TV over the last 40 years and morality

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Very, very strange that anyone would know a little ditty from 1816.
Not strange at all if you are a student of music. Plus I’m sure you know several tunes from even earlier than that… Twinkle for example. Or anything you sing at Mass, rather.
You’ve proved part of my point, the last 40 years have seen movies and TV shows turn into propaganda pieces. If you want real dialogue with real facts and real people then watch 60 Minutes or Meet the Press or a real investigative report.
Why the last 40 years? Why not the last 50? 100? 300? I’m not trying to debunk your point, I’m questioning your use of seemingly random time period since I know for a fact people were just as seedy, drug addicted, and crass in the 40s as they are today. Innocence was no more present 41 years ago in media than it is today, in fact I would say that films and commercials and other media products form the 40s, 50s, and 60s, were WAY more propaganda-y than anything today.
The media is controlled by people whose first concern is making money, closely followed by making sure the TV stations, newspapers, magazines and radio stations they own publish articles and stories that promote their point of view. Period.
This has and always will be the case. Luckily there are 800+ different “points of view” and we can readily change between them. What is wrong with writing or creating based on your point of view and then presenting it to the public? Suddenly because your material is popular or widely accepted and broadcast it must now be perfectly and uniformly unbiased? Is not what you want or expect out of the Media simply your own point of view, with it’s own biases? We grow and learn by combining experiences, by taking some of one thing some of something else, and combining them to make our own ideas, or own points of view.

Frankly except for certain positions, the church did not pay very well, a lot of famous songs we know, that we hear in commercials, that we listen to in “good” television programming, classical ditties, and all later derivatives were composed in a state of “heresy” where if the original composer was identified they would have been burned at the stake, and they did so just to make money, to survive, and by surviving they produced the Ordinary or Proper that you sing today.

It has been written that Beethoven thought he was a God, some have written that he thought even higher than that, that he was “more perfect” than His image, that his productions were unexpected and of higher quality. Are you going to angrily shut off the Ninth Symphony now every time it comes up at Christmas?

It used to be a sin to write certain musical intervals in either sacred or secular music, they were considered “immoral” they were thought to represent the devil. Even hearing it was thought to corrupt the soul and create a disparity. Soon after the popular trend in music was to make music ONLY using these intervals, ONLY… We went from literally burning someone at the stake for writing, WHIPPING someone to a bloody pulp for accidently singing in error, to creating music using ONLY the things that were hated in less than 150 years. Today you can’t tell one from another, though if you know the song “Maria” from West Side Story then you know this interval well.

This is just as heated a topic, and what I just mentioned took HUNDREDS of years to finally settle.

I use music because it is what I know, other arts have fared similarly. I’m sure you can find examples of oppressed writers, painters, and inventors. I’m sure that the thousands if not hundreds of thousands of executed Russians or Germans or anyone else for that matter simply had “immoral” points of view according to some, and that those who endured the iron rod to eventually make greatness were just the lucky ones.

“Damaging morals” is and has always will be an individual thing. If someone cursing on television, someone being “loose”, someone being an “alcoholic” on a 48" TV compromises morals then the problem is not with the content but with the person viewing it. My morals are intact, your morals are intact, and I’m sure we’ve both been exposed to a variety of immoral things. What appears on TV does not matter if you have the right mindset, so the focus should be on education, not on censorship. A child burns his hand on the stove, do you remove the stove from your house or do you educate the child on the dangers of the hot burner?

This is just another topic that in possibly as little as ten years will be forgotten and supplanted with some other art fad, like painting wrists on cardboard or something. Soon we will be fussing about the morals of driving whilst resting an elbow on the vehicle’s arm rest. If you want to make it something different, take the whole picture, take the whole line of art from its very beginnings to now. What is popular has and always will change, society as of now is progressing more and more to instant gratification, so the jokes and vulgarity in television will be getting more blunt and to the point. Years ago people had nothing to do and hours to listen, so they could hide the seedy bits in hours of poetry, playwriting, or music.
 
In the past, people didn’t become disillusioned; a few deviant, pervert, “pushing the envelope” types caused it. The average person did not write TV shows, the average person did not produce TV shows. And TV does not reflect reality today, with the evidence being the garbage that’s on it. How many of you reading this are actually - in real life - as dysfunctional as the fantasy people you see on TV?

After Walt Disney died, his brother couldn’t take up the slack, so the company was purchased by an outsider who cared only about power and money.

Our society just needs to throw their TVs in the trash and not listen to the propaganda. It’s not art. Definitely not.

There was no cultural revolution, there was a Sex WITHOUT LOVE Revolution.

Peace,
Ed
Perhaps it’s because I have, all my life, been in a lower class environment, but I see that level of dysfunction and worse every day.
 
How many of you reading this are actually - in real life - as dysfunctional as the fantasy people you see on TV?
So I suppose you sleep on separate twin beds with your wife, expect her to cook dinner every day, only wear dresses? The point is not to necessarily be realistic as it is to be relatable.

I pass by drunkards and drug addicts every day, people who’ve been homeless since they were kids? Are they products of mainstream media? I’m in the National Guard, I have a senior NCO who is most definitely an alcoholic, divorced twice, seems like he’s straight out of a movie. He’s definitely not a “product of mainstream media”. I’m pretty sure there was more rampant drug use 70 years ago than in the last 40 years.

Dysfunction is all around us, what makes the difference in where you choose to see it. Do you see the drug addict on TV and complain, write to the producer, etc? What do you do when you see a drug addict in real life?

Do you look in a mirror and, hating what you see, destroy the mirror instead of fixing the causes of your distaste?

Everyone did not grow up in communities that were 95% functional (I think as the term you used Ed) with moms and dads and aunts and uncles. People grow up in all varied circumstances.

I’m suprised you mentioned Walt Disney, and that you’re not one of the alarmist haters of him because of anti-semitism or any other reasons that people poke holes in his work.

My mother was one of those people. I’m the guy with scars on his back because me and my sister were “caught” watching Aladdin one day. I’m the guy who was pulled out of school when it was time to read To Kill a Mockingbird, who was never allowed to watch anything “Anthropomorphic” (Lion king etc) because it was of the devil. Snow White? Sleeping Beauty? Prominent witchcraft. Nearly everything you listed on the Sci-Fi forum as “good” was witchcraft and banned as I grew up, Star Wars, Star Trek, the lot of it.

Lost Sheep is right, ‘Cecilia’ is by Simon in Garfunkle. The truth is I’m probably the only music student in the world who’s knowledge and appreciation of music started after highschool, rather than being a lifelong appreciation, so I have to study a little harder than the next person. Why? Well try knowing a lot of music when you are allowed to listen to only a few Christian and Gospel tapes growing up, no radio, no after-school groups.

I don’t know everything, and I have a lot of questions. What I’m not ignorant to is the fact that ‘dysfunction’ as you say is and always has been everywhere. I became very aware of this fact in my parents Volkswagon van in 1995 when, as my mother drove into oncoming traffic, I was told that “If I don’t believe in Jesus then I will die here today”. To say that all evil in the world, all immorality, is cause only by mainstream media in the last 40 years is a severe understatement and a waste of breath in my opinion. It is all far more reaching, far more real, and in far more correctable means than sitting at home angry about the failing show “Two and a Half Men”
 
So I suppose you sleep on separate twin beds with your wife, expect her to cook dinner every day, only wear dresses? The point is not to necessarily be realistic as it is to be relatable.

I pass by drunkards and drug addicts every day, people who’ve been homeless since they were kids? Are they products of mainstream media? I’m in the National Guard, I have a senior NCO who is most definitely an alcoholic, divorced twice, seems like he’s straight out of a movie. He’s definitely not a “product of mainstream media”. I’m pretty sure there was more rampant drug use 70 years ago than in the last 40 years.

Dysfunction is all around us, what makes the difference in where you choose to see it. Do you see the drug addict on TV and complain, write to the producer, etc? What do you do when you see a drug addict in real life?

Do you look in a mirror and, hating what you see, destroy the mirror instead of fixing the causes of your distaste?

Everyone did not grow up in communities that were 95% functional (I think as the term you used Ed) with moms and dads and aunts and uncles. People grow up in all varied circumstances.

I’m suprised you mentioned Walt Disney, and that you’re not one of the alarmist haters of him because of anti-semitism or any other reasons that people poke holes in his work.

My mother was one of those people. I’m the guy with scars on his back because me and my sister were “caught” watching Aladdin one day. I’m the guy who was pulled out of school when it was time to read To Kill a Mockingbird, who was never allowed to watch anything “Anthropomorphic” (Lion king etc) because it was of the devil. Snow White? Sleeping Beauty? Prominent witchcraft. Nearly everything you listed on the Sci-Fi forum as “good” was witchcraft and banned as I grew up, Star Wars, Star Trek, the lot of it.

Lost Sheep is right, ‘Cecilia’ is by Simon in Garfunkle. The truth is I’m probably the only music student in the world who’s knowledge and appreciation of music started after highschool, rather than being a lifelong appreciation, so I have to study a little harder than the next person. Why? Well try knowing a lot of music when you are allowed to listen to only a few Christian and Gospel tapes growing up, no radio, no after-school groups.

I don’t know everything, and I have a lot of questions. What I’m not ignorant to is the fact that ‘dysfunction’ as you say is and always has been everywhere. I became very aware of this fact in my parents Volkswagon van in 1995 when, as my mother drove into oncoming traffic, I was told that “If I don’t believe in Jesus then I will die here today”. To say that all evil in the world, all immorality, is cause only by mainstream media in the last 40 years is a severe understatement and a waste of breath in my opinion. It is all far more reaching, far more real, and in far more correctable means than sitting at home angry about the failing show “Two and a Half Men”
Wow, well said.
 
Very, very strange that anyone would know a little ditty from 1816.

You’ve proved part of my point, the last 40 years have seen movies and TV shows turn into propaganda pieces. If you want real dialogue with real facts and real people then watch 60 Minutes or Meet the Press or a real investigative report.

The media is controlled by people whose first concern is making money, closely followed by making sure the TV stations, newspapers, magazines and radio stations they own publish articles and stories that promote their point of view. Period.

I am for censorship in the case of any TV show that damages the morals of those watching it, like Two and a Half Men.

And I will complain. fcc.gov/guides/obscenity-indecency-and-profanity

Peace,
Ed
I hope you mean self censorship. I can make up my own mind what to watch and not watch, you can’t make that decision for anybody else but yourself.
 
I hope you mean self censorship. I can make up my own mind what to watch and not watch, you can’t make that decision for anybody else but yourself.
Exactly-I find it amazing that so many people are ignorant of the simple concept of TURN IT OFF. When you do that-you have censored it, it is no longer coming into your home.

All this wasted energy being outraged over something that NOBODY is forced to pay any attention to whatsoever.
 
Found this poem on the internet; there are several variations of it going around:

Ode to the 23rd Channel

The TV is my shepherd, I shall want.
It makes me lie down on the sofa.
It leads me away from Scriptures and the Rosary.
It destroys my soul.
It leads me in the path of sex and violence,
for the sponsor’s sake.
Yea, though I walk in the shadow of my
Catholic responsibilities,
there will be no interruption,
For the TV is with me.
It’s cable and remote, they control me.
It prepares a commercial before me in
the presence of worldliness;
It anoints my head with Humanism,
My coveting runneth over.
Surely laziness and ignorance shall
Follow me all days of my life:
And I shall dwell in the house
Watching TV forever.

~Author Unknown

I printed this up and have it on my fridge as a reminder to self, hubby, and our boys to keep TV watching to a minimum and make sure what’s being viewed on the tube is appropriate.
 
There are these two wonderful inventions that can solve that entire problem: the remote and the off switch. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone’s head and forcing them to consume what the media is producing.
No, but it has become a habit for too many. And the changes were very gradual. If we had gone from Leave it to Beaver to Two and a Half Men overnight during the 1960s, there would have been a great outcry.

TV has become the Ministry of Propaganda and everyone needs to be aware of that - including Catholics. It shows immorality as fun and OK.

ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-renounce-culture-that-disguises-falsehood-as-truth

Peace,
Ed
 
No, but it has become a habit for too many. And the changes were very gradual. If we had gone from Leave it to Beaver to Two and a Half Men overnight during the 1960s, there would have been a great outcry.

TV has become the Ministry of Propaganda and everyone needs to be aware of that - including Catholics. It shows immorality as fun and OK.

ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-renounce-culture-that-disguises-falsehood-as-truth

Peace,
Ed
and again-what is stopping you from turning it off? What is stopping anyone??

My cousin has 5 children who have never seen any of the shows you mentioned. They grew up on a steady diet of old sitcoms on DVD-I Love Lucy, the Waltons, Little House, the Andy Griffith show and yes, Leave it to Beaver. They bring their friends from school over and they ALL watch and enjoy. They know there are other shows out there, but they also know that those shows are objectionable to their family’s values and they do not watch them-even when visiting friends. They also have other interests besides TV like sports and music so they aren’t consuming that much media anyway. That was a CHOICE their family made.

I’m a huge Netflix fan myself, I use it to make my own choices about what comes into my house instead of the networks. ALL of those great shows of the past are out there for the taking.

We have a choice and we need to be responsible adults and make it-not moan and complain about how awful everything is.
 
So I suppose you sleep on separate twin beds with your wife, expect her to cook dinner every day, only wear dresses? The point is not to necessarily be realistic as it is to be relatable.

I pass by drunkards and drug addicts every day, people who’ve been homeless since they were kids? Are they products of mainstream media? I’m in the National Guard, I have a senior NCO who is most definitely an alcoholic, divorced twice, seems like he’s straight out of a movie. He’s definitely not a “product of mainstream media”. I’m pretty sure there was more rampant drug use 70 years ago than in the last 40 years.

Dysfunction is all around us, what makes the difference in where you choose to see it. Do you see the drug addict on TV and complain, write to the producer, etc? What do you do when you see a drug addict in real life?

Do you look in a mirror and, hating what you see, destroy the mirror instead of fixing the causes of your distaste?

Everyone did not grow up in communities that were 95% functional (I think as the term you used Ed) with moms and dads and aunts and uncles. People grow up in all varied circumstances.

I’m suprised you mentioned Walt Disney, and that you’re not one of the alarmist haters of him because of anti-semitism or any other reasons that people poke holes in his work.

My mother was one of those people. I’m the guy with scars on his back because me and my sister were “caught” watching Aladdin one day. I’m the guy who was pulled out of school when it was time to read To Kill a Mockingbird, who was never allowed to watch anything “Anthropomorphic” (Lion king etc) because it was of the devil. Snow White? Sleeping Beauty? Prominent witchcraft. Nearly everything you listed on the Sci-Fi forum as “good” was witchcraft and banned as I grew up, Star Wars, Star Trek, the lot of it.

Lost Sheep is right, ‘Cecilia’ is by Simon in Garfunkle. The truth is I’m probably the only music student in the world who’s knowledge and appreciation of music started after highschool, rather than being a lifelong appreciation, so I have to study a little harder than the next person. Why? Well try knowing a lot of music when you are allowed to listen to only a few Christian and Gospel tapes growing up, no radio, no after-school groups.

I don’t know everything, and I have a lot of questions. What I’m not ignorant to is the fact that ‘dysfunction’ as you say is and always has been everywhere. I became very aware of this fact in my parents Volkswagon van in 1995 when, as my mother drove into oncoming traffic, I was told that “If I don’t believe in Jesus then I will die here today”. To say that all evil in the world, all immorality, is cause only by mainstream media in the last 40 years is a severe understatement and a waste of breath in my opinion. It is all far more reaching, far more real, and in far more correctable means than sitting at home angry about the failing show “Two and a Half Men”
I ask you to not promote the anti-semitism idea about Walt Disney.

“There is some dispute whether the spirit of tolerance prevailed at the studio, but of the Jews who worked there, it was hard to find any who thought Walt was an anti-semite. Joe Grant, who had been an artist, the head of the model department, and the storyman responsible for Dumbo along with Dick Huemer, declared emphatically that Walt was not an anti-Semite. 'Some of the most influential people at the studio were Jewish,” Grant recalled, thinking no doubt of himself, production manager Harry Tytle, and Kay Kamen, who once quipped that Disney’s New York office had more Jews than the Book of Leviticus."

From page 455 of Walt Disney - The Triumph of the American Imagination by Neal Gabler. On the cover: “Winner Los Angeles Times Book Prize for Biography” and on the back cover: “USA Today Biography of the Year.”

Peace,
Ed
 
No, but it has become a habit for too many. And the changes were very gradual. If we had gone from Leave it to Beaver to Two and a Half Men overnight during the 1960s, there would have been a great outcry.

TV has become the Ministry of Propaganda and everyone needs to be aware of that - including Catholics. It shows immorality as fun and OK.

ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-renounce-culture-that-disguises-falsehood-as-truth

Peace,
Ed
Aware, yes.
Push for better shows with great family values, yes.
Censor the shows for all based on your own personal views, NO, NO, NO.
 
I hope you mean self censorship. I can make up my own mind what to watch and not watch, you can’t make that decision for anybody else but yourself.
On the contrary, as a Catholic community, we need to understand the poison we allow into our minds every day. We need to understand what it is. And why people are promoting immorality. Our decision must be based on a complete, not partial understanding.

ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-renounce-culture-that-disguises-falsehood-as-truth

amazon.com/Noise-Media-saturated-Dominates-Dismantles-Families/dp/1932927948

amazon.com/The-Marketing-Evil-Pseudo-Experts-Corruption/dp/1581824599

We need this knowledge.

bible.cc/hosea/4-6.htm

Peace,
Ed
 
Exactly-I find it amazing that so many people are ignorant of the simple concept of TURN IT OFF. When you do that-you have censored it, it is no longer coming into your home.

All this wasted energy being outraged over something that NOBODY is forced to pay any attention to whatsoever.
Imagine Catholics whose only time with God is an hour at Church on Sunday and then compare that to the amount of time they allow immoral and false information/entertainment into their minds every day. I’m writing this for everybody.

ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-renounce-culture-that-disguises-falsehood-as-truth

Peace,
Ed
 
On the contrary, as a Catholic community, we need to understand the poison we allow into our minds every day. We need to understand what it is. And why people are promoting immorality. Our decision must be based on a complete, not partial understanding.

ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-renounce-culture-that-disguises-falsehood-as-truth

amazon.com/Noise-Media-saturated-Dominates-Dismantles-Families/dp/1932927948

amazon.com/The-Marketing-Evil-Pseudo-Experts-Corruption/dp/1581824599

We need this knowledge.

bible.cc/hosea/4-6.htm

Peace,
Ed
And once again, as a mature, intelligent, grounded in my faith Catholic adult woman, I can discern what I can and can not watch on TV if I so choose to be entertained. I also can make the same decision for my family based on educating myself as a parent. YOU do not get to decided what we can watch in the privacy of our own living room. You and me may very well come to the same conclusion on certain tv shows being inappropriate for my child and my family to watch. But you sir do not have the authority to make that decision for me and advocate that you can censor my entertainment options, nor do you have the authority to suggest that you can make that decision for any other adult as well.
 
and again-what is stopping you from turning it off? What is stopping anyone??

My cousin has 5 children who have never seen any of the shows you mentioned. They grew up on a steady diet of old sitcoms on DVD-I Love Lucy, the Waltons, Little House, the Andy Griffith show and yes, Leave it to Beaver. They bring their friends from school over and they ALL watch and enjoy. They know there are other shows out there, but they also know that those shows are objectionable to their family’s values and they do not watch them-even when visiting friends. They also have other interests besides TV like sports and music so they aren’t consuming that much media anyway. That was a CHOICE their family made.

I’m a huge Netflix fan myself, I use it to make my own choices about what comes into my house instead of the networks. ALL of those great shows of the past are out there for the taking.

We have a choice and we need to be responsible adults and make it-not moan and complain about how awful everything is.
No - not moan and complain - but to reveal and make known how bad the situation is on TV. That is the requirement for being responsible - full knowledge.

Peace,
Ed
 
And once again, as a mature, intelligent, grounded in my faith Catholic adult woman, I can discern what I can and can not watch on TV if I so choose to be entertained. I also can make the same decision for my family based on educating myself as a parent. YOU do not get to decided what we can watch in the privacy of our own living room. You and me may very well come to the same conclusion on certain tv shows being inappropriate for my child and my family to watch. But you sir do not have the authority to make that decision for me and advocate that you can censor my entertainment options, nor do you have the authority to suggest that you can make that decision for any other adult as well.
Please give me the post where I specifically said that I “… have the authority to suggest that you can make that decision for any other adult as well.”

Peace,
Ed
 
I ask you to not promote the anti-semitism idea about Walt Disney.
I by no means meant that I agree with or propagate the idea. I know he had very quiet political views and was very anti-communist, suspicious of unions etc. I’m not suggesting that he -actually- was a fascist or anti-semite.

You seem to be so concerned with the point that media has magically devolved to this in the “last 40 years”. Has media not always been propagandist? Did William Randolph Hearst not exist? The Spanish American war? Selling war bonds “for our troops” in WWII? Any number of films produced of the period. Anti-Red films and TV announcements showing blatant violence and hatred against people because of their political beliefs? People were just as charged about this as they are today, the only change is what society has grown to accept. That was the problem in 1960 and that is the problem now. “Society has grown to accept ____ and that is wrong” this will always be the case, Society will grow, and someone will not like it.

On top of that you’re fighting propaganda with propaganda, you post links to books that scream “propaganda” before I can even scroll down. One doctrine with another. What’s to say yours is better? What’s to say yours is “more Catholic” than someone elses interpretation? Of course mass killing for entertainment is unacceptable? But when is mass killing in media ‘actually’ mass killing? In fact, the last few movies I’ve seen that involved, as you say, “mass killing” had a very strong and important message, ‘Saints and Soldiers’ for one.

I would not have our society any other way. Where one person, whether he is religious or not, can create something and put it on display, and where I can walk by it or flip by it and see it and either decide to stop and look/watch or continue on my way is a very powerful freedom not many people in this world have. Its a freedom that certain people in the United States did not have at one point.

Thankfully gone are the days where someone could burst into your home and drag you off for what you’re watching or listening to, or bring you up in front of a court and half Walt Disney testify that you are “Unamerican”. Whether they wear a badge, a suit, or a crucifix does not matter.
 
No - not moan and complain - but to reveal and make known how bad the situation is on TV. That is the requirement for being responsible - full knowledge.

Peace,
Ed
Honestly, Ed-I admire your passion on this issue but I don’t see the need here. I’ve been here long enough to know that the posters here have sufficient intelligence and most have enough grounding in the Catholic faith to be able to determine what is objectionable. People here are fully capable of finding the remote and changing the channel or turning the thing off altogether.
 
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