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taylorc
Guest
I enjoy paranormal state. I’ve never watched A Haunting though. Is it fiction or real?
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pentecostbaby
Guest
A Haunting is supposed to be real … and yes, it does make me proud to be Catholic. Most of the ones where stuff really goes away - those are the ones where they get a priest involved.
I don’t watch it anymore. I pray to St. Michael every night, and since then I’ve gotten far less inclined to have anything to do with things that seem even vaguely evil (I can’t, for example, get through all but the most banal Lovecraft).
Seriously, though - for those of you like dotcom who don’t believe it: demons ARE real. They do exist; they possess people and infest places.
All it takes is one run-in with a possessed person to know this. I saw one once … a guy next to my friends and me in traffic (interestingly: all three of us, at the time, non-practicing Catholics). I took one look, turned to the driver, and said, “As soon as the light turns, floor it.”
He asked why.
“Next to us,” I said, without looking over.
They both looked, and they both knew immediately what I meant - and these are two people that would have laughed in your face if you ever asked them if they believed in demons. We floored it; the guy chased us and we lost him after taking several turns going very fast downtown. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it’s true.
Don’t have anything to do with the occult. I’ve heard terrible stories about ouija boards (and had really bad experiences with them); my priest got my husband to help him torch some tarot cards last week (imagine walking to the back of the church to see that going on
). But to paraphrase C.S. Lewis: you can make two mistakes about demons. You can refuse to care about them at all (i.e., think they don’t exist), or you can be obsessed with them.
Just say a St. Michael prayer!
I don’t watch it anymore. I pray to St. Michael every night, and since then I’ve gotten far less inclined to have anything to do with things that seem even vaguely evil (I can’t, for example, get through all but the most banal Lovecraft).
Seriously, though - for those of you like dotcom who don’t believe it: demons ARE real. They do exist; they possess people and infest places.
All it takes is one run-in with a possessed person to know this. I saw one once … a guy next to my friends and me in traffic (interestingly: all three of us, at the time, non-practicing Catholics). I took one look, turned to the driver, and said, “As soon as the light turns, floor it.”
He asked why.
“Next to us,” I said, without looking over.
They both looked, and they both knew immediately what I meant - and these are two people that would have laughed in your face if you ever asked them if they believed in demons. We floored it; the guy chased us and we lost him after taking several turns going very fast downtown. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it’s true.
Don’t have anything to do with the occult. I’ve heard terrible stories about ouija boards (and had really bad experiences with them); my priest got my husband to help him torch some tarot cards last week (imagine walking to the back of the church to see that going on
). But to paraphrase C.S. Lewis: you can make two mistakes about demons. You can refuse to care about them at all (i.e., think they don’t exist), or you can be obsessed with them.Just say a St. Michael prayer!
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dotcomrefugee
Guest
No, demons cannot infest a place.
They can’t. Also, I’ve got all sorts of bridges in the Brooklyn area that are PRICED TO MOVE!
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beckycmarie
Guest
On what authority do you say that demons cannot infest a place?
On second thought, I don’t think I want to engage this argument, which is a non argument where it comes to Church teaching.
The “Gnashing of Teeth” thread is coming to mind. . .
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dotcomrefugee
Guest
On what authority do you say that demons can infest a place?
In addition, how would I keep said demons out of my house? Perhaps Billy Mays would have a product to keep them out?
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stbruderklaus
Guest
Ah, the combination of radical hubris and invincible ignorance… what a lovely combination.
The witness of centuries of Church clergy, including specifically Exorcists who are trained to deal with such phenomena, have written thousands of accounts of this kind of activity. Thousands of laity have born first hand witness to the phenomena. The Scriptures recount similar events.
But I think I will take the advise of an earlier poster, and leave you to your remarkably confident position based on your tremendous lack of knowledge.
The witness of centuries of Church clergy, including specifically Exorcists who are trained to deal with such phenomena, have written thousands of accounts of this kind of activity. Thousands of laity have born first hand witness to the phenomena. The Scriptures recount similar events.
But I think I will take the advise of an earlier poster, and leave you to your remarkably confident position based on your tremendous lack of knowledge.
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Sam_Maloney
Guest
I don’t watch these, I think most of the people on them have overactive imaginations.
Yet I think they deserve a respectful hearing. It’s like with the UFO folks: at least 99.9% are easily explainable, but that makes it all the more important to look closely at that last .1%.
Worth pointing out that the Church teaches that we go one of two places after death: hell or heaven [purgatory could be described as a suburb of heaven, or a rest stop on the road there-- no one in purgatory has to worry about that other place].
So if anything is hanging around some old Inn, it isn’t the ghost of a civil war soldier.
Yet I think they deserve a respectful hearing. It’s like with the UFO folks: at least 99.9% are easily explainable, but that makes it all the more important to look closely at that last .1%.
Worth pointing out that the Church teaches that we go one of two places after death: hell or heaven [purgatory could be described as a suburb of heaven, or a rest stop on the road there-- no one in purgatory has to worry about that other place].
So if anything is hanging around some old Inn, it isn’t the ghost of a civil war soldier.
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stbruderklaus
Guest
Sam,
First off, let me go on the record as not endorsing this show as a legitimate source for evaluating this subject… for many of the reasons you note.
I do think they have found some authentic demonic activity… but they usually fail to add proper theological perspective to those activities. I’m sure it’s not the producer’s intention, but of the shows I’ve seen, the only real solutions that ever get recorded (i.e., the phenomena stops, and they re-interview the people some time later and find out that it’s still stopped) are when they have a priest involved in a Christian exorcism.
I tend to agree about your point about the destination of human souls… though I know there is a lot of debate in Christian circles (including Roman… perhaps especially among Romans) on this whole phenomena of ghosts. I find the theological debate interesting, but from a practical perspective, the only substantiated and authentic “hauntings” I’ve been called to work with, have shown demonstrably demonic influence. I’ve never encountered a situation that reflected a human soul in a haunting, though I know that some reputable Roman investigators seem to infer that they have.
My opinion, for what it’s worth… I don’t think humans souls after death have power in themselves to re-enter this world, since they are either judged saved or damned at the time of their passing. However, demons, angels, and God Himself do have power to manifest in this world, and I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that human souls have appeared in this world based on their power; i.e., for the evil or damned, the demonic may enable them to manifest, or for the blessed, God may enable them to manifest. Either way, it seems to me, that deducing the source of the manifestation will either reveal a diabolical or heavenly root cause… and we should respond appropriately.
Grace and peace.
First off, let me go on the record as not endorsing this show as a legitimate source for evaluating this subject… for many of the reasons you note.
I do think they have found some authentic demonic activity… but they usually fail to add proper theological perspective to those activities. I’m sure it’s not the producer’s intention, but of the shows I’ve seen, the only real solutions that ever get recorded (i.e., the phenomena stops, and they re-interview the people some time later and find out that it’s still stopped) are when they have a priest involved in a Christian exorcism.
I tend to agree about your point about the destination of human souls… though I know there is a lot of debate in Christian circles (including Roman… perhaps especially among Romans) on this whole phenomena of ghosts. I find the theological debate interesting, but from a practical perspective, the only substantiated and authentic “hauntings” I’ve been called to work with, have shown demonstrably demonic influence. I’ve never encountered a situation that reflected a human soul in a haunting, though I know that some reputable Roman investigators seem to infer that they have.
My opinion, for what it’s worth… I don’t think humans souls after death have power in themselves to re-enter this world, since they are either judged saved or damned at the time of their passing. However, demons, angels, and God Himself do have power to manifest in this world, and I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that human souls have appeared in this world based on their power; i.e., for the evil or damned, the demonic may enable them to manifest, or for the blessed, God may enable them to manifest. Either way, it seems to me, that deducing the source of the manifestation will either reveal a diabolical or heavenly root cause… and we should respond appropriately.
Grace and peace.
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dotcomrefugee
Guest
Do they have a demonic Shamwow?
Because seriously, if you have any evidence, a Mr. James Randi has a million dollars for you.
Because seriously, if you have any evidence, a Mr. James Randi has a million dollars for you.
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stbruderklaus
Guest
You better be careful, sparky-- the blasphemous and the incredulous have a strange habit of being handed over to circumstances that teach them better. For my part, I’m finished corresponding with you.
I hope you’ll be able to find a priest when you need one.
I hope you’ll be able to find a priest when you need one.
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coolduude
Guest
Why do you take this so ignorantly?
Please explain yourself.
I have to agree with stbruderklaus on this one. You better watch yourself. :tsktsk:
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Et_Cetera
Guest
This show is pretty ridiculous. dotcom, your post with the face in hand made me laugh out loud.
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dotcomrefugee
Guest
Yeah, and I got 5 points for it. Apparently, pointing out double standards and logical fallacies in posters’ arguments isn’t taken kindly to here.
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Et_Cetera
Guest
No, it most certainly isn’t.Yeah, and I got 5 points for it. Apparently, pointing out double standards and logical fallacies in posters’ arguments isn’t taken kindly to here.
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