Tweets from a pro-choicer

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This is the thought experiment I can’t ever get a good answer to. What resources are you willing to put towards supporting these children? Many of these children are born to poor mothers, are you willing to put more social services in place? Why are women the focus of everything? Obviously there was a man involved, how is he to be held accountable? Women who get stiffed by the guy are left with the pain, the cost, and lost income (or even job). Abortions will not stop, legal or not; at least with them being legal they can be regulated. Roe vs Wade was not a specific legalization of abortion; it was a ruling that a person had a right to privacy in medical situations. You just have to look not more that a few decades when women could not make their own medical choices with out her husband signing off on it. Much like the much debated “Obama Care” there are items present in the ruling or law that are actually quite good and that people could agree are universally good.
 
You are on the Titanic and it’s going down. You are alone and have 2 life jackets. You put it on, and with one left you look around to see who should get it. You spot a pregnant woman with a 5 year old. What do you do?
You take yours off and save them both.

That’s the right answer but too often we are afraid of doing the right thing.

Anyone can make up a scenario of what about this, what about that, but the reality is is that 2 persons walk into an abortuary and only 1 comes out. The weaker one, the defenseless one, does not come out. Why can’t we help them both?

The scenario of ‘you are forced to choose’ is so contrived. Pro life people choose both.
Actually, if you do nothing at all, in a short amount of time a baby is born. It’s a lie to women to tell them that killing their baby helps them. That’s the lie.
 
PJH_74 said:
What resources are you willing to put towards supporting these children?
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See, there’s a very good conversation starter with your partner before you have sex. I as a woman, am taking on a LOT of risk by having sex with, as you list, pain, cost, and possible job loss. What do we require from our guy before we take on this kind of risk? Let’s have that conversation.
 
Will I will answer. If my mind was clear, I would pick the 1000 embryos.
Assuming I could believe they would live and not die in the process no matter what. If I chose the baby however I don’t think God would hold that against me. But this choice is not ever a real life choice. So it proves nothing.
 
PennyinCanada said:
I as a woman, am taking on a LOT of risk by having sex with, as you list, pain, cost, and possible job loss. What do we require from our guy before we take on this kind of risk? Let’s have that conversation.
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Unfortunately that conversation doesn’t happen many times…and honestly I don’t think you can base public policy on this happening, it’s just not going to happen in many cases.
 
What about smoking? Afaict, zsmoking among adults had declined from 56% in the 1960s to 16% today.

The ads and warnings they have put out about smoking, the negative or lack of portrayal in media, etc, have all combined to reduce smoking the point where smokers are considered to be very lowly creatures.

We didn’t go the now-discredited DARE route, we just laid out the facts and forbade the visually stunning (usually sexy) ads.

How about if we were to do that with sex? Make pre-marital sex uncool, stop “selling” sex, etc. We would have to do this carefully or people would get the wrong idea about marital sex, but I think we could do this.
 
Annie said:
How about if we were to do that with sex? Make pre-marital sex uncool, stop “selling” sex, etc. We would have to do this carefully or people would get the wrong idea about marital sex, but I think we could do this.
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Ummm… Cigarettes can kill you or easily shorten your life; they also make you smell pretty bad too. I’ve seen articles like this before, but here is one reference:

Millennial Sex

While younger generations are more accepting of premarital sex, they are actually sleeping around less.
 
When I was in the USAF one of my coworkers in the unit was an absolute pacifist. Which was strange in itself since we were both not only in the military but in an ICBM squadron. I would try to devise hypothetical scenarios wherein he would have no choice but to cause someone’s death, by action or inaction. He would never buy it. “You’re just trying to come up with something where I would have to kill someone or cause their death,” he said. “But I won’t do it.”
 
Annie said:
How about if we were to do that with sex? Make pre-marital sex uncool, stop “selling” sex, etc.
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False equivalence. Sexual desire is present regardless of whether or not it is encouraged by outside sources.
 
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From a completely secular point of view what is being human? Is it birth? No. Any animal would then be considered human. It is DNA, RNA, cellular structures, specific organs and appendages that make us human. Any unborn creature has the same DNA and features (though under development) of any living creature. Therefore if you go by that definition abortion is by all means murder, it would be the same as a thief killing you because he doesn’t want you to call the cops and take back what is rightfully yours (life) because what is yours is more valuable to him than your life (money time etc.)
 
susanbherald said:
In the other corner, you spot a frozen container labeled “1000 Viable Human Embryos.”
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What does it mean to be a “viable” human embryo? Also, even if the 1000 embryos in the freezer had been conceived naturally during sexual intercourse and had followed the normal course, what percentage of them would actually have survived? According to a recent article online, “Making Sense of Miscarriage Statistics”:
As many as 75 percent of fertilized eggs do not go on to result in a full-term pregnancy. This statistic includes both miscarriages and failed implantations that usually pass without the mother ever missing a period or knowing conception took place… Laboratory studies on IVF patients have found that a very large percentage of eggs harbor chromosome abnormalities. An older, widely-quoted study found that in natural cycles, about 22 percent of all conceptions never complete implantation. Considering such evidence, some scientists have speculated that if you factor in fertilized eggs that don’t implant along with pregnancies that end in miscarriage, around 70 percent to 75 percent of conceptions end up miscarrying.
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https://www.verywellfamily.com/making-sense-of-miscarriage-statistics-2371721

Under normal circumstances, would 75 percent of those 1000 embryos have died anyway?
 
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Annie said:
where smokers are considered to be very lowly creatures.
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Seriously? I never consider a person a “lowly creature” because they choose to smoke. That is contrary to Church teaching (dignity of every human person). Smoking is legal, it is not immoral (unless done to excess).
 
JimG said:
When I was in the USAF one of my coworkers in the unit was an absolute pacifist. Which was strange in itself since we were both not only in the military but in an ICBM squadron. I would try to devise hypothetical scenarios wherein he would have no choice but to cause someone’s death, by action or inaction. He would never buy it. “You’re just trying to come up with something where I would have to kill someone or cause their death,” he said. “But I won’t do it.”
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But…??? Not to derail, but why was he there? Was he trying to take the place of someone who would push the button?
 
Annie said:
No, I am a robot.
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Well. Let me explain it to you. First, a person’s body starts to change at around age 12, give or take a year. There are these chemicals in the body called hormones . . . .
 
Thorolfr said:
Under normal circumstances, would 75 percent of those 1000 embryos have died anyway?
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When you think about the odds, it’s remarkable that any of us are here at all.

Playing along with the thought experiment, and accepting what was discussed in the video up-thread: I save the child. For better or for worse, I take the moral risk and save the one who has the best chance of survival.

Similarly, this is a real-life situation: I have a relative who is an M.D. in a hospital. This person was occasionally in charge of the hospital’s blood bank. One of her responsibilities was to decide who, if there was a shortage of blood supplies, would get blood and who wouldn’t.

In other words, her job was to decide life and death. Granted, she had, I’m sure, a long list of protocols to follow and to my knowledge was never presented with a real life-and-death decision. But this was the decision she was prepared for and expected to make.
 
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Well, I didn’t know a good word for it, but smokers in the US get a lot of dirty looks and pointed comments.
 
on_the_hill said:
But…??? Not to derail, but why was he there? Was he trying to take the place of someone who would push the button?
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He was an electronics technician. There are a lot of people in an ICBM squadron besides those who would be responsible to push the button or turn the key. And SAC’s motto was “Peace is Our Profession.” He believed in peace. Everybody there saw their job as deterrence, not destruction.
 
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