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mab23
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bingo
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zenith15
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The RCIA process has so far lasted 18 months for me and I have seen two groups of catechumens and MANY groups of candidates go through RCIA and go on to be baptized (in the case of catechumens), reconciled, confirmed and given first communion while my wait drags endlessly on for anullments to come through. My cases are very clear cut according to my advocate and none of my ex husbands object or have even responded–yet it drags on due to the very small number of tribunal members able to do this necessary work and the number of applications. I was tragically married 3 times before the age of 21. WHen I was in my early twenties I wanted desperately to join the Church but having been raised protestant I had no idea what lay in store for me. When I went to the local Catholic church and laid out my story, they informed me that I would need to fill out several ENORMOUS packets of paperwork, have 4 witnesses, be willing to have all my exes contacted and so on and that it might take years and might even then be refused and I would be forced to leave my current husband or leave the faith. I left feeling totally overwhelmed, aghast, and bewildered, as I had thought surely whatever sins I had committed prior to entering the Church would be forgotten and forgiven.
It took me over twenty years to get up the nerve to approach the Church again, but I did, because something inside me would not let me be at peace until I did. So, I determined to go through whatever I had to. Even so, after 18 months, only one anullment is finalized, two others still in the works, and then I must have my current marriage validated in the Church. My husband is seriously ill and it would break my heart not to be married to him in the eyes of God and the Church should he die before all this endless paperwork gets taken care of. I hear now that it may be two to three years . It gets very discouraging at times.
It took me over twenty years to get up the nerve to approach the Church again, but I did, because something inside me would not let me be at peace until I did. So, I determined to go through whatever I had to. Even so, after 18 months, only one anullment is finalized, two others still in the works, and then I must have my current marriage validated in the Church. My husband is seriously ill and it would break my heart not to be married to him in the eyes of God and the Church should he die before all this endless paperwork gets taken care of. I hear now that it may be two to three years . It gets very discouraging at times.
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AlanFromWichita
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I think the OP has an excellent point. We are hearing from the choir, here, people who have had highly positive RCIA experiences. My wife has been an RCIA sponsor and my son is one now, so I understand it’s a commitment and a blessing both.
But…
To me, it makes zero sense that I’m a cradle Catholic and never once had to show my knowledge of Catholicism, and yet people who willingly wish to make the choice to join us must go through all this? In eight years of Catholic grade school, they taught me less than a typical RCIA candidate probably learns in one hour. That was in the late 60s and early 70s.
Don’t get me wrong; I think RCIA is wonderful. But I think it should either be optional/recommended, or it should also be required for cradle Catholics to pass some sort of test or take some lengthy classes to be “fully Catholic.”
I say get them in the door and signed up, if they want to be. Give them provisional membership pending classes or whatever, but at least let’s not tease them by holding the Eucharist in front of their noses for several months and saying, “now now you won’t be Catholic enough for This until Spring of next year.” It’s not like the cradle Catholics all know this stuff when we go to Communion.
Alan
But…
To me, it makes zero sense that I’m a cradle Catholic and never once had to show my knowledge of Catholicism, and yet people who willingly wish to make the choice to join us must go through all this? In eight years of Catholic grade school, they taught me less than a typical RCIA candidate probably learns in one hour. That was in the late 60s and early 70s.
Don’t get me wrong; I think RCIA is wonderful. But I think it should either be optional/recommended, or it should also be required for cradle Catholics to pass some sort of test or take some lengthy classes to be “fully Catholic.”
I say get them in the door and signed up, if they want to be. Give them provisional membership pending classes or whatever, but at least let’s not tease them by holding the Eucharist in front of their noses for several months and saying, “now now you won’t be Catholic enough for This until Spring of next year.” It’s not like the cradle Catholics all know this stuff when we go to Communion.
Alan
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kkollwitz
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Our parish tends to have very well informed former Evangelicals & Fundamentalists go through RCIA. All of them are very motivated to become Catholic pronto, but are also pleased to do it the Church’s way via RCIA. Plus there’s a certain impact of having everyone enter the Church together during the East Vigil.
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thequeen
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I am a convert who had private instruction from a very dedicated and holy priest who really was faithful to the Magisterium if the ChurchI began in the summer of 1992 and was conditionally baptised comfirmed on Friday 19 December of 1993 I received the Eucharist for the first time time that following Sunday.Yes it took along time and Father made me do homework in fact I had to answer about 25 questions from every session that we had these questions were not multible choice I had to write out the answers to them and he would actually grade them for me but I was really taught the faith well and I would not trade that time for anything. and i am still continuing to learn and for that I am greatful.
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thequeen
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Imcatholic7
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It’s learning about the Church but also very importantly, RCIA is a way that a person can become part of the local Catholic community. (There’s churches I know of that RCIA is 2 years!
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jmcrae
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If you’re convinced that the Catholic Church is what Jesus established, and that there is no salvation outside of Christ, then the year of study and formation (a few hours a week, outside of normal working hours - it’s not like we lock you in a monastery and lose the keys for a year) won’t be that big of a hurdle for you, when contrasted with the possibility of eternity separated from Christ.
The reason adults coming into the Church need more formation than children born into the faith is because adults don’t have Catholic homes to go to at the end of the day. Nobody is praying the Angel prayers with them at bed time; nobody is reminding them to say their prayers, read their Bible, say their Rosary, before turning out the lights. They aren’t surrounded by images of the Sacred Heart, or crucifixes, or other tangible reminders of faith. Everything they get is at those little meetings once or twice a week at the Church - they don’t have any little Grandmas in their lives teaching them “the rest” of what they need to know.
I think a lot of cradle Catholics don’t realize that - I think maybe they simply have no idea what it is to live in a home that has no Catholics living in it (yet).
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kkollwitz
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Speaking as a kids’ catechist, 12 year olds need maybe 1/3 of the faith knowledge an adult does in order to be an adequately informed Catholic. Adults in RCIA need to learn much more than the cradle cat children do.
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zenith15
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Oh, for many of us it’s no “several months”. As I said, for me it’s already been 18 months and looks to be 2-3 more years before I can take the eucharist, and then ONLY if my anullments are approved and I marry what has been my legal husband and child’s father for 12 years in the church (If he is still alive at that time). All because of desperate marriages I made between the ages of 16 and 20 to escape a child molester and a baby beater. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate your remarks very much. My sister–a convert from the late 60’s–is still stunned that I am still waiting waiting waiting waiting endlessly.
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zenith15
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And when do they learn the rest? I’m sorry, I have no intent at all to be rude but I don’t understand that remark.
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cjmclark
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LOL…this was the first thing that came to mind…
http://petslady.com/files/images/532315_323522054376123_698485603_n.img_assist_custom.jpg
There’s a separate thread going on re: whether or not the Church actually effectively catechizes. I think a very valid point was raised there - namely, that parents are responsible for raising their children a Catholics, not the Church. The Church provides the resources (in varying degrees, depending on your diocese/parish), but it’s the parents’ responsibility to educate their children and help them develop the lifelong habits (namely prayer, fasting, almsgiving, et c.) that go with a faithful Catholic lifestyle.
There has been a general (in the US, at least) lessening of interest by parents in their child’s education over the past 50 years, and I think this has unfortunately extended to religious education. (Before other parents here jump down my throat over exactly how involved they are in their child’s education, let me re-emphasize the word general.) I think if we as parents did a better job of educating our children, they would in turn seek to continue furthering that education down the road. But that means (for many of us) educating ourselves first.
RCIA for adult converts is a much more involved process than it is for cradle Catholics because it is assumed that cradle Catholics were actually raised and educated in the faith (like their parents promised at their wedding and again at the child’s Baptism). Unfortunately, for many folks, this isn’t necessarily the case, and it should fall to the catechists and the DRE to determine where the shortfalls exist. But that doesn’t mean that the process itself isn’t worthwhile. I think all Catholics should try to educate themselves to at least the level required of adult converts.
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Elizabeth502
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Same is true for conversion to Judaism.
We live in an unfortunately impatient and superficial world. There’s no crash course in Catholicism, and actually becoming Catholic as an adult (or Jewish as an adult) is a real challenge, because there is so much of the essential teaching to be learned that cannot be learned even in a year.
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fred_conty
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It isn’t that RCIA takes time, but there is something else that goes on…formation.
Formation is the object of any one who wishes to be in the true image of Christ and one with him.
It just takes time for the absorbtion of grace to form the soul.
A person can be informed but there is something else needed, the transformation of the informed person to the formed person.
The knowledge should change the person’s viewpoint not only to christian but to catholic christian.
There are also previous dandelion ideas about the world and about God which must be extracted and replaced by the right seeds of the faith which also takes time.
The person must not only change in his mind, but also in his heart.
And then there are some ideas that are Catholic and brand new which also need to be accepted and incorporated in life.
Formation of a new individual in Christ, or Mary, is essential to start with. The information process will continue in a life long thirst that will go on.
In this brief article the degrees of Catholic are explained quite well.
philvaz.com/apologetics/a54.htm
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zenith15
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And this is all very true. However, having the traditional cycle of RCIA drag on not just for a year, but for years and years and years, due to the annulment process and lack of tribunal members to oversee it in a timely manner. For those who are divorced during this process they can still join the church after making a confession, but for those who have remarried–even long before the thought of becoming catholic entered their heads–the wait is often interminable, filled with delays, false hopes, disappointments—I just can’t imagine Jesus would want those who so desperately yearn to be fully joined to His Church to be kept from him for so long they could teach RCIA themselves and know more about Catholicism than 75% of the parish, all because they simply haven’t time to attend to all the “red tape”.
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zenith15
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ANd when I say “they” I mean the Church, not the parishoner.
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cjmclark
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It sounds like you have had a fairly rough time of it. Please forgive me for being blunt, but cases like yours (candidates delayed in RCIA due to processing of multiple annulments) are the exception rather than the rule. Simply put, most candidates don’t have to deal with that kind of situation.
Is it a perfect system? Of course not, but it’s one that works the majority of the time. It is unfortunate that you have had to deal with so many delays, but that’s a fact of life of dealing with any bureaucracy, not anything specific to the Church. The lack of tribunal members definitely doesn’t help, and it points to a wider problem - the lack of vocations in today’s Church.
As far as those who have remarried and require an annulment for their marriage to be convalidated and “desperately yearn to be fully joined to His Church,” the option always exists to live separately from their spouse, not engage in the marital act, and go to Reconciliation. I realize that this may be difficult for you as I believe you mentioned earlier that your husband is ill, but as I said it’s not a perfect system that can account for every circumstance.
I am sorry that you are in such a difficult situation and I will pray for you and your husband. Please don’t get discouraged and let anything as gravely human as bureaucracy dissuade you from finishing your journey to Christ’s Church.
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zenith15
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In fact, that was what was being discussed. My husband and I have been unable to participate in the marital act for two years now, and unless he gets a transplant, those days are likely over. EVen if he were to somehow get a transplant and be able to complete the act again, I have sworn to my church as has he that we would abstain from any such relations and live as brother and sister until the annulments were through and we were validly married. We have a young son so the church does not require that we physically separate (move out)–only that we vow to live chastely together. Everyone had agreed–all the RCIA folks, mt sponsor, the priest, a canon lawyer that was consulted, and I was going to come in at the next quarterly candidate’s acceptance in July or August.
Then we found our priest is being transfered for medical reasons and we are getting a quite possibly very very conservative priest in his place at the end of June. I have been informed that, even after being told that all was approved and ready to go, now, it will all depend on the personal opinion of the new ppiest–non Canon law, etc, but personal opinion. I was just shattered. Even after agreeing to live with my legal husband as brother and sister–which we do anyway–and being told that would be ok–now once again it’s "well, maybe not–we’ll all just have to wait some more and have some more meetings and see. " This seems wrong to me.
Then we found our priest is being transfered for medical reasons and we are getting a quite possibly very very conservative priest in his place at the end of June. I have been informed that, even after being told that all was approved and ready to go, now, it will all depend on the personal opinion of the new ppiest–non Canon law, etc, but personal opinion. I was just shattered. Even after agreeing to live with my legal husband as brother and sister–which we do anyway–and being told that would be ok–now once again it’s "well, maybe not–we’ll all just have to wait some more and have some more meetings and see. " This seems wrong to me.
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CleverUserName
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It’s not a race to the finish line.
RCIA is an educational process, yes. But it’s a conversion process as well. It’s also you becoming part of the community that is your local congregation, but most importantly: the Church that you are “joining” is the mystical body of Christ. If that isn’t worth a year of your time, I don’t know what is.
Sadie
RCIA is an educational process, yes. But it’s a conversion process as well. It’s also you becoming part of the community that is your local congregation, but most importantly: the Church that you are “joining” is the mystical body of Christ. If that isn’t worth a year of your time, I don’t know what is.
Sadie
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zenith15
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Again, it’s not a year. We are talking about being told, after waiting 18 months ALREADY, that it may be another 3 to 4 YEARS, even though we live in a chaste relationship because of his health and we have a young child which dispenses us from having to move out according to Cannon law. I find it hard to believe, it a real world where 50% of people are divorced at least once if not multiple times, that my case is so exceptionally unusual and that almost all adult converts who come to the church in their late 40’s have never been divorced and remarried.
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