Turn the Other Check

[Augustine3]

How do we differentiate when to turn the other check and when to defend ourselves or others?

God bless,

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

From what I have read and from advice I’ve received from priests regarding my own situation in life, I believe that the principle of harm can be applied here. If the person you have an issue with is willing to try and change things and is repentant of their behaviour, then we are obliged to forgive as God asks from us. However, if the person persists in their behaviour which is damaging to us, then we are free to distance ourselves from that person and protect our wellbeing. We are still asked to forgive them by not desiring revenge and not seeking justice, but we do so by leaving that person in God’s hands and praying for them. We are not asked to be doormats and put up with abuse. I guess it all depends on the situation and people involved, so discernment is key.

As for defending ourselves from others, the same applies. The church has never prohibited self-defense. If I kill a person because I am defending my life (or the life of another) I am still commiting a mortal sin (murder) but am not necessarily culpable.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

The martyrs were filled with Grace and Love and allowed themselves to be killed,St Stephen looked up to heaven and asked God to forgive those who were stoning him to death.

 

[NotWorthy]

The martyrs were filled with Grace and Love and allowed themselves to be killed,St Stephen looked up to heaven and asked God to forgive those who were stoning him to death.

Yes, but they defended themselves. They were in a “Civil Court” and defended themselves civilly.

The Church does allow the defense of one and the defense of others. Do you sit and watch a man rape a woman, for example?

 

[Augustine3]

I was watching a movie about the life of St Charbel, it showed the Turks capturing the Maronite monks as prisoners and leading them to exile. Some other monks came to their rescue using rifles and belts (the enemy had the same weapons). St Charbel believed they were wrong. The monks argued Jesus defended Himself when the servant struck him.

I guess the case with the monks we may say “blessed are they that suffer for the sake of righteousness” but on the other hand were the monks just supposed to watch their brothers being taken away as prisoners? I’m still confused?

God bless,

 

[Crumpy]

Good question. Martyrdom. When are we called to martyrdom? There’s “white” martydom.

A “martyr” is a “witness.”

“White” martyrdom is when our life is not required of us, like when we “march for life” in Washington DC.

“Red” martyrdom is when our life is taken for the faith.

Are we expected to give our life for our faith?

The greatest prayer in Judaism is Dt 6:4 which Jesus expands in Mark 12:28ff

“Hear O Israel the LORD is God, the LORD alone. You shall love the LORD with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and all your strength.”

Judaism asserts that loving God with all our soul means being willing to die for our faith.

I think it was Rabbi Akiba, in Jesus’s time or thereabouts, who was martyred by having his flesh torn off with a metal rake. He is said to have recited the SHEMA (“Hear”) as he was being tortured.

It is not recorded that Jesus recited the Shema on the cross.

During world war 2, it is reported that the Jews went to the gas chambers reciting the shema.

 

[Crumpy]

turning the other cheek is supposed to have some symbolic meaning. When you do that, the person is striking you with the other side of his hand. I don’t recall what that is supposed to signify.

But, pacifism?

While we are being insulted and maybe tortured, we are showing respect that our oppressor, too, is made in the image and likeness of God, and that we will not disrespect that. We are not showing weakness, but faith in God.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Jesus was the LAMB that was taken to the slaughter

If we hopefully are like lambs,we wont react like a wolf with gnarling teeth when we are threatened or attacked.

The devil is the roaring lion,do you want to be a roaring lion ready to devour people if they come close,or close enough to want to do you harm.

If someone strikes you,you should be filled with love grace and mercy and forgive and weep for his sins and pray for his forgiveness,and to show him love ,God says you can even offer for him to strike you again if he wants on the other cheek.

Have you read St Lawrence?

St Lawrence The Martyr
Feastday: August 10th

 Saint Lawrence was one of seven deacons who were in charge of giving help to the poor and the needy. When a persecution broke out, Pope St. Sixtus was condemned to death. As he was led to execution, Lawrence followed him weeping, "Father, where are you going without your deacon?" he said. "I am not leaving you, my son," answered the Pope. "in three days you will follow me." Full of joy, Lawrence gave to the poor the rest of the money he had on hand and even sold expensive vessels to have more to give away.

 The Prefect of Rome, a greedy pagan, thought the Church had a great fortune hidden away. So he ordered Lawrence to bring the Church's treasure to him. The Saint said he would, in three days. Then he went through the city and gathered together all the poor and sick people supported by the Church. When he showed them to the Prefect, he said: "This is the Church's treasure!"

 In great anger, the Prefect condemned Lawrence to a slow, cruel death. The Saint was tied on top of an iron grill over a slow fire that roasted his flesh little by little, but Lawrence was burning with so much love of God that he almost did not feel the flames. In fact, God gave him so much strength and joy that he even joked. "Turn me over," he said to the judge. "I'm done on this side!" And just before he died, he said, "It's cooked enough now." Then he prayed that the city of Rome might be converted to Jesus and that the Catholic Faith might spread all over the world. After that, he went to receive the martyr's reward.  Saint Lawrence's feast day is August 10th.

—when we are filled with much love and Grace we easily forgive our enemies and pray for them and we wont retaliate but submit to Gods will ,even if it be torture or stoning etc

 

[NotWorthy]

—when we are filled with much love and Grace we easily forgive our enemies and pray for them and we wont retaliate but submit to Gods will ,even if it be torture or stoning etc

First of all, I do so love the story of St. Laurence. I’d love to go to my death as joyfully as he does.

But what about coming to the defense of the defenseless?

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Just to add,in the Gospel before Jesus says turn the other cheek,he say"Do not resist an evil person"

Maybe like how St Lawrence or Jesus even let themselves be a sacrifice,we must not resist either,God knows the temptation and trial that would come our way and then we will deal with it.

Maybe Jesus is talking to each individual,with our own souls,In the news some guy attacked an elderly mother,afterward she told the news she forgives him and doesnt want him charged,Maybe her sons wouldve felt differently about him attacking their mothere.

But anyway,if someone jumped on my mother while we were on the street perhaps,i think the point Christ is making is that like the example of Lawrence or the Saints is that we are to be full of Love,mercy and forgiveness,not to seek retaliation or revenge ,but to be in a state to offer our hand of mercy ,help ,love and forgiveness to our oppresses.

And if that person was jumping my mum maybe i would stand in her way and seek to let the aggressor attack me instead and take out his rage on me instead of my hapless mum.

Christ took the punishment of sin on Himself so i hear ,instead of hapless man suffering under the yoke of death,sin and Satans oppression.

Sorry,God Bless