Twixt a Rock & Hard Place/Seal of Confession

  • Thread starter Thread starter rwoehmke
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
R

rwoehmke

Guest
What is a priest or bishop to do when a fellow clergyman or lay person confesses Child Abuse? Lawyers for the abused support mandatory reporting. I don’t know if such laws have been passed yet, but theyt will come to pass. Some are already angry at Bishops for not reporting in certain instances. At least some of these may have been protected by the seal of confession. :confused:
 
40.png
rwoehmke:
What is a priest or bishop to do when a fellow clergyman or lay person confesses Child Abuse? Lawyers for the abused support mandatory reporting. I don’t know if such laws have been passed yet, but theyt will come to pass. Some are already angry at Bishops for not reporting in certain instances. At least some of these may have been protected by the seal of confession. :confused:
Click to expand...
If such laws were passed they would promptly be challenged and make their way to the Supreme Court.
 
40.png
rwoehmke:
What is a priest or bishop to do when a fellow clergyman or lay person confesses Child Abuse? Lawyers for the abused support mandatory reporting. I don’t know if such laws have been passed yet, but theyt will come to pass. Some are already angry at Bishops for not reporting in certain instances. At least some of these may have been protected by the seal of confession. :confused:
Click to expand...
The seal is sacrosanct and would not be violated no matter what the law of the land.
 
40.png
rwoehmke:
What is a priest or bishop to do when a fellow clergyman or lay person confesses Child Abuse? Lawyers for the abused support mandatory reporting. I don’t know if such laws have been passed yet, but theyt will come to pass. Some are already angry at Bishops for not reporting in certain instances. At least some of these may have been protected by the seal of confession. :confused:
Click to expand...
The seal of confession will always remain absolute. They can pass all the civil laws that they want and it will have no effect. The Confessor can withold absolution and strongly encourage the person to turn themselves in to authorities.
 
I honestly cannot picture Jesus turning in somebody who confessed to him…

He forgave people their sins, told them to sin no more, and even saved one from the justifiable civil penalty they would have received (‘cast the first stone’)…

So, provided priests who hear confessions of horrific content press upon the penitent to repent to the civil authorities of their crimes, and/or seek professional assisistance I am 100% behind protecting the Sacrament of Reconciliation at all cost.

The priest, as Jesus, loosens or binds, per Jesus’ directive…no where did Jesus tell them to convict or hand over to civil authorities those persons who have confessed sin to them. He didn’t do it himself because that is not the point of the sacrament. Jesus’ focus has always been on redeeming mankind for the Kingdom of Heaven, not punishing us while on earth.
 
But the priest confessor might question whether the penitent priest was actually sorry if he was unwilling to turn himself in. It would certainly be possible for the confessor priest to delay absolution.

Now in theory we would never know the answer to this question but I wonder how often a priest guilty of child abuse does confess the sin to another priest.

But in any case a priest would be free to report what he learns outside of confession. Hopefully a priest would encourage any victim who came to him to report abuse, even if the priest had previously heard the confession of the abuser. As long as the victim was not confessing while divulging the information the priest can relay the victim’s report to authorities.
 
I may be wrong, but another thread on this topic had statements that in fact the priest cannot make the person turn himself in as a condition of absolution.
 
I wouldn’t worry too much about the civil authorities getting hold of a criminal. Even if that person confesses, if he is not truely penetant his eternal prison will be a lot worse than any he will undergo here. God will not be mocked.
Anything that is discussed within the confines of confession, cannot and must not be opened to outside discussion in no way shape or form, as it pertains in anyway to the person who made the confession.
 
40.png
oldfogey:
I may be wrong, but another thread on this topic had statements that in fact the priest cannot make the person turn himself in as a condition of absolution.
Click to expand...
That is correct. He can only advise him to do so. The seal includes requiring a person to manifest their sin to another.
 
The confessor can require as a penance for the confessee to turn himself in and face the punishment.

There is no way, no matter what law is passed, that the seal of the confessional can ever be broken.

If such a law passes you will see bishops and priests arrested and thrown into jail for keeping the seal of confession, either that or they will be de-frocked or excommunicated for breaking the seal.

Ken
 
40.png
kleary:
The confessor can require as a penance for the confessee to turn himself in and face the punishment.
Click to expand...
Ken,
I do not believe that this is true becuase then it would void the seal of the confession. A priest can not, as a penance or a condition of absolution, force a person to tell someone else his sins.

At best, if the priest knows that the penitent is not sincere in their confession, that is that they truely are sorry and truely mean to not sin again, he may withhold absolution altogether.
 
Rock and a hard place-

The Christians are burning Rome

Nero to Peter -
Peter, what do you know about this, have some confessed to you their crime in confession?

Peter to Nero-
I refuse to disclose what anyone has told me in confession

Nero to Peter - “To the cross with the prisoner”.

(not like it happened that way)

Ken
 
40.png
ByzCath:
Ken,
I do not believe that this is true becuase then it would void the seal of the confession. A priest can not, as a penance or a condition of absolution, force a person to tell someone else his sins.

At best, if the priest knows that the penitent is not sincere in their confession, that is that they truely are sorry and truely mean to not sin again, he may withhold absolution altogether.
Click to expand...
Correct, a confessor cannot require a penance that will reveal the sin of the person confessing.
 
40.png
mosher:
Correct, a confessor cannot require a penance that will reveal the sin of the person confessing.
Click to expand...
Sure he can. The priest can not break the seal of confession but he can give any penance that he feels is appropriate including requiring a person to turn HIMself / HERself in; since the priest will not be the one who actually breaks the seal of confession.

One has to remember, however, that the penance is NOT a condition of absolution. Meaning that the priest can not say that “your sins are forgiven if you do this or that”. Absolution can never be CONDITIONAL. Once a person walks out of confession, their sins have either been absolved or they haven’t – completely indepentent of the penance given.

Now if a person walks out of there and doesn’t perform the penance given and doesn’t turn themselves in, that is another story but the absolution still remains even if the penance was not done.

I suspect that another penance will be required of the person in the afterlife for failing to perform the penance given and it has been said by numerous saints that we can pay our debt to sin here on earth for pennies on the dollar – meaning that any penance which we fail to perform here because of it’s difficulty will be countless times more intense in the afterlife.
 
Sir Knight:
Sure he can. The priest can not break the seal of confession but he can give any penance that he feels is appropriate including requiring a person to turn HIMself / HERself in; since the priest will not be the one who actually breaks the seal of confession.

.
Click to expand...
Sir Knight: with respect, that isn’t true. The priest cannot force the penitent to carry anything from the “inner forum” to the “exterior forum.” That’s a paraphrase of how the Church puts it, but the priest cannot force the penitent to turn himself in on pain of witholding absolution.

The legislature in Nevada attempted to pass a law that would require priests to turn in anyone confessing a crime of abuse. Our bishop had a cow and they dropped it like the very bad idea it was. It was sponsored by Senator Dina Titus, who’s running for governor.
 
40.png
JKirkLVNV:
Sir Knight: with respect, that isn’t true. The priest cannot force the penitent to carry anything from the “inner forum” to the “exterior forum.” That’s a paraphrase of how the Church puts it, but the priest cannot force the penitent to turn himself in on pain of witholding absolution.

The legislature in Nevada attempted to pass a law that would require priests to turn in anyone confessing a crime of abuse. Our bishop had a cow and they dropped it like the very bad idea it was. It was sponsored by Senator Dina Titus, who’s running for governor.
Click to expand...
Correct and obstinance against penance establishes a possible disposition contrary to to contrition. Penance is a necessary portion of the sacrament as it is to satisfy justice and one is under obedience to perform at least the penance that is given them at the time of confession. It is called formal counsel which binds a person as opposed to advice. A priest cannot and must not assign a penance that would cause a person to manifest their sins as it is a violation of the sanctity of the “inner forum.”
 
The seal of confession is pretty much absolute, regardless of what the civil laws of a particular jurisdiction are.

Even if a penitent were to confess to killing the priest’s mother, he would be bound by the seal.

Even if a school kid were to confess to bringing porn mags into the parish school, when another kid had already been punished for the school violation, the priest couldn’t correct his administrative error as to do so would violate the seal.
 
40.png
Kielbasi:
The seal of confession is pretty much absolute, regardless of what the civil laws of a particular jurisdiction are.

Even if a penitent were to confess to killing the priest’s mother, he would be bound by the seal.

Even if a school kid were to confess to bringing porn mags into the parish school, when another kid had already been punished for the school violation, the priest couldn’t correct his administrative error as to do so would violate the seal.
Click to expand...
The priest is ABSOLUTELY bound by the seal. If a penitent were to confess poisining the wine the priest was about to use for mass, the priest would be bound to discard that information and use the poison wine even if it killed him.

However, the penitent is not bound by the seal and the priest can give a penance of turning himself in but this penance can NOT be a CONDITION for receiving absolution.
 
Sir Knight:
However, the penitent is not bound by the seal and the priest can give a penance of turning himself in but this penance can NOT be a CONDITION for receiving absolution.
Click to expand...
Correct I think that we just have some confused terms here. Penance is something that must be done as it is a formal part of the sacrament. However the priest may advise the person to turn themselves in etc.
 
Actually, penance does not have to be done. The penance which we do not do in this life, we will have to do in the next and as I mentioned above, many saints have revealed that we can pay our debt here on earth for pennies on the dollar compared to the next. So it would be pretty foolish not to do a penance given.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top