Tubal Ligation

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Hello everyone!

My wife is 29 and I am 31. We have 4 children, ages (6,5,3 and 5 months) all delivered via c-section. We really do strive to live in perfect union with the Church’s teaching in all matters and take our faith quite seriously.

After our 4th was born last Sept, my wife’s doctor told her that he recommended that she not have any more children. Now let me say he is Catholic also and he told us that he never tells people that unless it is serious. Apparently my wife’s uterus was nearly “see through thin” and in fact he moved up the last birth nearly 2 weeks because he was afraid her uterus would rupture.

So the issue is that my wife went and talked to two different priests about potentially getting a tubal ligation. Both of them told her it was “ok” because we have been completely open to new life in our marriage and because her intent wasn’t to prevent more children (we would love more!) but to protect her life.

She has it scheduled for this coming Tuesday, and last night I finally told her that I am not comfortable with it at all. I’ve been praying about this non-stop for weeks and it just feels “wrong”. Also read in the catechism and some encyclicals on the matter and it seems to indicate that unless there is immediate danger of the life of the mother (or damaging the repro organs is an unintended side effect of eradicating another issue, like cancer), then it is not allowed.

So she’s obviously very upset. She is worried that having another child will kill her, and we’ve tried using NFP (seriously), but she has a pretty erratic cycle and we had our 2nd and 3rd children while we were attempting to delay pregnancy. So she feels like using that will not work and complete chastity is too hard to accept.

I asked her if she would cancel the procedure for next week and pray about it through the rest of Lent. Then we could discuss again at Easter and see if she feels any differently.

She agreed to that…but I guess what I’m grappling with is what do I do if she decides to go ahead with it after that against my wishes? I completely understand her fears, however I know that regardless of intentions, using illicit means to achieve those ends is wrong. Nobody every said life would be easy or that our cross to bear would be light. I am fearful for her soul more-so than for her life, because I know that she would never really be sorry for doing it after it’s done. And she agreed that she knows it is wrong on some level, but thought that since she was doing it to protect herself, not because we don’t want more children …that it was somehow less “wrong”.

Additionally, I’ve read that many women end up pregnant or with “tubal implantation” after the procedure, often ending in complications for the mother and abortion for the child. I don’t think i could handle that…so if she goes ahead with it…do I insist on marital chastity? If so…what’s the point?

I love my wife more than anyone but God can understand…we have been wonderfully blessed and we are truly thankful. But I feel like this is tearing us apart. I want to do the right thing…but how can doing the right thing destroy a marriage? I can’t fathom how that is possible.

Any serious thoughts (and prayers) would be much appreciated.
 
No words of wisdom… I can see you are truly struggling and that this decision is complicated.

What about other methods of NFP? There are several out there - Sympto-thermal, Creighton, Marquette, Billings…
Have you talked to an NFP-only doctor?

Just some ideas…

You and your family will be in my prayers.
 
I know that is a very difficult situation to be in and you have my prayers. The only thing you can do to remain true to Catholic teaching is practice complete abstinence. I wish I could recommend NFP but I have never seen it work, and this was with couples like you that really really needed to not get pregnant.

If your wife does go through with the surgery you are not required to practice martial chastity.
 
Wow, I am really sorry that your wife found not one, but two, priests who would giver her such wrong counsel. I hope for their sakes they were honestly misinformed/poorly catechized in this matter and did not knowingly tell her to commit a gravely wrong act.

Your research is correct: sterilization is **always **wrong. A tubal ligation has no medical purpose other than contraception. And, you are also correct that there can be many medical complications from such a procedure. We cannot give medical advice on this board.

You are also correct that if there had been a medical need for removal of the uterus (rupturing during the c-section for example) then that is not a sterilization procedure and it is certainly allowed.

As to your spiritual dilemma: I encourage you to continue down the path you have started with your wife. Be honest that you know this is wrong and that you are asking her to read the materials straight from the Church that make it clear this is wrong. A well-meaning but wrong priest does not absolve you from forming your conscience properly and learning what the Church really teaches. And her idea that it can be “less wrong” depending on circumstances is, as you know, moral relativism. This is soundly rejected by the Church. And rightly so.

Regarding NFP, I encourage you to look in to a method other than the one you learned. If you learned Sympto-Thermal look at Creighton. If you learned Creighton or Billings look at a temperature cross check. And, I highly recommend you look at Marquette. The Marquette model uses an ovulation predictor kit and there are several posters on here who have been using it with great success.

If your wife commits this grave act without your consent and against your wishes, you do not carry the burden of sin or guilt for this act. You should talk to your priest, but you are not required to abstain from relations if that is what you are asking. However, the tubal will change your marital relationship, especially if she’s doing it against your wishes.

Is there an orthodox priest you can talk to first about this situation? Pehaps you could talk to them about your concerns and the poor advice your have thusfar received and then make an appointment together?

I would suggest you get some materials from www.omsoul.com and read them together.
 
Perhaps you could convince your wife to delay the procedure to allow you time to discuss it more fully. It is unfortunate that two priests have advised her that it is acceptable, despite the Church’s adamant teaching to the contrary. This has, undoubtedly, confused your wife, who may now believe this behavior is not sinful.

If not (or if, at a later time, she has the tubal anyway), you are not obligated to abstain. Any sin here is hers, not yours.

I will keep you in my prayers. This is a truly heart wrenching experience, probably for both of you.

MJ
 
I am not asking that you challenge the priest’s advice to you but have you asked him about the Catholic law that states that birth control is wrong? Have you asked him point blank why he says it’s OK for her to have tubal ligation which goes against what Catholic law teaches? If I were you, I would do that. There may be some wisdom he has that you and others on the board don’t know about or haven’t thought about. I really think you should ask one of the priests why they said tubal ligation is OK for your wife.
 
noclevername said:
I am not asking that you challenge the priest’s advice to you but have you asked him about the Catholic law that states that birth control is wrong? Have you asked him point blank why he says it’s OK for her to have tubal ligation which goes against what Catholic law teaches? If I were you, I would do that. There may be some wisdom he has that you and others on the board don’t know about or haven’t thought about. I really think you should ask one of the priests why they said tubal ligation is OK for your wife.
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It is fine to ask the priest why, but in the end the reason the priest gave wrong counsel is irrelevant. The priest gave objectively wrong counsel. The Church teaches that sterilization is always wrong. The priest counseled sterilization; the priest gave objectively wrong advice.
 
I know your concern is for your wife’s soul as well as her physical health. Understand that fear can mitigate culpability for sin. If she’s acting under fear of her life and leaving 4 children motherless and this is driving her actions, her culpability for this serious mutilation of a healthy body part would be lessened, I would think.

I concur with the poster who suggested you talk to NFP specialists who can show you alternate methods than the one you were using.

Good luck. I feel for you and your predicament.
 
I am not trying to give medical advice at all, but I’d like to tell you my story and please relay it to your wife or have her read it.

I became Catholic in 1999. In 1997 I had my third C-section. I have also had many miscarriages in my life. Because of how thin my uterus was, I opted for a tubal ligation during the third delivery. My reasoning was that they were already “in there” so might as well go ahead with it. My husband is a life-long Catholic and I didn’t understand the church teaching at the time about contraception.

My reasoning at the time was simply that a) I had a history of not carrying my babies to term. b) when I did carry them to term I had them by cesarean. c) I had been told by my doctor that I shouldn’t have any more children. d) We could always adopt.

Since having this done, I have had many problems with depression. There are many schools of thought about the link between the two. I have battled weight gain, abnormal periods, depression, etc. No one can say for sure whether all these things are related to the tubal ligation, but I truly believe they are!

There is not enough evidence to convince me that there is no side effects when you mess with how God made your body. I AM convinced that I did the wrong thing. In my own ignorance, I didn’t listen to my husband, and thought I knew best. It wasn’t an easy choice and I made the wrong one. The point is that no one can tell you what the ramifications of a tubal ligation are… there simply isn’t enough evidence either way.

Please re-think this. Pray about it a LOT. Look into church teachings. God knows what is best for us!!

I’ll be praying for you

in Christ
Steph
 
tundramom said:
Since having this done, I have had many problems with depression. There are many schools of thought about the link between the two. I have battled weight gain, abnormal periods, depression, etc. No one can say for sure whether all these things are related to the tubal ligation, but I truly believe they are!
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Thanks Steph…I appreciate you sharing that with us, I will definitely talk to her about this and share your story.
 
Trust in the Lord. He is odviously talking to you and i am sure your wife as well. the devil is working on her really hard as well. Fear is so powerful and it can blind us to the thruth. Just know that if you were to get pregnant God would be there with you through that.

I have never been that good at NFP and always have said when i have a grave reason is when i will get better at it. maybe take the pressure off of her and commit to chastity for a few months so she can focus on doing NFP and practicing it. Assure her that you will help, set the alarm, have the themometer ready, and the chart on your side so all she has to do is open her mouth and you do the rest. Then interpret the chart together. when my husband helped in the beginning i was much better at it and i didnt feel like all the responcebility was on my sholders.
 
I know where your coming from. I am 32 and pregnant with my sixth. I will have another section (my 5th) in August. After my 4th section my Dr. told me that the toll of the sections were obvious from the looks of my uterus and reminded me of the risks. He is also Catholic and also has suggested a tubal with my last two pregnancies. I didn’t go back to the same doctor. This time I went to a NFP only Dr. Thank God b/c he is more than supportive. He is absolutely a fantastic Dr. He admitted that there are risks but the things that happen are usually fixable things. He even told me of a patient with 10 sections. She was on bed rest in the hospital for the last 2 months of her last pregnancy but everything turned out well.
It’s probably obvious that we haven’t been the best at NFP either. As you know, it’s not easy to have a large family but each child brings such a new joy. I’m so glad I didn’t have a tubal when he suggested it I can’t imagine missing out on the treasures God has given us. We have a better family and marriage because of the gifts we have been given through our children.
I’m so glad you spoke up and she didn’t go through with it. Please encourage her to talk with an NFP only Dr. for a second opinion. I don’t know where in OK you are but you can check this list in your state of pro-life Drs. There are a couple of OB’s on the list. If they aren’t near you maybe she could at least get a phone consultation. I’ll be praying for you both.
omsoul.com/nfpbyst.php
 
Twenty-plus years is a super-humanly long time to remain completely abstinent, until your very young wife enters menopause. But my understanding on the Catholic view of this subject, is that the only completely, 100% safe and reliable method of birth control from here on out is to not engage in sexual intercourse. There are so many Catholic restrictions on what can and cannot be done sexually that before any decisions are made it would be very smart to get authoritative opinions from several legitimate sources (not including this forum, where you will find lots of opinion but not a whole lot of scientific fact). Irregularity in the cycles is problematic when trying to use the NFP methods - all it would take would be one mishap and you might find yourself the widowed father of four pre-teen kids.

I admire your striving to comply with the teachings of the Church. That’s more than I ever did, or ever will do.

Limerick
 
Why would you make your wife go through a tubal? Why is it always the woman who gets put through the ringer? There are many, many people who have struggled through this situation. Contact your local Couple-to-Couple League.
 
limerick said:
T But my understanding on the Catholic view of this subject, is that the only completely, 100% safe and reliable method of birth control from here on out is to not engage in sexual intercourse.

Limerick
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That’s not a Catholic view, that’s fact. All methods of contraception have failure rates, including tubal ligations. Abstinence is the only 100% effective method of birth control.

To the OP, I am still praying for you and your situation.

MJ
 
Ceil-1 said:
Why would you make your wife go through a tubal? Why is it always the woman who gets put through the ringer? There are many, many people who have struggled through this situation. Contact your local Couple-to-Couple League.
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The OP doesn’t want his wife to get the tubal. He’s not making her do anything here. Your post confuses me.

MJ
 
limerick said:
Irregularity in the cycles is problematic when trying to use the NFP methods -
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Uh, no it isn’t. Not at all. In fact, it is a GOOD idea to do NFP with irregular cycles, so one can find out why they cycles are irregular. In fact, irregular cycles make people observe more closely and with caution, and can actually see what symptoms are happening and base decisions on that alone (as they should be) rather than a calender.
 
agapewolf said:
Uh, no it isn’t. Not at all. In fact, it is a GOOD idea to do NFP with irregular cycles, so one can find out why they cycles are irregular. In fact, irregular cycles make people observe more closely and with caution, and can actually see what symptoms are happening and base decisions on that alone (as they should be) rather than a calender.
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After a woman, any woman, has been through medical workups for years, been put on many forms of the pill to try to regulate her periods, been to an infertility specialist and had surgical procedures including a laparoscopy to focus on fertility concerns, been assessed by an endocrinologost, etc., ad nauseum, I don’t believe that checking cervical mucus and keeping her fingers crossed is going to tell her why her periods are irregular.

Limerick
 
limerick said:
After a woman, any woman, has been through medical workups for years, been put on many forms of the pill to try to regulate her periods, been to an infertility specialist and had surgical procedures including a laparoscopy to focus on fertility concerns, been assessed by an endocrinologost, etc., ad nauseum, I don’t believe that checking cervical mucus and keeping her fingers crossed is going to tell her why her periods are irregular.

Limerick
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There’s more to it than cervical mucous. In fact many illness are diagnosed with the help of the charting. You should probably do more research. NFP also is used with success to conceive because all those indicators are useful in diagnosis because they show the whole picture of what is going on with the woman at any given time in the cycle. The pill is a one size fits all treatment to a very specific problem. More indepth studies are needed to look at each specific hormonal deficiency. Why do think a woman could be treated with pill after pill and not find the solution?

None of which changes the fact that the marital relationship is damaged by direct willfull sterilization. It can never return to the full meaning of communion that it was before the procedure. Its not the right option for catholics who respect the sacramental meaning of their lives and their bodies.
 
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