Two Hardcore Videoed EWTN Homilies on How to Dress/Act for Mass

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Lea101 said:
I don’t think they should be kicked out though.
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So not kicked out, but made to feel uncomfortable, put on the spot, and much more?

How about instead of doing that, asking how they are, if they need anything, did they eat that day?

But sure, put on a sack, why don’t you.

No anger here, just pure frustration.
 
Beside the main discussion - am I right in my view that this whole modesty discussion is huge among american catholics, far more than in other countries? I don´t see this kind of discussion here in germany, and we don´t go to mass that different than in america, I guess (based on what I know from pictures, films, friends from america etc).
Maybe we should think why this is such a theme in some areas. Male insecurity? General insecurity? Legalism? Traditionalism?
 
alice24 said:
Beside the main discussion - am I right in my view that this whole modesty discussion is huge among american catholics, far more than in other countries? I don´t see this kind of discussion here in germany, and we don´t go to mass that different than in america, I guess (based on what I know from pictures, films, friends from america etc).

Maybe we should think why this is such a theme in some areas. Male insecurity? General insecurity? Legalism? Traditionalism?
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Yes, I agree—we should be trying to get to the root of these discussions.
 
Lea101 said:
Again, modesty depends on the culture. Walking top less in a tribe is fine, walking topless to the mall here isn’t. General guidelines for mass (eg no shorts, no bare midriffs etc) is perfectly reasonable. I don’t think they should be kicked out though.
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By asking people to change the dress, you will be making them uncomfortable and alienating them. So yes, basically don’t kick them out but still put them on the spot. What happens if they say no, then kick them out?

You really want to explain that to Jesus?
 
Confirmation bias, maybe. Most Americans frequent sites like this. Many guys feel particularly ‘triggered’ over this as well. But I think traditionalism for sure. Many people have a quite romanticised view of the 40s, and this seeps into conversation about religion, gender roles etc
 
I didn’t say that they should change their dress??? I’m not asking for the dress code to be enforced, just let it be known.

Just have a sign outside (eg st Peter’s), so people would know what is expected. Parishioners should also be charitable and leave those who didn’t comply alone.

And yes, I would explain myself to Jesus, since he would know what I’m trying to say, instead of putting words into my mouth and trying to attack my character…?
 
You’re doing it wrongly, then.

My whole point is basically DarkLight’s + the fact that we should all dress modestly (according to the culture), not for men, but because it’s what God asks us to do.

Dress codes are not unreasonable (ie in the office). So I’m not against that idea in general. What I’m against is people making unreasonable guidelines (eg dress like Mary or be damned) that is based on their own opinions and not on the general culture.
 
Here’s a question I’d have for men, while advising this was a very real story for a part of my life.

Suppose I came to you. I say:
I want to be modest and avoid tempting my brothers in Christ. But I feel like, no matter what I wear, it ends up not actually being modest on me. I still get a lot of attention paid to my body, and I still get whistled and honked at walking down the street. When I try to talk to people, I get told I need to be more responsible to not provoke men to lust by my attire, and I can’t really complain if I’m provoking them. But I’m not sure what else to do to not provoke them. I’m even considering not eating so I’ll have a more androgynous body, and that way I won’t be provoking them.
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What would you say to me?
 
Well the mistake here is asking men, because one thinks a light sweater would help?

Anyway I’m interested in the responses. I’m so sorry you had to deal with that.
 
My mother started wearing boleros when she returned to Mass after many years away since many of today’s styles are inappropriate without something to cover up with. Unfortunately, many of today’s clothes may be stylish enough for the younger generation but aren’t suitable for Mass. When I go into Target, I see the sheerest of materials in the dresses. Or dresses are low cut. They aren’t the kind of things I would’ve been allowed to wear in my teens much less in adulthood.

For me, dresses with a classic A-line works best My main criteria is that I don’t want thin material that’s going to show my undergarments. And no plunging necklines. Depending on the season, my arms are covered to the elbow or fully covered. I wear boleros with the two dresses I have that are sleeveless. And of course, I wear my veil.

In the winter months when our temperatures are too low to wear even winter dresses, I wear pantsuits which means everything is covered up. I was raised to dress modestly and continue to this day. Modesty on the outside and inside should be instilled in one’s children from the earliest moment possible. It is a lesson they will continue with their own children.

Who are we going to see and celebrate when we go to Mass? Jesus, the King of kings and Lord of Lords, our Saviour, our Redeemer, our Advocate before the Father. It is He we want to look our best for and should.
 
Another thought on this: I remembered a discussion between my mother and me about modesty in cheap and pricey clothing. I didn´t saw this topic in the discussion above, but for me, it´s still worthy to think of for a moment.
Can a chanel dress that costs 3000 Dollar be called modest?
I stay with my opinion “it depends” but woukd like to bring this up. Modesty is not only about skirt length.
 
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Lea101 said:
Not all women who wear immodest clothing are trying to incite lust, especially if they’re at church. Especiallyyyy if the clothes they are wearing are relatively ‘normal’ in today’s culture (eg tank tops, skirts that are a little higher than the knees).
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Normal…in today’s culture? You see, that’s the thing. Anything goes in today’s culture! If wearing short tight form fitting dresses and tank tops is your thing, then go for it, I really don’t give a rat’s patoot. But why wear it at Mass? Why can’t you for that one hour wear something that’s considered modest, or conservative? Consider who you’re their to visit in the first place.

I feel that much of this lack of consideration for one’s appearance at Mass is related to the fall in percentage over the last several decades, of Catholic belief in the Real Presence. I believe, and this is just me, that if one truly, truly believed in the Real Presence in the Most Blessed Sacrament, then you’d see a swift and profound change in one’s attitude about this “controversial topic.”
 
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I don’t know. I think a space suit might actually… well, never mind. 🤐
 
Lea101 said:
Not to sound divisive or anything but honestlyyyyy, leave modesty talks to the women, especially women who know the current struggles women are facing. Guys always try their best and may mean well, but they always end up sounding tone deaf.
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Yeah. It’s an unusual man who understands the challenges of shopping for and dressing the adult female form. If you don’t regularly buy or wear women’s clothing, then you don’t have a lot to bring to that discussion.

(The guys are free to have a heated discussion of Duesenberg’s anathema against white socks with men’s suits, though.)
 
Who has actually watched Fr T.'s homily so far?
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FYI it starts around the 14 minute mark.
 
Duesenberg said:
So you admit to having issues with the all-male hierarchy of the Church? That’s fascinating to read. It’s also terribly deleterious to those who cling to such beliefs.
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I don’t think you understood what DarkLight said. She said:
Duesenberg said:
Because I want to be the equal of the man sitting next to me in the pew. I don’t want to be expected to conform my worship, not around God and my own conscience and the teaching of the Church, but around his desires.
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I take that to mean that DL does not need to jump to meet the expectations of every random dude in real life or the internet (3+ billion of them!), but that she does need to satisfy her conscience and live according to actual Church teachings.
 
lilypadrees said:
My main criteria is that I don’t want thin material that’s going to show my undergarments.
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One thing some of the menfolk may not realize is that a lot of white blouses can be pretty treacherous. You get better coverage (all things being equal) from colored tops.

Fashion note: The teen girl and I had a very successful outing to Old Navy recently. We got her some black pants, a white t-shirt, and a couple of loose over-shirts/tunics. I’m very pleased with the results, and so is the teen. But it is a LOT easier to be presentable in the cooler months than in the warmer months.
 
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