Turning Girls into Boys?

[Charlemagne_II]

smh.com.au/world/indians-pay-surgeons-to-turn-girls-into-boys-20110629-1gpnf.html

This article raises the question of whether natural law ethics finally makes sense, even to homosexuals. I’d like to know how many homosexuals would defend the action of surgically turning a girl into a boy, since many homosexuals have already turned themselves into the opposite sex so far as sodomy is concerned, or when they have a sex change operation.

Is what they are doing in India moral or immoral? Why? Is it madness or perfectly sane?

 

[sw85]

smh.com.au/world/indians-pay-surgeons-to-turn-girls-into-boys-20110629-1gpnf.html

This article raises the question of whether natural law ethics finally makes sense, even to homosexuals. I’d like to know how many homosexuals would defend the action of surgically turning a girl into a boy, since many homosexuals have already turned themselves into the opposite sex so far as sodomy is concerned, or when they have a sex change operation.

Is what they are doing in India moral or immoral? Why? Is it madness or perfectly sane?

I believe it is an outrage against natural law.

The human sexual configuration points toward the end of procreation. So, too, does sexual desire – because sex is desirable, people will have it more often, facilitating procreation.

If desire is disordered, the solution is not to change the configuration, which merely subverts the natural fecundity of the human person. It is to correct the disordered desire (if possible) or to live a life of prayerful abstinence (if not).

 

[mcteague]

smh.com.au/world/indians-pay-surgeons-to-turn-girls-into-boys-20110629-1gpnf.html

This article raises the question of whether natural law ethics finally makes sense, even to homosexuals. I’d like to know how many homosexuals would defend the action of surgically turning a girl into a boy, since many homosexuals have already turned themselves into the opposite sex so far as sodomy is concerned, or when they have a sex change operation.

Is what they are doing in India moral or immoral? Why? Is it madness or perfectly sane?

The fact that you compare homosexuality to the mutilation of children’s bodies, and that you confuse transexuals with homosexuals, only shows that you don’t understand anything about homosexuality.
This post is just appalling in it’s ignorance. Can you really believe that being gay would make someone think mutilation of some Childs body is acceptable?

If you are really saying that your adherence to “natural law” would make it impossible to accept homosexuality without also accepting this, then I can only offer my pity.
And suggest that you broaden your philosophical and religious outlook.

This is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on CAF. Which is saying alot.

 

[severus68]

smh.com.au/world/indians-pay-surgeons-to-turn-girls-into-boys-20110629-1gpnf.html

This article raises the question of whether natural law ethics finally makes sense, even to homosexuals. I’d like to know how many homosexuals would defend the action of surgically turning a girl into a boy, since many homosexuals have already turned themselves into the opposite sex so far as sodomy is concerned, or when they have a sex change operation.

Is what they are doing in India moral or immoral? Why? Is it madness or perfectly sane?

This article has nothing to do with homosexuality. Further, homosexuality is not the same as transexualism.

What is being done is another issue altogether.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

mcteague

This post is just appalling in it’s ignorance. Can you really believe that being gay would make someone think mutilation of some Childs body is acceptable?

So you don’t see that someone who gets a sex change operation is mutilating his own body?

It’s consistent with the natural law to do so?
**
This is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on CAF.**

I’m glad you think so. That is one of the stated purposes of my life: to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

 

[severus68]

mcteague

This post is just appalling in it’s ignorance. Can you really believe that being gay would make someone think mutilation of some Childs body is acceptable?

So you don’t see that someone who gets a sex change operation is mutilating his own body?

It’s consistent with the natural law to do so?
**
This is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on CAF.**

I’m glad you think so. That is one of the stated purposes of my life: to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

Perhaps you should reread the article you referred to in your post.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

severus

**So you don’t see that someone who gets a sex change operation is mutilating his own body?

It’s consistent with the natural law to do so?**

Why don’t you answer these questions?

If it’s insane and against the natural law for Indian parents to change the sex of their child because it is an act of mutilation (I assume you agree with that, if not, let us know), why isn’t the sex change operation of a transexual adult also against the natural law?

Please kindly stop asking me to reread the article.

 

[mcteague]

“Natural Law”, particularly in Catholicism, is kind of a loaded term. So I prefer to stay away from it. But if want to say that certain things on their face seem unnatural, wrong, or perhaps are indications of some problem, I won’t disagree.
If you ask me; “what did I do today.” And I say; " I went out for coffee, picked up my dry cleaning, went to the post office, and then came home and chopped my penis off". I can’t criticize you in saying; “Well that just don’t seem natural”.

And I would agree that gender transition surgery is probably often an indication of some problem the person has. It is in my view a mistake to call everything personal choice. I think this is an unfortunate side affect of identity politics. And I would even go as far as to say that there are time when sexual orientation can also be an indicator of some problem. But it is not in of itself a proof of mental illness. Just As I think many of the comments I hear here, by people who might simply appear pious to you, might have serious emotional problems.
So I am not going to say that those things never seem unnatural. My criticism of you and “natural law” philosophy is that it ignores the fact that there is a vast amount of variety in nature. I also don’t believe that you don’t see the difference between what is done in the article and when a person does to themselves. Also as has been pointed out transsexuality and homosexuality are completely different things and really should not be compared as you have done.

 

[OraLabora]

smh.com.au/world/indians-pay-surgeons-to-turn-girls-into-boys-20110629-1gpnf.html

This article raises the question of whether natural law ethics finally makes sense, even to homosexuals. I’d like to know how many homosexuals would defend the action of surgically turning a girl into a boy, since many homosexuals have already turned themselves into the opposite sex so far as sodomy is concerned, or when they have a sex change operation.

Is what they are doing in India moral or immoral? Why? Is it madness or perfectly sane?

Transsexualism and homosexuality is not the same. The former is gender identity and the latter is sexual orientation.

The ethics of massive reconstructive surgery to treat a psychological condition certainly are debatable. But please read up on the topic, as others have said you’ve betrayed your ignorance on both homosexuality and gender identity.

 

[severus68]

severus

**So you don’t see that someone who gets a sex change operation is mutilating his own body?

It’s consistent with the natural law to do so?**

Why don’t you answer these questions?

If it’s insane and against the natural law for Indian parents to change the sex of their child because it is an act of mutilation (I assume you agree with that, if not, let us know), why isn’t the sex change operation of a transexual adult also against the natural law?

Please kindly stop asking me to reread the article.

There are few born with both male and female organs etc. Decisions are made as to which gender the child should be, sometimes wrongly. Some surgery may be needed. Some find themselves in the wrong body so to say, perhaps from mistakes made in the past. Their lives may be living hells. Having a sex change operation in such a case, would not in my opinion be wrong. It certainly is not mutilation. Tell me and show me where the Church says it would be wrong. It is not homosexuality which is same sex attraction.

The article has nothing to do with your issue. It is about parents wanting to change he sex of their babies for mainly economic reasons.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

mcteague

**Also as has been pointed out transsexuality and homosexuality are completely different things and really should not be compared as you have done. **

They are both perversions of the natural law. People who defend these perversions need to have their own heads examined.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

severus
**
The article has nothing to do with your issue. It is about parents wanting to change he sex of their babies for mainly economic reasons. **

Good grief, do you think I don’t know that?

So you think changing a baby’s sex for economic reasons is o.k.?

Remember, this thread is about what morality is: is it merely a declaration of the way things are, or the way things ought to be?

Sit up and pay attention!

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Ora

**But please read up on the topic, as others have said you’ve betrayed your ignorance on both homosexuality and gender identity. **

Very Benedictine of you!

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Ora

**But please read up on the topic, as others have said you’ve betrayed your ignorance on both homosexuality and gender identity. **

You might point to me where the Church has approved sex change operations for any reason.

 

[severus68]

severus
**
The article has nothing to do with your issue. It is about parents wanting to change he sex of their babies for mainly economic reasons. **

Good grief, do you think I don’t know that?

So you think changing a baby’s sex for economic reasons is o.k.?

Remember, this thread is about what morality is: is it merely a declaration of the way things are, or the way things ought to be?

Sit up and pay attention!

Did anyone say it was ok? Perhaps you should be clear as to what thread you want to start instead of posting a link to an article on a different issue.

In view of your manner of posting and lack of politeness to say the least. I am done with this thread. Thank you.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

At any rate, this is the link which contains the Church’s position on sex change operations.

ncbcenter.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=1039

Clearly, what is being done in India is immoral from the Church’s point of view. Just as clearly, except in cases where a person is born with both male and female sex organs, trans-gender operations of any other type are immoral.

That would of course include homosexuals who want to change their gender. And that would include the homosexual man who wants to play the female partner to another man.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

severus

**In view of your manner of posting and lack of politeness to say the least. I am done with this thread. Thank you. **

Good bye. Why do I have the feeling you’ll be back?

 

[EasterJoy]

This article raises the question of whether natural law ethics finally makes sense, even to homosexuals. I’d like to know how many homosexuals would defend the action of surgically turning a girl into a boy, since many homosexuals have already turned themselves into the opposite sex so far as sodomy is concerned, or when they have a sex change operation.

Is what they are doing in India moral or immoral? Why? Is it madness or perfectly sane?

I’m sure of this much: ask a homosexual that question, and the most charitable thought he’ll be able to manage is that you have gone off the deep end.

Way, way off, into the deep, deep waters of seriously nuts.

 

[Pug]

smh.com.au/world/indians-pay-surgeons-to-turn-girls-into-boys-20110629-1gpnf.html

This article raises the question of whether natural law ethics finally makes sense, even to homosexuals. I’d like to know how many homosexuals would defend the action of surgically turning a girl into a boy, since many homosexuals have already turned themselves into the opposite sex so far as sodomy is concerned, or when they have a sex change operation.

Is what they are doing in India moral or immoral? Why? Is it madness or perfectly sane?

Perhaps what you are asking is, "Do people who appear by their outward behavior to hold to a different moral system than your average Catholic, do these people think turning ordinary girls into boys via surgical alteration is immoral?

I think that is a hard question to ask of a Catholic. Unless I *fully *understand the moral system of that other person, I don’t think I can predict what outcome they will arrive at for any particular moral situation. I understand my own moral system the best.

My *guess *is that they would be appalled by the action, since the average person in this country is appalled by it. My overall impression of people who identify themselves as homosexual is that they seem very much into being left as they are and not being forced to change (like maybe by therapy?), so perhaps they would always remain appalled by what happens to those ordinary girls in India, thinking of the sex reassignment as a forced change, so they would disapprove, even if the rest of society somehow decided it wasn’t all that bad to do that to the girls.

Again, this is guesswork, since I don’t have a nice list of moral principles that all homosexual persons work from (and I can’t imagine that there is one).

 

[OraLabora]

Ora

**But please read up on the topic, as others have said you’ve betrayed your ignorance on both homosexuality and gender identity. **

You might point to me where the Church has approved sex change operations for any reason.

You’re skidding off the road.

I did not promote sex-change operations.

I pointed out that homosexuality and transsexualism are two completely different, and unrelated, disorders.

What you say is like saying heart disease and cancer are both perversions of good health. While that may be true, the treatments are completely different.