TV: PJII and Archbishop Romero

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JKirkLVNV:
Now, see, Contemplative, we have this in common. He’s long been my hero.
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:yup:
 
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contemplative:
I know there are many here on CAForums who won’t like what I have to say…
but
All this clean sweeping and moving around business…while in the USA …you know what was going on.
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John Paul was right in cleaning out those seminaries.
 
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bones_IV:
John Paul was right in cleaning out those seminaries.
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bones IV, bones IV,
I don’t think you understood me. Try it again.

I guess I meant all ‘that’ clean sweeping…referring to all the sweeping in El Salvador while the sex abuse scandal was in full swing and seemingly gay proponents were being installed in the hierarchy of the Church.
 
The movement that came to be called “Liberation Theology” began with the awareness that it is blasphemous to care for people’s souls while ignoring their needs for food, shelter and human dignity. As Jesus participated in the suffering of the poor, and proclaimed to them the good news of justice and freedom, so must today’s church engage in the struggle for justice in this world.
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A Concise History of Liberation Theology
 
I cannot explain some of this (I loved the old Holy Father so much and Archbishop Romero died an absolutely heroic death and I DO think he was a martyr, which is what John Paul II said of him), but maybe this: Popes do not micromanage the Church (as is evidenced by HE Cardinal Roger Mahoney’s continued occupation of the See of Los Angeles) unless they absolutely have to do so and further, unless something stands out glaringly.

Now bear with me, because the abuse of the children was a horror on the lines of anything else history can serve up as an example of horror: the abuse scandal came in waves, did it not, larger and larger, but with troughs in the middle? I think the old Holy Father had a hard time believing that priests could do such things and that bishops could behave so irresponsibly. I don’t think he was aware that it was so incredibly large or was going to get so incredibly large and I think the concept of it was entirely alien to him. He might not have had difficulty crediting that Nazis would do such a thing to children, but priests? He was also pretty old and extremely infirm when the final tsunami of it hit.

Communism, on the other hand, was not at all alien to him, he’d lived through it, he knew it first hand. If he thought he saw it rising up in the Church, in the Church’s name, I can see him taking off the velvet glove before he smashed it flat. I don’t think Archbishop Romero BELIEVED in liberation theology, I think he was sympathetic to WHY it had arisen and that he might have wanted the same outcomes that liberation theology sought (but who doesn’t want justice for the poor? Who doesn’t want people “disappeared?”). I could be wrong.
 
I’m so sick of people in the Church supporting liberation theology it stinks. John Paul II was also very committed to the cause of the poor and suffering. That’s why he had in 1984 “Instruction on Certain aspects of the Theology on Christian Freedom” and in 1986 “Instruction on Christian Freedom and Liberation” written.
Liberation theology leads you to believe that the Gospel message of Jesus Christ is supposed to alleviate all human suffering that it wasn’t about salvation. Pope Paul VI when warning against the dangers of liberation theology, pointed out, that “the Church connects but never equates human liberation with salvation in Jesus Christ.”
 
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JKirkLVNV:
I cannot explain some of this (I loved the old Holy Father so much and Archbishop Romero died an absolutely heroic death and I DO think he was a martyr, which is what John Paul II said of him), but maybe this: Popes do not micromanage the Church (as is evidenced by HE Cardinal Roger Mahoney’s continued occupation of the See of Los Angeles) unless they absolutely have to do so and further, unless something stands out glaringly.

Now bear with me, because the abuse of the children was a horror on the lines of anything else history can serve up as an example of horror: the abuse scandal came in waves, did it not, larger and larger, but with troughs in the middle? I think the old Holy Father had a hard time believing that priests could do such things and that bishops could behave so irresponsibly. I don’t think he was aware that it was so incredibly large or was going to get so incredibly large and I think the concept of it was entirely alien to him. He might not have had difficulty crediting that Nazis would do such a thing to children, but priests? He was also pretty old and extremely infirm when the final tsunami of it hit.

Communism, on the other hand, was not at all alien to him, he’d lived through it, he knew it first hand. If he thought he saw it rising up in the Church, in the Church’s name, I can see him taking off the velvet glove before he smashed it flat. I don’t think Archbishop Romero BELIEVED in liberation theology, I think he was sympathetic to WHY it had arisen and that he might have wanted the same outcomes that liberation theology sought (but who doesn’t want justice for the poor? Who doesn’t want people “disappeared?”). I could be wrong.
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I understand that Romero did not BELIEVE in liberation theology but rather hoped the best for the poorest of people. Liberation theology was only a means to get to a peaceful point for all.
I understand your explaination but it does not help me understand the methodical gay influx into the US hierarchy. Perhaps that was beyond Pope JPII’s sight. During the El Salvador crisis…a different type of liberation was happening here. It was not just the gay agenda …it has been a number of deteriorations. Now it seems our new Pope Benedict is left with the mess to clean up.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Um, careful, Contemplative, that’s a link to the book by Leonardo Boff. Last I heard, he hived off so far from the Church that any resemblance between him and a Catholic was purely accidental on his part.
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Oops. I am getting careless. Plus I don’t know everyone and everything…need to be more careful. :o
 
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axolotl:
Thread drift, I know. But, speaking of the situation in El Salvador in the early '80’s today is the 25th anniversary of the murder of the four American churchwomen. Silent paryer for them, Archbishop Romero, and all the victims of the civil war.:gopray:
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Warning: Very Graphic Picture of people praying over 4 slain churchwomen.
thedagger.com/archive/elsal/elsal5a.html
 
Whoa… 😃

Contemplative… thank you for the replies, but bunches and bunches of quotes don’t help my confusion much. It is too much information to go through.

Was Archbishop Romero reprimanded by the pope?
Was Romero doing something wrong?
What was he accused of?
If he wasn’t doing anything wrong who passed this mis-info to the pope?
Did the movie portray the real events truthfully?

Just tell me in your own words… much less to wade through! 😉
 
contemplative said:
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It will be interesting to see how the CBS movie treats this part of Pope JPII’s life…if at all.

My mistake…Pope Benedict XVI reviewed the CBS movie…not the ABC movie…I wonder why one and not the other.
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I was gonna say if he had reviewed it, than why didnt he correct some things.
 
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frogman80:
Was Archbishop Romero reprimanded by the pope? It appears to me that Pope John Paul II largely ignored Archbishop Romero’s plea for help…help for the the persecuted Church in El Salvador…help because priests had been murdered…help for mutilated peasants.
Was Romero doing something wrong? In reading what is available to me it seems that Romero really was not doing anything wrong. From what I understand Romero did not espouse to liberation theology. He recognized the movement as a rising up of poor people to change their life circumstances.
What was he accused of? Romero was accused of politicizing rather than sticking to Church teachings.
If he wasn’t doing anything wrong who passed this mis-info to the pope? All but one of the bishops that worked under him penned private letters to the Vatican denouncing Romero’s politicizing.
Did the movie portray the real events truthfully? I can’t be certain. The only clear idea revealed in the movie was the part where Pope JPII rebuffs Romero. The part where Pope JPII kicks himself for being proud and possibly being a part in Romero’s death is not yet clear to me. Pope JPII did appear to persecute Romero at their Vatican meeting. That was terrible. Here was a desperate man asking for help…just asking for help. Did Pope JPII blame himself and pride for playing a part in Romero’s death just one month after their meeting? This does seem questionable when I consider how Pope JPII treated the situation in El Salvador even after Romero’s death. My :twocents:
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I felt very strongly about this whole situation, I was terribly saddened by what happened to Bishop Romero and to all the religious who were in El Salvador during that time. I know that many here won’t like what I have to say, but it’s the truth, many of the assassins and members of the death squads in El Salvador were trained right here in the USA…at the School of the Americas in Georgia. I know people don’t like to know these things, especially during times of war, but it happened, many, many dictators and thier soldiers have been trained there…and they are trained to kill civilians not military. I don’t believe in Liberation Theology and I don’t think Bishop Romero did either…what I do believe in is fighting oppression…social justice my friends…during that time and today the mighty dollar was/is worth more than a human life…and the US was getting their share of that dollar. For many, many years there have been priests, nuns, social justice activists, etc. trying to close down that school, I wonder why?
 
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Lexee15:
but it’s the truth, many of the assassins and members of the death squads in El Salvador were trained right here in the USA…at the School of the Americas in Georgia. I know people don’t like to know these things, especially during times of war, but it happened,
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Say it like it is.
I’ve read the stories and watched the videos…it is jaw dropping unbelievable…and to think this school is still in operation today…sick, sick, sick. :nope:
 
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