TV: PJII and Archbishop Romero

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Watched a bit of the JPII story on tv tonight. I saw a tiny bit on Archbishop Romero. Does anyone know the real story behind this Archbishop… his dealings with the pope… his martyrdom?

Thank you…
 
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frogman80:
Watched a bit of the JPII story on tv tonight. I saw a tiny bit on Archbishop Romero. Does anyone know the real story behind this Archbishop… his dealings with the pope… his martyrdom?

Thank you…
Yes I would.

:crying:

The movie was reviewed and approved my Pope Benedict XVI.

The movie showed Pope JPII blaming himself ( his pride ) for the death of Bishop Oscar Romero. After all…Bishop Romero did go to PopeJPII for help…but instead of help he got a scolding…and was told to be obedient. So sad.
He was alone. The people were alone. In 1980 the war claimed the lives of 3,000 per month, with cadavers clogging the streams, and tortured bodies thrown in garbage dumps and the streets of the capitol weekly. With one exception, all the Salvadoran bishops turned their backs on him, going so far as to send a secret document to Rome reporting him, accusing him of being “politicized” and of seeking popularity.

Read more
I don’t blame PopeJPII but I do feel extreme sadness for Bishop Romeros feeling of desolation and desertion.
 
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contemplative:
I don’t blame PopeJPII but I do feel extreme sadness for Bishop Romeros feeling of desolation and desertion.
In fact, I ache so much for him I will be finding and reading as much as I can about Bishop Romero. Somehow I really understand the strong faith he must have had to go to the end…the end of his life…standing at the altar holding Holy Communion in his hands. God Bless him always.
 
Thread drift, I know. But, speaking of the situation in El Salvador in the early '80’s today is the 25th anniversary of the murder of the four American churchwomen. Silent paryer for them, Archbishop Romero, and all the victims of the civil war.:gopray:
 
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contemplative:
In fact, I ache so much for him I will be finding and reading as much as I can about Bishop Romero. Somehow I really understand the strong faith he must have had to go to the end…the end of his life…standing at the altar holding Holy Communion in his hands. God Bless him always.
Someday he will be Saint Oscar Romero, IMHO, and he will have forgiven Saint John Paul the Great.
 
I believe they are together today in heaven, and have forgiven each other for misunderstandings and miscommunications.

Oscar Romero was a true martyr for the Faith.
 
Oscar Romero gave his last homily on March 24. Moments before a sharpshooter felled him, reflecting on scripture, he said, “One must not love oneself so much, as to avoid getting involved in the risks of life that history demands of us, and those that fend off danger will lose their lives.”
Who was Oscar Romero?

Bishop Oscar Romero is my hero in last evening’s movie.
 
Romero already understood the church is more than the hierarchy, Rome, theologians or clerics—more than an institution—but that night he experienced the people as church. “God needs the people themselves,” he said, “to save the world . . . The world of the poor teaches us that liberation will arrive only when the poor are not simply on the receiving end of hand-outs from governments or from the churches, but when they themselves are the masters and protagonists of their own struggle for liberation.”
“If some day they take away the radio station from us . . . if they don’t let us speak, if they kill all the priests and the bishop too, and you are left a people without priests, each one of you must become God’s microphone, each one of you must become a prophet.”
“You can tell the people that if they succeed in killing me, that I forgive and bless those who do it. Hopefully, they will realize they are wasting their time. A bishop will die, but the church of God, which is the people, will never perish.”
Who was Oscar Romero?

http://photobucket.com/albums/y188/ginnyroc/th_romero.jpg
 
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contemplative:
The movie was reviewed and approved my Pope Benedict XVI.
Do you have a source for this?

I had heard that the movie that will be shown on Sunday was backed by an organization close to the Vatican (the implication was Opus Dei), and that some were promoting it behind the scenes as being approved by the Vatican, as opposed to last night’s movie, which, then, would not have been (approved, that is).

Peace,
 
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TableServant:
Do you have a source for this?

Peace,
Benedict said “Pope John Paul II,” which CBS will broadcast Dec. 4 and Dec. 7, provided an important service in spreading the message about the life and works of the late pope.

“I believe this film constitutes the latest example of the love that the people had for Pope Wojtyla and their desire to remember him, to see him again and to feel him close,” he said, referring to his predecessor by his Polish surname, in remarks to the audience at the end of the film. Read more

I believe a couple Catholic online news websites had the same info.
 
Let’s try this.
I believe the beginning of last evening’s Pope JPII movie said that it was based on written accounts of the Pope’s life. That comment is questionable.
Where are the writings that say Pope JPII recognized he had a problem with pride. Where are the writings that say exactly how Pope John Paul II encountered Bishop Romero?
 
Oddly though, ABC’s film comes closest to serious treatment of one major issue that confronted the pope, the “liberation theology” espoused by Latin American clergy members hoping to help the poor in their struggles against large landowners.

His own political outlook forever colored by Communist persecution of the church in his homeland, the pope scolds El Salvador’s Archbishop Oscar Romero: “Your teaching of liberation theology is a mistake. In fact, it’s not a theology at all. It’s Marxism. You are splitting the church. I won’t allow it.” oas.signonsandiego.com/RealMedia/ads/Creatives/default/empty.gif Shortly after, as depicted in the film, Romero was gunned down in his homeland while saying Mass. The incident is omitted from the CBS film.
Read more

It will be interesting to see how the CBS movie treats this part of Pope JPII’s life…if at all.
Originally Posted by contemplative
The movie was reviewed and approved my Pope Benedict XVI.
My mistake…Pope Benedict XVI reviewed the CBS movie…not the ABC movie…I wonder why one and not the other.
 
Liberation Theology

BILL BLAKEMORE:
When the Pope went to Central America, we asked him on some of those trips, flying into these countries, “What about liberation theology?” And he’d get very stern, and he would say, “It depends on whose liberation theology. If we’re talking about the liberation theology of Christ, not Marx, I am very much for it.”

NARRATOR: In Poland the Pope fought communism with clarity and grace. But in Latin America he stumbled. In the 1980s the region was gripped by violent civil wars between despotic rightwing regimes and Marxist revolutionaries. Many Catholic priests caught up in the political struggle were apostles of a new “liberation theology.” The Pope’s repression of their movement revealed a rigid side of his character in this lush tropical landscape.

The first confrontation came early in his papacy with the embattled archbishop of El Salvador, Oscar Romero. Romero was sympathetic to the liberation theologians who claimed that for too long the Catholic Church had aligned itself with the rich and the powerful. They believed the Church’s real place was with the poor and its most important mission was to bring about social change.

ROBERT STONE, Novelist: The conditions that existed most egregiously in Central America made it impossible for a person to be a Christian or even completely a human being. People were being denied their humanity, hence they were being denied their capacity for experiencing a God.

CAROLYN FORCHE, Poet: Monsignor Romero acknowledged the injustice of poverty openly. He condemned institutional violence openly. Monsignor Romero said, “The person you are killing is your brother. You have you do not need to obey an order that is contrary to the commandments of God. Refuse. Lay down your arms. You don’t have to do this. I beg you, I beseech you, I order you, stop the repression.”

Bishop THOMAS GUMBLETON, Auxiliary Bishop of Detroit: The reports that went back to Rome about Romero were that he was too influenced by the revolutionary movement, and there was danger that this country could become communist or Marxist, and if he wasn’t stopped, it would be a total disaster for the church.

Archbishop Romero did not accept that interpretation of the whole movement. He saw it really as the poor rising up to try to change their lives in order to be freed of the oppression and the injustice that they were suffering from and

_ but the other Bishops denounced him to Rome.

GIANCARLO ZIZOLA: [through interpreter] When Romero went to the Vatican for his meeting with the Pope, he was forced to wait many days before he was received because the Vatican did not want him to speak to the Pope. And this caused him a great deal of pain.

MARIA LOPEZ VIGIL, Activist, Author: [through interpreter] I saw him in a state of shock. The first thing that he said to me was, “Help me to understand why I’ve been treated by the Holy Father in the way that he treated me.”

pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/pope/etc/script.html
 
GIANCARLO ZIZOLA: [through interpreter] When he finally met the Pope, he showed him photographs of murdered priests and mutilated peasants, and the only response Romero got from the Pope was that Romero had to find an agreement with the government.

MARIA LOPEZ VIGIL: [through interpreter] I am never going to forget it’s in my mind the gesture that Monsignor Romero made when he was explaining that to me. He did this gesture. “Look,” he said, “that the Holy Father says that the archbishopric must get along well with the government, that we must enter into a dialogue. And I was trying to let the Holy Father understand that the government attacks the people. And if I am the pastor of the people, I cannot enter into good understanding with this government.” But the Holy Father was insisting.

I am still seeing Monsignor Romero making that gesture like wanting to things to converge that cannot converge.

Rev. JON SOBRINO, Liberation Theologian: [through interpreter] When Romero told him that the that the church was being persecuted in El Salvador, John Paul said to him “Well, well, don’t exaggerate it.” And he said to Romero, “You have to be very careful with communism.” The result was that Monsignor Romero was very upset. He left the Vatican in tears. It was a sad interview, very sad.

** There is more…at**

pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/pope/etc/script.html
 
Romero was sympathetic to the liberation theologians who claimed that for too long the Catholic Church had aligned itself with the rich and the powerful. They believed the Church’s real place was with the poor and its most important mission was to bring about social change.
pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/pope/etc/script.html

Why do I so believe this?

I see this happening in my own community sometimes. It is an unspoken thing…it just happens and don’t ever feel good about it.
 
The first thing that he said to me was, “Help me to understand why I’ve been treated by the Holy Father in the way that he treated me.”

I am never going to forget it’s in my mind the gesture that Monsignor Romero made when he was explaining that to me. He did this gesture. “Look,” he said, “that the Holy Father says that the archbishopric must get along well with the government, that we must enter into a dialogue. And I was trying to let the Holy Father understand that the government attacks the people. And if I am the pastor of the people, I cannot enter into good understanding with this government.” But the Holy Father was insisting.
I am still seeing Monsignor Romero making that gesture like wanting to things to converge that cannot converge.
One month after his disappointing visit with the Pope, while he was celebrating Mass in San Salvador, Archbishop Romero was murdered at the altar. The assassins were known to be members of a rightwing death squad. Those close to Romero said that he always knew that one day he would be killed.
 
He moved very quickly to close many institutions that had become hotbeds of liberation theology seminaries, for example, schools, particular churches, things where there had become clusters of sort of Marxism within the church. These were closed. Their personnel were transferred to the Catholic versions of Devil’s Island, to all kinds of remote places out of the region.

The Pope then moved in a whole new cadre of administrative and religious personnel to come in and replace these people. So he did a complete clean sweep of the system in Latin America and put his own men in who were responsive and answerable to the Pope. He just cleaned them out.
I know there are many here on CAForums who won’t like what I have to say…
but
All that clean sweeping and moving around business…while in the USA …you know what was going on.
 
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