind. When we met she was a beautiful, 19 year old Meg Ryan look alike. She is now 52, so yeah, she’s changed alot. Heck she changes hairstyles now like I change socks.

One of the most drastic changes is when she becomes a mother, how are YOU gonna handle NOT being the center of her attention anymore?

I can’t tell ya what to search for, it will vary from guy to guy.

but I think the followign would be common to all

-strong faith- speaks for itself.

-honesty- ever catch her in a fib? And I’m not talking about if she fed the cat.

-committment- does she finish what she starts?

If I dated a girl with one of those red flags, I eased out.

What I’ve found watching young men looking to settle down is this-If the girl is attractive, and the object of a lot of attention, men will skip over alot of her other flaws.

 

[Just_wondering]

Morwenna, thanks for posting that song. I really needed to hear that today.

OP, the truth is that you can never be certain that the person you love isn’t going to change in a way that you can’t accept. However, you can do your best to protect yourself against that chance by choosing someone who you can respect and admire in fundamental ways. Faith and morals are key. Beliefs that are at the core of their being and yours. If you disagree about fashion and where to spend Saturday evenings, you might have a few arguments. If you disagree about the importance of doing what you said you’d do and the role God plays in your lives, you’re opening the door to change in all the wrong directions. When you find someone whose values and faith you respect and admire even more than your own, I think you’ll know.

I have doubts about my relationship with my boyfriend. I wonder whether he’ll be happy if he immigrates to Canada to marry me. I wonder whether he’ll decide that he’d rather we have fewer children and be able to support the ones we have better. I wonder whether he’ll want to work in a dangerous job that will make me worry about him all the time. I wonder whether he’ll fall into a depression, get ill, be injured at work, or even die young. I didn’t “sign up” for any of those things, but they might happen. It’s a risk I’ll take.

However, I don’t wonder whether he’ll be chronically unemployed and unable to support us - I know his values would force him to take any menial job he can get to support his family. I don’t wonder whether he’d pressure me to get an abortion or get sterilized if we didn’t plan to have more children. I don’t wonder whether he’ll suddenly embrace a New-Age religion and start making astral projections. I don’t wonder whether he’ll start living a life of crime or visiting prostitutes. There are certain values he has that I have seen him living over the past 18 months, and those core values of his I know won’t change.

I guess you should decide what is important to you, and look for people who won’t do those things. You can never predict what life has in store for you, but you can put yourself in situations where the risk is lessened.

And you have to accept that no marriage is perfect. I’m fairly certain finances will always be a struggle in my future marriage. My boyfriend has a large family (7 siblings, plus extended family) in a third-world country, so I know we’ll always be getting phone calls asking for financial help. That’s life. There will always be a cousin who had an accident and can’t pay his hospital bill, and a niece or nephew who can’t scrape up this semester’s tuition. When you find someone you can consider marrying, consider what sort of problems you’re likely to have and enter your marriage with your eyes open. Communication and willingness to accept struggles are really important.