Turn the altar back around?

[Brendan]

I don’t have the documents, but my info came from a priest who gave a conference on the history of the Mass. His explanation was that the priest, acting as Christ, does not elevate the host above his head.

He said the practice of elevating the host above the head came from the Middle Ages, where people actually paid for front row seats in order to see the host as it was consecrated. In those days, the host was not elevated about the head, but being the majority of the congregation could not see it, the practice change to where the host was elevevated so that all could see.

Jim

That sounds like that priest’s personal opinion then. Without a regulatory document, it is not a rubric.

And the history also sounds somewhat dubious.

 

[AJV]

I don’t have the documents, but my info came from a priest who gave a conference on the history of the Mass. His explanation was that the priest, acting as Christ, does not elevate the host above his head.

He said the practice of elevating the host above the head came from the Middle Ages, where people actually paid for front row seats in order to see the host as it was consecrated. In those days, the host was not elevated about the head, but being the majority of the congregation could not see it, the practice change to where the host was elevevated so that all could see.

Jim

I have read of this before but I don’t think it is based on document. The argument is that since the rubrics say to show the consecrated Host and the priest is facing the people there is no need to raise it very high. I know that liberal/conservative labels are not always correct but generally I have seen this practise advocated by those who don’t regard older practices very favourably. I remember some years back (around 3 or 4 I think) when on holiday, I was reading the Archdiocese of Bombay’s magazine and there was this priest who was advocating this (along with other dubious practices like “looking at the community” while pronouncing the Words of Christ despite the fact that the rubrics instruct the priest to bow)

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That sounds like that priest’s personal opinion then. Without a regulatory document, it is not a rubric.

And the history also sounds somewhat dubious.

He had the documents to support his thesis.

He has a PHD in Theology and Liturgy, which he got in Rome.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That sounds like that priest’s personal opinion then. Without a regulatory document, it is not a rubric.

And the history also sounds somewhat dubious.

It wasn’t his opinion but historical data on how the Mass change through the centuries. Also, he is a Discalced Carmelite Friar, and has a PHD from Rome on Spirituality and the Liturgy.

He also happens to be a friend of mind and if I get the chance, I’m going to see if he can provide me with information.

Jim

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Forgive me for saying so, but if the priest were to lift the Host no higher than his eyes when celebrating ad orientem, no one but the priest would see Our Lord.

For some reason, I don’t think the Masses celebrated since Trent, and perhaps much sooner than that, only had Elevation to eye level - for this very reason.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

People!

The Mass is a celebration!

Which ever direction it takes to have us “celebrate” together is the point.

Remember — The Jews were so busy following rules.

We want participation!!

God does not need us. We need Him!!!

Hello i pod,

Consider reading this entire speech of Pope John Paul II from a 1998 ad limina visit he had out in the Western US. Here is an excerpt found under bullet 3:

Active participation certainly means that, in gesture, word, song and service, all the members of the community take part in an act of worship, which is anything but inert or passive. Yet active participation does not preclude the active passivity of silence, stillness and listening: indeed, it demands it. Worshippers are not passive, for instance, when listening to the readings or the homily, or following the prayers of the celebrant, and the chants and music of the liturgy. These are experiences of silence and stillness, but they are in their own way profoundly active. In a culture which neither favors nor fosters meditative quiet, the art of interior listening is learned only with difficulty. Here we see how the liturgy, though it must always be properly inculturated, must also be counter-cultural.
**
Truly, the entire document begs for study of those who think they know what active participation is - in addition to those references provided by Brendan.

**Seek the face of God in the Mass **
not the face of the priest

 

[rdemartino]

I think it would be a good idea to have the priest and the people face the same direction in Mass as it would make the Mass more ‘God-centric’ (sorry, I invented a word, hope you know what I mean). Like, we worship God together, the priest is leading us in the celebration of Mass but he is not the focus and neither are we. I think it would have a better feel than the way it is now (with the priest facing us like a musician would at a concert), I haven’t seen it done before but I’ve heard that it used to be that way. What do you think? (There is a poll above and you may discuss here).

I definitely agree. I sometimes feel that the priest is put in a situation where he is entertaining the people rather than praying with the people. I do remember when the priest had his back to us and it was a beautiful mass…latin of course…the Tridentine mass. Unfortunately looks like those days are gone…even though the Vatican is promoting it again.

 

[jc-servant]

I remember when the altar was at the back and contained th tabernacle in the centter.

Many parishes today have the tabernacle in an “anteroom” and when we enter the church and genuflect or bow before entering the pew we are acknowledging the chair since the tabernacle is not visible. This is not a good thing because we are there solely to honor Christ. The tabernacle also had an aura of His Presence and it aided us in a more contemplative frame of mind and spirit/

.

We are not supposed to genuflect except to the Real Presence in the tabernacle (or on the altar during mass), so that is an error if people just do it from habit w/out the tabernacle present. At my church we have occasional reminders in our bulletin with an explanation.

We are supposed to bow to the altar because of the holy relics of saints beneath every Catholic altar. If someone is bowing to the presider’s chair then they are confused or possibly poorly catechized. This would not be corrected merely by moving the altar around or changing the orientation of the priest during the liturgy.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

We are not supposed to genuflect except to the Real Presence in the tabernacle (or on the altar during mass), so that is an error if people just do it from habit w/out the tabernacle present. At my church we have occasional reminders in our bulletin with an explanation.

We are supposed to bow to the altar because of the holy relics of saints beneath every Catholic altar. If someone is bowing to the presider’s chair then they are confused or possibly poorly catechized. This would not be corrected merely by moving the altar around or changing the orientation of the priest during the liturgy.

I continue to bow before entering the pew because I have Christ in the forefront of my thoughts; it is He who I bow/genuflect to and nothing else.

I will do this for the rest of my life whether or not some folks see this as “irreverant.”