Twilight and Vampires

[Emma_Grace]

latin_rite- Most of my post was directed toward early comments about vampires being evil. As if fictional characters are going to jump off the page and drag you to the devil. Fear of fiction is irrational.

The only comments I think I want to address to you is your uncompromising view on vampires and their traits and your demeaning comments about authors. As mythical creatures, there is no “canon” for vampires. Being fictional, vampires and their traits are determined solely by the author of a book or story. I consider anyone with published works more than a “wanna be”, and if you think you can do better, feel free to try the process yourself.
As with anything in life, you have the freedom to dislike Meyer’s slant on this genre. But to limit an author’s imagination to create a world they are building based on your specifications is censorship to the point of being totalitarian.

 

[GEddie]

OK, everybody, like I said, I don’t read the genre, so feel free to yell “shut up” if you want tp:

That said, I’d say anybody who can pull a being or class thereof out of his head is being creative, and should not be accused of uncreativity just because someone else dislikes the result. There is no “official manuscript” for vampiric fiction; it arose from folk tales over centuries and no doubt did a lot of evolving before hitting the novel market in the 1800s. Like every other genre, it is still evolving. Compare a mainstream novel from now to one from 1910, or modern science fiction to Jules Verne, or modern police fiction to Sherlock Holmes, etc. If it does not evolve, it dies, because the culture that birthed it has disappeared.

Before calling somebody else uncreative, try pulling the characters YOU like out of YOUR head and getting something published.

 

[WillieWonka]

"Most of my post was directed toward early comments about vampires being evil. As if fictional characters are going to jump off the page and drag you to the devil. Fear of fiction is irrational."

That’s a pretty good book idea.

 

[AmberDale]

I bet you guys don’t have such an issue with changing a folklore when it comes to faeries.
Some people think faeries are nice, sweet and gentle (Disney) others think they are vicious, evil, and mean (like from the Labyrinth)

I don’t understand the big deal about changing SOME things about vampires. Stephenie Meyer is NOT the only one to create “good” vampires. She’s not the only one who has had vampires try to live off of animals.

I think, deep down…the people have a problem with the sparkles. “Cue the music, Cue the Sparkles”

As a geek myself, I see many people dress up at conventions. Some are Trekkies, some Cosplaying Anime characters, others go as Faeries.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I think, deep down…the people have a problem with the sparkles. “Cue the music, Cue the Sparkles”

Exactly. That’s actually my only complaint about Meyer’s deviation.
I mean come on, sparkling? I’m still scratching me head as to where she got that idea. ;;;

As a geek myself, I see many people dress up at conventions. Some are Trekkies, some Cosplaying Anime characters, others go as Faeries.

I’ve been to a few small conventions and seen pictures and videos of bigger ones. Trekkies really do strike me as a rare thing to spot in such events. I mean I’ve seen people cosplay Star Wars and even Power Rangers but never anybody in an Enterprise uniform.

Faeries are more possible though but are you sure what you saw were faeries and not mahou shoujo (magical girl)?

 

[AmberDale]

Exactly. That’s actually my only complaint about Meyer’s deviation.
I mean come on, sparkling? I’m still scratching me head as to where she got that idea. ;;;

Yeah. I don’t know where she got that from either.

I’ve been to a few small conventions and seen pictures and videos of bigger ones. Trekkies really do strike me as a rare thing to spot in such events. I mean I’ve seen people cosplay Star Wars and even Power Rangers but never anybody in an Enterprise uniform.

Faeries are more possible though but are you sure what you saw were faeries and not mahou shoujo (magical girl)?

I’ve seen Klingons at GenCon (it’s a gaming convention, they also have a huge anime section now as well) for the Jail and Bail.

I suppose they could have been mahou shoujo I didn’t ask.

edit
I looked it up. While some could be considered “magical girl”, I’m pretty confident that the ones I saw were dark faeries.

 

[latin_rite]

Read my questions piece by piece genius. Don’t lump them all together simultaneously. And yes, you are imposing your opinion. That’s what criticisms do. Plus the fact that you like it up there on your “high horse” thinking that it lets you “see all that is wrong” tells me that you’re obviously in denial.

If you think someone critizing something is “imposing” their opinions…Then you’re just as much a drama queen as the "wigglewoggles you are obviously too untalented to write about. Besides if we were to live in some quasi retard world where critizing is imposing. how how am i imposing my opinions on you? you have no work to impose oneself onto.
And tell me. how am i in denial?

You know what, I think it’s you who doesn’t read people’s posts thoroughly. First you claim that the continuity of Star Trek has given it massive worldwide appeal and an awesome fanbase when the latter is clearly not awesome at all. Now you’re confusing Trekkies with the freaks you’re talking about? Where did that come from?

Besides far as I know, Star Trek has sunk into the category of Old Pop Culture.

You should. You’d give more well thought-out responses that way and wouldn’t skew people’s words.

Tell me where i have “skewed” peoples words? I might have said “someone” said something. because I couldn’t be bothered going back through posts to see who said what. Big deal. And what i said they said wasn’t skewed at all. Unlike you. who just straight out mis quote people in such a way that you either have to be dyslexic or a liar.

So as long as you continue to blatantly call something deviant uncreative because it’s not to your personal tastes then yes, you are narrow-minded. There’s a difference between saying I don’t like it cuz it’s not to my taste and saying it’s uncreative because it offends my tastes. What you’re doing is the latter.

You have been saying all along that the old traditional ( and much more creative) vampire is no longer creative. So you shot yourself in the foot there. And another sign of you lying or is it missunderstanding? what someone said. I never said that the new type of wiggle woggles are offencive to me where did i say it was offencive? why lie? Are you too stupid to stick to the truth. And not liking something or a way something is done. is not being narrow minded.

Take me for example. When it comes to zombies, I actually prefer the ones created via necromancy instead of some creepy mutant virus like they did with Resident Evil and goodness knows how many other zombie-survival movies. However, does that mean I’m going to label them as uncreative for having a different take on zombies?

No.

I simply just say, "Meh it’s cool I guess but just not my thing y’know?

Actually i find both good.

Eh, well I’m afraid you actually did.

Yes i did call them vampires. because in the movie they were vampires. I was answering your question as to
“Originally Posted by Lost Wanderer
I’d go as far as to bet that you wouldn’t care if the vampire was actually some human mutated by a virus (as in 30 Days of Night) as long as such vampires were just portrayed as inherently evil monsters that have no hope of redemption).”
If they were just people mutated by a virus then no they wouldn’t have been vampires. But i would still have liked the movie. I just wouldn’t have called them vampires.

If that’s your problem with “good” vampires then it’s not really the fact that they are vampires that you should be criticizing. You should be criticizing their character. You think all “good” vampires are emos or something? Rubbish.

Do i think these wiggle woggles are uncreative because they remind me of sickly emos? No. Its not only that. You know that… Why act stupid?

Then again, I’d equally bet that as long as such a vampire was “evil” it wouldn’t matter if that vampire looked more like an animal, had rows of teeth instead of just two fangs and spoke in a some guttural language, you’d still consider it a “creative” vampire wouldn’t you?

Depends on the story line. So how much are you betting. I would be a rich man if you paid up all the bets you have lost here.

The concept of turning something that was traditionally considered evil into some form of hero will always be new compared to old cliche villain archetypes and typical horror-gore scenarios.

Allways be considered new?? hmm maybe if you lacked imangination

 

[latin_rite]

Like I said, if you consider the idea of making vampires into one of the good guys as something as worn out and of no value then I actually feel the same way about the traditional “evil” vampire. I’ve seen it many times, from the typical corny count with the cape and the bats to the unsightly monstrosities that are always dripping blood and roaring like some sort of animal… ugh, please, give me something new before a regurgitate my last meal. .

Yes i would like to see something new too. Just not emo’s with fangs who run around thinking they are in a jane austen novel.

Yes you are glorifying them because you’re making them as if they were the perfect model that’s only worth following for people to be considered “creative” which is just downright snobbish if you ask me. Say you don’t like something because it’s not to your taste but from now on, refrain from whipping out the critics pen and calling the simple act of deviating from tradition “uncreative” simply because they’re not to your tastes. A real critic has varied tastes in case you didn’t know.

I call it uncreative. because they are uncreative. And talk of imposing… stop telling me what to think and say please. you’re being imposing and snobbish. ( and unlike you. i have proof that you’re being both.)
And emma grace. i was talking about how their characther is evil. Notthat are real creatures.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

If you think someone critizing something is “imposing” their opinions…Then you’re just as much a drama queen as the "wigglewoggles you are obviously too untalented to write about. Besides if we were to live in some quasi retard world where critizing is imposing. how how am i imposing my opinions on you? you have no work to impose oneself onto.
And tell me. how am i in denial?

You are criticizing every writer in existence who has chosen to defy your obsolete traditions that you cling so dearly to (which includes Meyer, myself, and who else who wishes people like you would stop telling people how to write). If anyone’s living in a quasi-retard world, it’s you if you think criticizing isn’t imposing. Isn’t criticizing the act of finding fault? If you find fault in something you’re automatically sending a signal to a person to remedy it. Thus, you are imposing your opinion. Period. Face it. You’re in denial.

Tell me where i have “skewed” peoples words? I might have said “someone” said something. because I couldn’t be bothered going back through posts to see who said what. Big deal. And what i said they said wasn’t skewed at all. Unlike you. who just straight out mis quote people in such a way that you either have to be dyslexic or a liar.

No, it’s either you don’t know how to read or are just too darn lazy to do it right.

You have been saying all along that the old traditional ( and much more creative) vampire is no longer creative. So you shot yourself in the foot there. And another sign of you lying or is it missunderstanding? what someone said. I never said that the new type of wiggle woggles are offencive to me where did i say it was offencive? why lie? Are you too stupid to stick to the truth. And not liking something or a way something is done. is not being narrow minded.

Actually i find both good.

Here’s you skewing my words right here. Seriously, quit projecting yourself. You’re not even a writer. What do you know about trends and archetypes? I did not criticize your precious traditional vampire because it went against my own personal tastes. I say such because it’s been used over and over again in gory horror movies that make me wanna puke. It’s the same way I grew tired of seeing dragons being nothing more than mindless monsters for air-headed knights to swing their tiny swords at. Furthermore, your second post is pathetic. The point is I don’t have to like something to consider it creative. Just because I’m no huge fan of cliche zombie-survival movies doesn’t mean I go as far as to say the whole idea of zombies being the products of some biological virus is uncreative.

Yes i did call them vampires. because in the movie they were vampires. I was answering your question as to
“Originally Posted by Lost Wanderer
I’d go as far as to bet that you wouldn’t care if the vampire was actually some human mutated by a virus (as in 30 Days of Night) as long as such vampires were just portrayed as inherently evil monsters that have no hope of redemption).”
If they were just people mutated by a virus then no they wouldn’t have been vampires. But i would still have liked the movie. I just wouldn’t have called them vampires.

Way to deploy the True Scotsman fallacy. You’re hopeless.

Do i think these wiggle woggles are uncreative because they remind me of sickly emos? No. Its not only that. You know that… Why act stupid?

No of course not, it’s because the mere fact that they’re not ‘evil’.

Depends on the story line. So how much are you betting. I would be a rich man if you paid up all the bets you have lost here.

Actually, shouldn’t you be ready to mail a check?

Allways be considered new?? hmm maybe if you lacked imangination

More proof of your incompetent inability to read. I said it will always be new compared to the old cliche archetypes.

Besides, are you saying that even if I were to create a character with various warlock-like abilities (such as curses, hexes, illusions, mind control, soul ripping) or vampire-themed powers (e.g. hypnotism, bat wings, shadow bat projectiles, shadow phasing), all the creativity I would pour into it would be for naught solely because I chose to portray them as anti-heroes seeking to redeem themselves?

Yeah that’s a logical and well thought-out criteria for you.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I call it uncreative. because they are uncreative. And talk of imposing… stop telling me what to think and say please. you’re being imposing and snobbish. ( and unlike you. i have proof that you’re being both.)
And emma grace. i was talking about how their characther is evil. Notthat are real creatures.

Again, I am not here to tell what to like or dislike. I am telling you to quit holding up your opinion like it’s the yardstick for all writers to measure up against if they ever wish to be considered creative.

Like I said, you’re not even a writer and whatever proof you have of me being snobbish I could give you just as much of proof of you being the same (if not, worse).

 

[latin_rite]

You are criticizing every writer in existence who has chosen to defy your obsolete traditions that you cling so dearly to (which includes Meyer, myself, and who else who wishes people like you would stop telling people how to write). If anyone’s living in a quasi-retard world, it’s you if you think criticizing isn’t imposing. Isn’t criticizing the act of finding fault? If you find fault in something you’re automatically sending a signal to a person to remedy it. Thus, you are imposing your opinion. Period. Face it. You’re in denial.

Yeah right. Regis and Philbert two of historys greatest imposing figures. I’m not telling writers how to write anything. I’m not saying that 'YOU MUST DO IT MY WAY!!!" Lest alone you. someone who has written nothing…I’m saying that those style of “vampires” * goes and wash the up chuck taste from my mouth are uncreative. Damn man. I don’t have to like everything That is written. I don’t have to say i like every thing that is written just so some wanna be writers won’t get his knickers in a knot. I’m sorry. But i’m not going to pretend i like something or stop voicing my opinion, just to keep over sensitive people like you happy.

No, it’s either you don’t know how to read or are just too darn lazy to do it right.

I’m too lazy:blush:

Here’s you skewing my words right here. Seriously, quit projecting yourself. You’re not even a writer. What do you know about trends and archetypes? I did not criticize your precious traditional vampire because it went against my own personal tastes. I say such because it’s been used over and over again in gory horror movies that make me wanna puke. It’s the same way I grew tired of seeing dragons being nothing more than mindless monsters for air-headed knights to swing their tiny swords at. Furthermore, your second post is pathetic. The point is I don’t have to like something to consider it creative. Just because I’m no huge fan of cliche zombie-survival movies doesn’t mean I go as far as to say the whole idea of zombies being the products of some biological virus is uncreative.

Way to deploy the True Scotsman fallacy. You’re hopeless.

Sigh Here is what i said or what you “quoted”( trying to quote out of context it seems.
And i say that because where i said “actually i find both good” was in responce to your question? *ones created via necromancy instead of some creepy mutant virus like they did with Resident Evil * )

“Originally Posted by latin_rite
You have been saying all along that the old traditional ( and much more creative) vampire is no longer creative. So you shot yourself in the foot there. And another sign of you lying or is it missunderstanding? what someone said. I never said that the new type of wiggle woggles are offencive to me where did i say it was offencive? why lie? Are you too stupid to stick to the truth. And not liking something or a way something is done. is not being narrow minded.”
Even in your previous post you said . “I say such because it’s been used over and over again in gory horror movies that make me wanna puke”.
And so what if i’m not awriter? You think you’re so wonderous that us mere mortals can’t find fault in your work? We’re suppose to shut and not say a word, because “we’re not even writers”? If you knew about " trends and archetypes" you would be a published writer. And who says i’m not a writer? I’m going to start writing a book right now. There. Now i’m awriter and i can now critize whom ever writings i like.

No of course not, it’s because the mere fact that they’re not ‘evil’.

O being pure evil is what gives them the edge over the emovamps or the mr darcy vamps. But it isn’t the only thing.

Actually, shouldn’t you be ready to mail a check?

Why? you haven’t “bet” a single thing correct yet.

More proof of your incompetent inability to read. I said it will always be new compared to the old cliche archetypes.

How can anything “always” be new. Please explain this new law of universe.

Besides, are you saying that even if I were to create a character with various warlock-like abilities (such as curses, hexes, illusions, mind control, soul ripping) or vampire-themed powers (e.g. hypnotism, bat wings, shadow bat projectiles, shadow phasing), all the creativity I would pour into it would be for naught solely because I chose to portray them as anti-heroes seeking to redeem themselves?

Like i said depends on the story.

 

[latin_rite]

Again, I am not here to tell what to like or dislike. I am telling you to quit holding up your opinion like it’s the yardstick for all writers to measure up against if they ever wish to be considered creative.

Like I said, you’re not even a writer and whatever proof you have of me being snobbish I could give you just as much of proof of you being the same (if not, worse).

No you’re telling me to put up or shut up. I’m not putting my opinion up as a yardstick for for all writers to measure up against. My yardstick is my own personal yardstick. Which I Measure things up to. And if i don’t like it. I’ll say it. And so what if i wasn’t a writer when i voiced my opinion? I can’t critize anything cause i’m not a writer? Then how can you take any compliments by a non writer serious? Or worth while? And by the way like i mentioned in my last post i’m now writing a book so i am now a writer. SO nenner nenner nenner.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yeah right. Regis and Philbert two of historys greatest imposing figures. I’m not telling writers how to write anything. I’m not saying that 'YOU MUST DO IT MY WAY!!!" Lest alone you. someone who has written nothing…I’m saying that those style of “vampires” * goes and wash the up chuck taste from my mouth are uncreative. Damn man. I don’t have to like everything That is written. I don’t have to say i like every thing that is written just so some wanna be writers won’t get his knickers in a knot. I’m sorry. But i’m not going to pretend i like something or stop voicing my opinion, just to keep over sensitive people like you happy.

Hello? Are you so thick and stupid to not read your own words? A wannabe critic like you (and a poor excuse of one no less) is calling me, a person who links his own gallery of fiction in his signature, a wannabe writer and expect me to not consider it as an obnoxious, imposing demand to conform?

I think you’ll need to do more than wash your mouth. You need to have someone splash a bucket of water on your face. Did you have your coffee yet?

Sigh Here is what i said or what you “quoted”( trying to quote out of context it seems.
And i say that because where i said “actually i find both good” was in responce to your question? *ones created via necromancy instead of some creepy mutant virus like they did with Resident Evil * )

“Originally Posted by latin_rite
You have been saying all along that the old traditional ( and much more creative) vampire is no longer creative. So you shot yourself in the foot there. And another sign of you lying or is it missunderstanding? what someone said. I never said that the new type of wiggle woggles are offencive to me where did i say it was offencive? why lie? Are you too stupid to stick to the truth. And not liking something or a way something is done. is not being narrow minded.”

Like I said, you’re really not a sharp reader now are you? I said I don’t have to have something to conform to my tastes, just to consider it new and creative. And what question? My example with zombies wasn’t a question. Honestly, I think it would be best for you to stop arguing with people until you know how to read right.

Even in your previous post you said . “I say such because it’s been used over and over again in gory horror movies that make me wanna puke”.
And so what if i’m not awriter? You think you’re so wonderous that us mere mortals can’t find fault in your work? We’re suppose to shut and not say a word, because “we’re not even writers”? If you knew about " trends and archetypes" you would be a published writer. And who says i’m not a writer? I’m going to start writing a book right now. There. Now i’m awriter and i can now critize whom ever writings i like.

This is stupid. You might as well say, "I’m going to study medicine, thus I’m now a doctor so thus I can now ‘critize’ the methods of other doctors even though they have more experience than me duuuuhhh… "

O being pure evil is what gives them the edge over the emovamps or the mr darcy vamps. But it isn’t the only thing.

Why? you haven’t “bet” a single thing correct yet.

On the contrary, I see growing evidence right there.

How can anything “always” be new. Please explain this new law of universe.

Is the word “compare” missing in your mental dictionary too?

Like i said depends on the story.

Could it be then that you are now conceding that a character can be a warlock, vampire, or even a demon and still be a hero?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

No you’re telling me to put up or shut up. I’m not putting my opinion up as a yardstick for for all writers to measure up against.

Yes. You. Are. If you think calling something “uncreative” and calling people “wannabes” because they don’t conform to your personal tastes isn’t putting up a yardstick then you’re as delusional as Jack Chick.

My yardstick is my own personal yardstick. Which I Measure things up to. And if i don’t like it. I’ll say it.

Again, there’s a difference between saying you don’t like something and saying it’s uncreative.

And so what if i wasn’t a writer when i voiced my opinion? I can’t critize anything cause i’m not a writer? Then how can you take any compliments by a non writer serious? Or worth while? And by the way like i mentioned in my last post i’m now writing a book so i am now a writer. SO nenner nenner nenner.

Does a non-linguist criticize the research of a linguist? Does a doctor criticize the calculations of an architect? No.

And it’s not that I take you compliments seriously. It’s the fact that you’re being an obnoxious wannabe critic who is ignorant of the implications of his words and (perhaps unconsciously or not) tries to pass it off as anything worthwhile.

 

[Angela_Tate]

Take it outside, boys :slapfight:

Your recent posts have been removed because the content became personal and uncharitable, taking the thread off topic. If you choose to continue posting in this thread present your points objectively without resorting to personal insults and attacks.

 

[latin_rite]

OK, everybody, like I said, I don’t read the genre, so feel free to yell “shut up” if you want tp:

That said, I’d say anybody who can pull a being or class thereof out of his head is being creative, and should not be accused of uncreativity just because someone else dislikes the result. There is no “official manuscript” for vampiric fiction; it arose from folk tales over centuries and no doubt did a lot of evolving before hitting the novel market in the 1800s. Like every other genre, it is still evolving. Compare a mainstream novel from now to one from 1910, or modern science fiction to Jules Verne, or modern police fiction to Sherlock Holmes, etc. If it does not evolve, it dies, because the culture that birthed it has disappeared.

Before calling somebody else uncreative, try pulling the characters YOU like out of YOUR head and getting something published.

Well since becoming a writer. I find it very easy to invent a new style of vampire. And i have no doubt about my imminent success. hmmm. I wonder when oprah will call me up to make it her book of the month?