Two different gods(

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My friend asked me if I agree that there is a difference between the god of the old testament and Jesus in the new. He asked if I agree that the old testament god is all about wiping out his enemies and vengeance and in the new jesus is all about loving your enemies and stuff like that. I kind of agree but I’m not sure of the proper way to answer. Help plz?
 
Actually, no.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race; the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.”

John 1:1

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three Persons in One God.

The birth and life of Jesus and the combined giving of the Holy Spirit formally changed monotheism to trinitarian monotheism.

Additionally, Jesus became the gate, through which all persons will pass in order to know the Trinitarian God.
 
No, there is only one God - the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament is the same one God.

If you’re concerned about the “difference” in God, I think the proper understanding is that God is the same, but His means of revelation has changed. In the Old Testament, He deals with humans in one way, but in the New Testament, He deals with them in a wholly new way. In the OT, God spoke through the prophets, through signs (like the Exodus of Israelites, capture of Jericho, etc.). In the NT, God comes to us in human form as Jesus. So it’s not that God has changed, only His means of revelation.

God is love and always has been. God is also a God of mercy and justice. All of this is manifested throughout both Testaments, just in different ways.
 
As noted above, there is one God, who punished sinners with death, which is the result of original sin. At the Incarnation, Christ became Man, and after His Death and Resurrection, He defeated death, therefore allowing for the salvation of souls. Thus, He was instituted as the ‘new covenant’ as His words tell us:

“This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.” (Luke 22: 20)
 
If you are explaining under the atheist’s acceptance (albeit, likely hypothetically on his/her part), of God as described by the Bible and through His revelations carried on through the Church, then the Bible has ample proof to show this.

If he/she is wondering why the ‘change’ in God’s attitude towards man, describe how significant the Incarnation was - how it affected death and salvation by establishing a new covenant so there won’t be another Great Flood, or fire and brimstone raining down on the Sodomites. God becoming Man was completely new, so a new covenant was established that was consummated by Christ’s death on the Cross and Resurrection. Mankind became able to be saved, and in doing so, the need to destroy those who destroyed their own lives in sin is no longer needed because we can repent, embrace Christ and His Bride, the Holy Church, and be saved through Christ’s sacrifice.

It is not a new/different God, just the development of God’s plans for us to be with Him eternally. When you take a picture with a polaroid camera, it comes out blank, but later, it will become an actual portrait of something. There aren’t two pictures, only the development of one due to certain factors and workings beyond what we can see.
 
That depends. Which type of atheist are you referring to?

The atheist who has rejected God or the atheist who has never known God?
 
My friend asked me if I agree that there is a difference between the god of the old testament and Jesus in the new. He asked if I agree that the old testament god is all about wiping out his enemies and vengeance and in the new jesus is all about loving your enemies and stuff like that. I kind of agree but I’m not sure of the proper way to answer. Help plz?
One can’t forget that death is not a moral evil - it’s the consequence of Original Sin. God, being the Author of Life, has the right to bestow it and take it away in any manner He chooses since all that occurs is wise and just in light of the Salvation in Christ.

After the Original Sin which affects all of humanity, God in His wisdom decides not to save the whole human race in a global manner, but to save a remnant which is a small, obscure and unimportant people in the eyes of the world in order to bring forth the Christ Who will be the Savior of the whole. Thus God has the right to command the leaders of His People to wipe out, e.g., the Canaanites, first to teach obedience to His will, and second to protect them from being attracted to the prosperous culture and religion which is involved with the sacrifice of children to Moloch and with ritual prostitution. God sees His providential arrangement all in one eternal seeing and in Salvation History uses such the incidents your friend sees in the Old Testament as pedagogy for the particular People He chose. Through them the entire world will eventually be taught in the Self-Revelation of the Incarnate Son Who is born to and in the midst of that People.
 
When Jesus returns again he is going to kick butt.
Jesus had mean words for false teachers of his day.
There are passages of God’s love in the OT, read the Psalms.
There are passages of God’s wrath in the OT too.

You need only to compile a list of texts about God’s love and his wrath in both testaments to show that he is the same God.
 
I would suggest that you, and your friend, actually read the Old Testament.

There is a LOT more about love from God than most people believe. God repeatedly refuses to punish mankind, even when man has deserved punishment, because he loves us. Over and over again, God states his love for us, through his prophets.

The New Testament is all about the redemption, not just love. It is the story of God becoming man, suffering and dying on the cross, to redeem us from our sins. It is the continuation of the story of the Old Testament, NOT something totally new and different.
 
I would suggest that you, and your friend, actually read the Old Testament.

There is a LOT more about love from God than most people believe. God repeatedly refuses to punish mankind, even when man has deserved punishment, because he loves us. Over and over again, God states his love for us, through his prophets.

The New Testament is all about the redemption, not just love. It is the story of God becoming man, suffering and dying on the cross, to redeem us from our sins. It is the continuation of the story of the Old Testament, NOT something totally new and different.
Well I didnt really need a smart alec answer like that we’ve both “read” the Old Testament I just didn’t know how to explain it. But thanks.
 
My friend asked me if I agree that there is a difference between the god of the old testament and Jesus in the new. He asked if I agree that the old testament god is all about wiping out his enemies and vengeance and in the new jesus is all about loving your enemies and stuff like that. I kind of agree but I’m not sure of the proper way to answer. Help plz?
I would say that there is a difference. I can think of at least two differences:
  1. In the Old Testament, we are taught to resist evil. But in the New Testament we are taught not to resist evil. Matthew 5: [39] But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other:
  2. In the Old Testament we are taught to honor our father and our mother, But in the New Testament we are told that Jesus came to set people at variance with their father and their mother: Matthew 10: [35] For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
 
Well I didnt really need a smart alec answer like that we’ve both “read” the Old Testament I just didn’t know how to explain it. But thanks.
I think the best way to explain the seemingly differences in God from the Old Testament to the New Testament would be something like this. God is a teacher. you have to see that the type of people i.e. israel were. they came from a polytheistic backround and struggled with polytheism (golden calf, worship of ba’al peor in numbers). They were people who sacrificed to pagan gods before they knew the One True God. God used where the people were at, He didn’t ask them to come to where He was. They would not be able to do this. its like a teacher who is teaching physics, there is no way that he could tell his students everything about physics all at once and expect them to understand or choose to continue to study it. they would more than likly drop out. Same is true with God. He is infinite and we are finite so we can never possibly understand everything aobut Him until we have to beatific vision in heaven, but He did SLOWLY reveal to us, things about Himself culminating in Christ. if you read the entire bible through this can be seen. it’s called the Divine Pedagogy. i would challenge so one who says that God is different from the old to new testament and say that the people changed and He came down to our level to Help them understand.

hope this helps if you need clarification feel free to message me.

In Christ
 
If you notice, God chastises and forgives his children (Israel) and to those who honor him (eg Nineveh) in the Old Testament and then destroys all the pagans (oh how I love reading through Joshua). In the New Testament, since everyone can now fall under the new covenant, he doesn’t go around destroying people because his children have changed to include (potentially) everyone, and one could have a change of heart up to the last moment. You can tell your atheist friend to be very happy he is living post-incarnation 👍
 
I think we should focus on the first five books of Moses in order to know something about God’s character in the OT. Why? Because they are the first texts revealed to Moses, and have many instances of God being quoted verbatim, not through prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc. If we do this, we see that the OT God comes out as very different from Jesus. For one thing, He never promises anything like Heaven or Hell to his followers, he only requires absolute obedience in this life and, if they dare to disobey, He metes out punishment without the slightest reluctance. Also he is very jumpy and gets angry on a whim. If this is not different from the message of Jesus, then we need to come up with a new meaning for the word different. People may go to great lengths to deny this and put themselves through all kinds of logical contortions, but as the old saying goes “if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck”.
I think we should accept that God cannot love everybody. He tells us Himself that He “loved Jacob, but hated Esau”. Was there ever any logical explanation for that?
 
My friend asked me if I agree that there is a difference between the god of the old testament and Jesus in the new. He asked if I agree that the old testament god is all about wiping out his enemies and vengeance and in the new jesus is all about loving your enemies and stuff like that. I kind of agree but I’m not sure of the proper way to answer. Help plz?
One teacher two methods. If you have ever watched the “Karate Kid” you might understand why I would summarize the entire new testament as “wax on, wax off”. In the movie, the karate teacher expected his student to do what he asked with out question including putting wax on and taking wax off. The student was expected to do medial tasks over and over for days and had to do them a specific way and the teacher watched over the students execution of these mindless tasks with an almost obsesive attention to the seamingly trivial details. Mid way through the movie, the teacher uses what the student learned and shows how the habits learned gave him the ability to execute karate moves flawlessly. The teacher did not change but the technique changed. During the time the old testament was written, we as the human race were learning the basic techniques of following God. We have now graduated to the next level and are now being taught a different way.
 
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