Twist of globalisation: Veneration of Mary mixes with pagan goddess worshippers

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Twist of globalisation: All faiths come together Reuters **Lourdes (France), August 20: **In an unexpected twist of globalisation, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and other pilgrims regularly worship at famous Roman Catholic shrines to the Virgin Mary such as Lourdes in France and Fatima in Portugal.

They drink the holy water, light votive candles and pray fervently to the Madonna for help with life’s hardships. Many venerate her like one of their own goddesses, a view that would be a heresy if a Catholic theologian tried to defend it.

Rather than turned away, the newcomers are free to join the crowds from Ireland, Italy, Spain, and other traditionally Catholic countries who flock to Europe’s most popular shrines.

In Fatima, the warm welcome they have received has caused an uproar among traditionalist Catholics.

No one can say how many non-Catholics worship at shrines where the Virgin is said to have appeared, but they have become a familiar minority there over the past five to 10 years.

“There are lots of them,” Bishop Jacques Perrier of Lourdes told Reuters during Pope John Paul’s visit to the southwestern French “miracle shrine” on August 14-15.

“Their numbers may be small as a percentage of the 6 million pilgrims here each year, but they’re big in absolute terms.”

The sight of some south Asian women in splendid saris mingling with the European pilgrims is the first hint that reverence for Mary has crossed religious borders.

Standing near the grotto where she was said to have appeared in 1858, two women wearing the Hindu red dot or “bindi” on their foreheads said they prayed daily to the Madonna.

“I come here for peace of mind and heart,” said Buvaneswary Palani, a Hindu from southeastern India who now lives in southern France.

“Gods are the same everywhere,” explained her mother Darmavady. “She is like our mother goddess Mariamman.”

**MARY, MARIAMMAN, MARYAM **

Catholics revere Mary and believe she can intervene with Jesus to help them, but they do not consider her divine.

Hindu or Buddhist pilgrims could be forgiven for thinking she is, though, when they see the faithful kneeling in silent prayer before her statue or admire the huge mosaic of her that looms over the altar at the Lourdes basilica.

The Virgin also resembles goddesses they venerated back home before moving to Europe.

Tamils in southeastern India and northern Sri Lanka worship a goddess Mariamman who protects villages and wards off disease.

Among the Buddhists of China, Vietnam and other Asian states, the “compassionate Saviouress” Kwan Yin offers the maternal love that Catholics find in Mary.

Although Islam teaches there is no god but Allah, folk traditions in some Muslim societies have smuggled in a devotion for saints much like that seen in other religions.

The Koran contains a whole chapter on Mary, far more than the Gospels have on her. In it, Maryam (her Arabic name) is a virgin and Jesus a great prophet but neither is divine. With its mass pilgrimages, devotion to a mother figure and belief in water with miracle healing powers, Lourdes combines elements familiar to followers of several other faiths. “In a globalised age, it’s normal that Lourdes attracts them,” said Patrick Theillier, a physician who heads the Medical Bureau which examines every claim of miracle healing at Lourdes. The bureau has certified only 66 healings as genuine miracles.
 
**FATIMA UNDER FIRE **

Perrier saw no theological problem with pilgrims of other faiths worshipping at a shrine central to Roman Catholicism.

“There are no religious services at the grotto,” the bishop explained. “They have great respect for Mary. They come to drink the water and touch the rocks. But they don’t attend mass here. That would have no meaning for them.”

But the line between hospitality to outsiders and blurring of religious borders is close, as Portugal’s Fatima shrine to the Virgin has learned.

Traditionalist Catholics are up in arms against the shrine’s directors for allegedly being so open to Hindu pilgrims that they let them perform religious rites there.

“They have sinned against God and given scandal to the faithful,” thundered the U.S. monthly Catholic Family News. “They allowed Mary to be worshipped as God by pagan apostates.”

Fatima’s director, Father Luciano Guerro, issued a statement in late June denying that a Hindu pilgrim group led by its own priest had somehow defiled the shrine during a visit in May.

“The priest sang a prayer which lasted a few minutes,” he said. “No gesture was made, no rite was performed, on or off the altar.” Guerro also denied charges that a new church now being built there would be open to rites from all faiths.

**VATICAN CONCERN **

The blurring of religious borders that globalisation has brought to Marian shrines has also touched the higher levels of Catholic theology, causing deep concern at the Vatican.

Father Jacques Dupuis, an 80-year-old Belgian Jesuit who spent 20 years in India, has broken new ground in recent years by arguing that God works through many faiths to save all believers.

This contradicts the Catholic position that faith in Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation and even other Christian churches are imperfect paths to that goal.

Challenging that view earned the respected theologian a secretive three-year investigation by the Vatican’s stern doctrinal chief, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. The issue calmed in 2001 when Dupuis, under heavy Vatican pressure, issued a statement saying his writings had contained some doctrinal ambiguities. But he has not changed his view. “The Holy Spirit is present in the Hindu and Buddhist traditions,” he said in a lecture in February. “The diverse paths are conducive to salvation because they have been placed by God Himself.”

URL: expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=35246
 
I don’t see what is so wrong with this. Many faiths coming together peacefully to pray. They may call Mary by different names or have a different view of her, but they are all coming there showing respect for the shrine and other people, praying for whatever reasons they feel. I still feel all paths lead to the same place, but either way, wouldn’t you rather have this than having people of other faiths vandalizing the shrine, or saying it has no religious value, or fighting over who has the “right to pray at the shrine”?
 
Some argue that the Mary of Catholicism and the Mary of the bible are not the same Mary. For instance, the bible never identifies her as the Queen of Heaven. The term is only used in references to pagan goddesses. Jerimiah 7:18, 44:17-19
 
Chris LaRock:
Some argue that the Mary of Catholicism and the Mary of the bible are not the same Mary. For instance, the bible never identifies her as the Queen of Heaven. The term is only used in references to pagan goddesses. Jerimiah 7:18, 44:17-19
try reading Revelation. And if that doesn’t make much sense, read what Scott Hahn has said and written.
 
tripp(name removed by moderator)rincezz:
I don’t see what is so wrong with this. Many faiths coming together peacefully to pray. They may call Mary by different names or have a different view of her, but they are all coming there showing respect for the shrine and other people, praying for whatever reasons they feel. I still feel all paths lead to the same place, but either way, wouldn’t you rather have this than having people of other faiths vandalizing the shrine, or saying it has no religious value, or fighting over who has the “right to pray at the shrine”?

That is just the sort of thing which St. Ambrose was against in the late 4th century:​

acs.ucalgary.ca/~vandersp/Courses/texts/sym-amb/symrel3.html
  1. Will your Majesties listen to other actions of this same Prince, which you may more worthily imitate? He diminished none of the privileges of the sacred virgins, he filled the priestly offices with nobles, he did not refuse the cost of the Roman ceremonies, and following the rejoicing Senate through all the streets of the eternal city, he contentedly beheld the shrines with unmoved countenance, he read the names of the gods inscribed on the pediments, he enquired about the origin of the temples, and expressed admiration for their builders. [6]Although he himself followed another religion “he” is the Emperor Constantius, who was a Christian like his father Constantine I], he maintained its own for the empire, for everyone has his own customs, everyone his own rites. The divine Mind has distributed different guardians and different cults to different cities. [7] As souls are separately given to infants as they are born, so to peoples the genius of their destiny. Here comes in the proof from advantage, which most of all vouches to man for the gods. For, since our reason is wholly clouded, whence does the knowledge of the gods more rightly come to us, than from the memory and evidence of prosperity? Now if a long period gives authority to religious customs, we ought to keep faith with so many centuries, and to follow our ancestors, as they happily followed theirs.
This quotation, from a a pagan Roman aristocrat of the 380s, is too like defences of this inter-religious veneration of Mary at Fatima for comfort. ##
 
None of that proves she is the queen of heaven. This is a title given to het by the CC.
 
Chris LaRock:
Some argue that the Mary of Catholicism and the Mary of the bible are not the same Mary. For instance, the bible never identifies her as the Queen of Heaven. The term is only used in references to pagan goddesses. Jerimiah 7:18, 44:17-19
  • George Bush was President of the USA - just like George Bush.
  • Both were Republicans
  • They both fought wars against Iraq, within a mere dozen years or so.
  • They also lived at the same time
Therefore, what is more likely than that the two George Bushes are one individual ?

They have more points in common than Mary and the “Queen of Heaven” in Jeremiah.

Do Catholics:
  • gather wood
  • kindle fire
  • knead dough
  • make cakes
  • burn incense
  • vow to burn incense to Mary
  • pour out drink offerings to Mary
  • or pour out drink offerings to other gods
  • or pour out drink offerings to the Saints ?
No. Catholics do not do any of these things in honour of Mary. But all those things are done for the Queen of Heaven in Jeremiah 7 & 44.

Which is why that equation is mistaken - in short, it rests on a similarity of names, not on any similarity in the things named. ##
 
As Catholics we are going to have to be careful to make it clear that there is ONE way to God. Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me.” John 14:6.
There is one true God. There is one true faith. All other faiths are wrong. They may contain elements of the truth and they may (or may not) help their believers to come closer to God, but ultimately there is a revealed truth form God, revealed by His Son Jesus Christ.

The sort of multi-faith events witnessed at Lourdes and Fatima do no good in proclaiming the true path to God. All these events do is confirm in Protestant minds their suspicion that we Catholics are secretly pagans.

We would do far more service to people of other religions if we lovingly proclaimed our faith and told people about Jesus, the Son of God, the Way to Heaven.

Any study of Catholic teaching about Mary, and any study of Mary’s appearances at places like Fatima and Lourdes, would show that her role is to point people to Jesus, to lead people to follow God’s commandments and repent of their sin. Never in her message, from her Magnificat, her words to the servants at the wedding in Cana, her quiet witness at the Cross and tomb and her presence at Pentecost, does Mary suggest that any path will get you to Heaven. Rather her message is always - “Turn to Christ, follow Him, do what He tells you.”
 
Chris LaRock:
Some argue that the Mary of Catholicism and the Mary of the bible are not the same Mary. For instance, the bible never identifies her as the Queen of Heaven. The term is only used in references to pagan goddesses. Jerimiah 7:18, 44:17-19
Read revelation 12, where mary appears with a crown of twelve stars.
 
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