Two fundemental questions about Judaism

[Mijoy2]

1. In the Old Testament, are the Jewish people concerned with an afterlife, or is the concern, and interpretation of Gods word regarding the promised land, life/death etc. strictly a worldly affair? Are the Jews hearing (and sometimes not hearing) Gods Word as meaning fullfilling their needs here on earth, or is there more, something eternal, in the minds of the Jewish people?
2. Assuming the Jews did have a mindset, or vision, or hope of an eternal life, what did the ancient Jews consider “requirements” (reluctant term) for justification towards salvation?

Catholics have the concept of sancifying grace, protestants the concept of once saved always saved (OSAS), if the Jews believe in the concept of an eternal life, just how did they envision eternal life vs death.

I am attempting to get a better understanding of our Salvation History and these questions do not seem to be directly addressed in scripture or else (and very likely) I am just missing it.

Any thoughts/links etc very welcome, thanks much.

 

[NHInsider]

Most scholars agree that there is a gradual development of understanding/belief about the afterlife over the centuries represented in the Old Testament. When King David suggested (2 Sam 12:23) that he would see his deceased child in the afterlife, this was a rather novel idea. We know that in the time of Jesus the Jews were divided into camps defined, in part, by whether or not they believed in an afterlife - those who insisted that everything essential was included in the Torah concluding that there was no afterlife, and Jesus citing God’s self-identification in the burning bush episode as evidence within the Torah of the reality of the afterlife.

In the years after the Exodus the people understood that their relationship with the LORD was corporate and the benefits of keeping the covenant were immediate and terrestrial. The prophets emphasized the importance of the submission of the heart to the Lord, and particularly after the Exile celebrated the eschatalogical (end of the word) rewards/restoration promised to those who keep the covenant.

Hope that’s at least somewhat helpful (although I’m sure it would be simpler if there were just one “Jewish” concept/understanding). On that note be aware than not all Protestants believe in OSAS. . . .

Sally

 

[meltzerboy]

1. In the Old Testament, are the Jewish people concerned with an afterlife, or is the concern, and interpretation of Gods word regarding the promised land, life/death etc. strictly a worldly affair? Are the Jews hearing (and sometimes not hearing) Gods Word as meaning fullfilling their needs here on earth, or is there more, something eternal, in the minds of the Jewish people?
2. Assuming the Jews did have a mindset, or vision, or hope of an eternal life, what did the ancient Jews consider “requirements” (reluctant term) for justification towards salvation?

Catholics have the concept of sancifying grace, protestants the concept of once saved always saved (OSAS), if the Jews believe in the concept of an eternal life, just how did they envision eternal life vs death.

I am attempting to get a better understanding of our Salvation History and these questions do not seem to be directly addressed in scripture or else (and very likely) I am just missing it.

Any thoughts/links etc very welcome, thanks much.

Mijoy, the answer to your first question is yes and no. It depends on the Jewish sect and the Jewish text of the Hebrew Bible. The Pharisees (and Essenes) believed in an afterlife, and current rabbinical Judaism, to a large degree, derives from Pharisaic tradition. However, the Sadducees did not believe in an afterlife. The Masoretic text is the commonly used text of the Hebrew Bible today. The Septuagint probably puts more emphasis on an afterlife than the Masoretic text, although my information is second-hand on this and may be wrong. In the Hebrew Bible, there seems to be a progression of belief with more emphasis on an afterlife in the books written later than in the earlier material. Judaism has always been divided on the issue of the afterlife from the early years, since the Torah does not definitively settle the matter one way or another. Thus there appear rabbinical interpretations of Torah passages in the Talmud, Mishna, and Kabbala. And rabbis are not of one mind on this issue and many others, and never have been. The resurrection of the dead is mentioned as one of the thirteen principles of faith composed by Maimonides. But that doesn’t mean all modern Jews believe in it, though most do. However, Judaism as a whole does believe that the present life is of greater importance than speculation about the afterlife, and it is the act of living a moral life in the present we should focus on.

The requirements for the Ancient Jews are the same as those of the Modern Orthodox Jews. Salvation depends on obedience to the 613 commandments of the Torah (about half still in effect today since the destruction of the Temple, with the remainder still on record for the Messianic Age). Torah Law is roughly divided into laws of moral behavior toward others (mainly toward humans but also animals) and ritual practices in love and obedience to G-d. This provides all Jews with the recipe for leading a life of goodness, kindness, and humility. Moses stated that it is not all that hard to follow the Law, and if one sins by disobedience, G-d is always receptive to atonement for sins. In other words, one gets much credit for effort and improvement, while perfection is not expected (a point of difference from Catholicism) even though one should try one’s best. According to Orthodox Jewish teaching, Jews bear considerably more responsibility for obedience to the Law than non-Jews, who are required to follow only the seven Laws of Noah. However, one’s obedience should not be thought of for the purpose of salvation, but rather for the purpose of leading a moral life according to G-d’s Will. This is easier said than done, I think, given our own human free will.

 

[Jesus_123]

1. In the Old Testament, are the Jewish people concerned with an afterlife, or is the concern, and interpretation of Gods word regarding the promised land, life/death etc. strictly a worldly affair? Are the Jews hearing (and sometimes not hearing) Gods Word as meaning fullfilling their needs here on earth, or is there more, something eternal, in the minds of the Jewish people? …

+For those who died before Christ’s death on the Cross . . . in the **Old :bible1: Testament **times it was revealed that there were . . . two (2) levels of hell . . . spoken of . . . as revealed in the **New :bible1: Testament ** about Lazarus the holy begger . . . and an uncrossable chasm between them . . .

One of those levels was called. . . “Abraham’s Bosom” . . . (Paradise) . . . this is what the sweet . . . Psalmist of God . . . King David . . . knew and spoke of when he shared he would go to his little son . . . but his little son couldn’t come back to him here on earth . . . (2 Samuel 12:23) . . . below is the passage in the New :bible1: Testament sharing the two level nature of hell . . . the upper level of which . . . no longer exists . . . since Christ Jesus took all those waiting souls resting in Father Abraham’s Bosom to heaven with him . . . after His atoning death on the Cross . . . embedded from the beginning of Jewish history was the promise that a Messiah would be forthcoming in due season . . . and their eternal salvation was always tied into the promise of future salvation of their souls through the coming of the Messiah . . . and century upon century upon century . . . they waited for the promise of the Messiah to be fulfilled . . . until the time came for . . . Jesus . . . the Blessed Christ/Messiah . . . ***God Incarnate ***. . . to be born upon the earth . . . and the Age of Grace was ushered in . . .

. . . :coffeeread: . . .
THE HOLY :bible1: BIBLE
Luke 16:19-31

[19] There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. [20] “And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,” [21] Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. [22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels :angel1: into Abraham’s bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. [23] And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: [24] And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. [25] And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented.

Bishop Challoner’s Douay Rheims Commentary: [22] Abraham’s bosom: The place of rest, where the souls of the saints resided, till Christ​

had opened heaven by his death. [26] And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. [27] And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father’s house, for I have five brethren, [28] That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. [29] And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. [30] But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance. [31]** And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.**​

In all charity and peace . . . your concepts re Catholics and Protestants are too simplistic . . . and don’t truly reflect either the Catholic doctrines re salvation . . . or the Protestant . . . or evangelical views . . . all true Christian children of God . . . not just Catholics . . . believe salvation is obtained by the Grace of God through faith . . . some . . . and only . . . some . . . protestants believe the once saved always saved false teaching . . . but the majority actually believe Jesus’ . . . Parable of the Sower . . . which reveals a variety of types of souls and how they receive the :bible1: Word of God . . . and that only the one type (the good soil) truly will be saved for all eternity . . . Jewish people on the other hand were clearly given the “Holy Mosaic Law” and the Levitical priesthood . . . and were required to carefully and faithfully follow the law and adhere to the Jewish Temple teachings and practices and the Prophets . . . in order to live lives pleasing to God . . .

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . thank you Blessed Virgin Mary our Mother+
. . . thank you Blessed Holy Mother Church+
. . . thank you Blessed St. Jerome+​

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Mijoy, the answer to your first question is yes and no. It depends on the Jewish sect and the Jewish text of the Hebrew Bible. The Pharisees (and Essenes) believed in an afterlife, and current rabbinical Judaism, to a large degree, derives from Pharisaic tradition. However, the Sadducees did not believe in an afterlife. The Masoretic text is the commonly used text of the Hebrew Bible today. The Septuagint probably puts more emphasis on an afterlife than the Masoretic text, although my information is second-hand on this and may be wrong. In the Hebrew Bible, there seems to be a progression of belief with more emphasis on an afterlife in the books written later than in the earlier material. Judaism has always been divided on the issue of the afterlife from the early years, since the Torah does not definitively settle the matter one way or another. Thus there appear rabbinical interpretations of Torah passages in the Talmud, Mishna, and Kabbala. And rabbis are not of one mind on this issue and many others, and never have been. The resurrection of the dead is mentioned as one of the thirteen principles of faith composed by Maimonides. But that doesn’t mean all modern Jews believe in it, though most do. However, Judaism as a whole does believe that the present life is of greater importance than speculation about the afterlife, and it is the act of living a moral life in the present we should focus on.

The requirements for the Ancient Jews are the same as those of the Modern Orthodox Jews. Salvation depends on obedience to the 613 commandments of the Torah (about half still in effect today since the destruction of the Temple, with the remainder still on record for the Messianic Age). Torah Law is roughly divided into laws of moral behavior toward others (mainly toward humans but also animals) and ritual practices in love and obedience to G-d. This provides all Jews with the recipe for leading a life of goodness, kindness, and humility. Moses stated that it is not all that hard to follow the Law, and if one sins by disobedience, G-d is always receptive to atonement for sins. In other words, one gets much credit for effort and improvement, while perfection is not expected (a point of difference from Catholicism) even though one should try one’s best. According to Orthodox Jewish teaching, Jews bear considerably more responsibility for obedience to the Law than non-Jews, who are required to follow only the seven Laws of Noah. However, one’s obedience should not be thought of for the purpose of salvation, but rather for the purpose of leading a moral life according to G-d’s Will. This is easier said than done, I think, given our own human free will.

You are right. The clearest example would probably be 2 Maccabees (probably written not long before the end of the second century B.C.), in which a mother and her children choose death rather than break the Law out of an extremely explicit hope in the resurrection, testified to by a number of speeches of each family member before their death. Also the last son contrasted their hope in the resurrection with the punishment awaiting the Greek king who was putting them to death, which could be implying punishment after death but that’s not as clear. Later in the book Judas Maccabee and his men pray for and make a sacrifice for dead Jewish soldiers who were found to have worn idolatrous amulets, that they would be freed of that sin.

 

[Mijoy2]

Fantastic replies, thanks to all.

It does seem that Eternal Life is not prevelant in the Old Testament. However, as a few of you point out, it is there. Lazarus and the rich man, Maccabees etc. However it appears there is some speculation regarding just how much the OT Jew pondered eternal life.

I had a thought. If one had no fear of eternal torment (hell) or any hope of eternal reward (heaven) yet one did believe in the Lord God who was “with” the OT Jews, I wonder how that perhaps contributed to the (let’s say) poor behavior of the Jews? i.e. immediately after the Exile (golden Calf) while wandering the desert etc etc… Even OT heros fell victim time and time again to sins of the flesh.

If a modern individual believed that once this life was over, there were nothing more, wouldn’t there be incentive to perhaps, get away with what you can for the relatively short period of time one was on this earth? I know that speaking for myself, if I believed in God but not necassarily an eternal life (in other words, after my worldy death I ceased to exist), temptation would have more of an upper hand. Not sure if my behaviors would change or not, but I’d certainly be more easily tempted.

It’s a bit difficult to comprehend that the Jews KNEW god was walking with them (they had first hand witness in Moses, Joshua, the prophets etc; public revelation was in process. Yet they fell time and time again. We, on the other hand walk in Faith only (meaning our eyes and ears do not see and hear the Word of God in the common sense of the senses). I understand god is with us in the Eucharist; I think you get my point.

It would seem, they had so much, yet fell anyway time and time again.

Oh well, hope my point is at least somewhat clear. Just pondering really.