Two income households - moral implications

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Not sure if this is the right forum but here goes…

**If your household has two incomes and your neighbor has none, would you be willing to give up one of your incomes so that your neighbor might have one? **

The above statement is, of course, a gross simplification of a rather complex issue…But I think it does cut to the core of a moral issue that deserves to be addressed.
What are the moral implications of having two incomes when a neighbor, who could do that job, has none?

Thoughts???

Peace
James
 
I think it’s a nice idea, but not to the point that it disrupts your own stuff. I mean, make sure you have no major “unnecessary” expense (like buying gourmet food when the store brand is just as good), and then give them a little. Maybe you should ask them what they need most. Perhaps some grocery items might be needed. In this area, don’t buy what you wouldn’t eat. There’s nothing as bad as using a food bank and getting something that I wouldn’t feed to a dog I don’t like. Ok, off that little rant. Also, utilities. But watch out for bigger expenses. Find out what organizations that help in such situations. Some foodbanks won’t allow you to use it very often. Like, here, it’s only once every 8 weeks. And most of the food banks check to see if you’ve received from any other food bank in the same period. They don’t want it to be the only source of help.

If they are close to losing their house, you may offer to store a few of their things while they find something they can afford. Like public housing if they qualify. I’ve been on the “need help” side a couple of times in my life. The last time because the job I had wasn’t paying the bills. Give what you are called to give, but don’t forget the idea of 10% to God, 10% to savings.
 
Not sure if this is the right forum but here goes…

**If your household has two incomes and your neighbor has none, would you be willing to give up one of your incomes so that your neighbor might have one? **

The above statement is, of course, a gross simplification of a rather complex issue…But I think it does cut to the core of a moral issue that deserves to be addressed.
What are the moral implications of having two incomes when a neighbor, who could do that job, has none?

Thoughts???

Peace
James
You answered your own question with the statement that it is a gross simplification of a rather complex issue. The question also assumes that the neighbor is qualified to do one of the jobs, which is not always the case, and ignores the fact that two income families support the economy in other ways.

It is a complex issue. Many two income families spend their entire second paychecks to employ other people to do what SAHM used to do for free. (And then they frequently say they “have to work” because they haven’t looked at where they spend the money.) I know several female professionals who quit work to raise their families after seeing their entire paycheck spent on the nannies/daycare, housekeepers, gardeners, eating out, transportation, work clothes and taxes. Even if they just try to save it, their investment firm or bank probably takes a chunk of the money to employee people to manage the funds! All of the areas where they spend money supports employment for other people.

Also, what about people who don’t work for pay who may “take jobs” away from those who could be working? I do my own housework, when I could be employing someone to clean my house. Is that selfish of me? I even homeschool my own children, thus taking some work away from teachers and schools. What about all those volunteers at our parishes and schools, who do the type of jobs that some people could be getting paid for? I know someone who worked as a professional fundraiser, getting paid a decent salary (enough to buy a house and support a family) when in previous times and in some places still, “housewives” do that type of work for free. Should volunteers stop volunteering so that other people can be hired? Should stay-at-home-mothers go back to work to earn paychecks so that they can employ other people to clean their houses, do their laundry, cook their meals, and then donate any extra money to places that spend a portion of the money on professional fundraisers?

The SAHMs that I know usually do lots of things with their time that that other people get paid for doing. Funny but true, when I did some volunteer work in the area where I am professionally trained and regarded as an expert, some of my peers in that field weren’t too happy about me “working” for free. We can’t please everyone. 🤷

Perhaps some two income families should re-assess their work situations, but not just on some theoretical possibility that their unemployed neighbor will be able to go back to work. There’s no guarantee that their neighbor will be qualified to do the job, and if their other neighbor is their nanny, housekeeper or gardener, they might be putting that neighbor out of a job! They might even displace few other folks once they start volunteering. But…they should evaluate to see if they really “need” the second income the way they think they do, because as I mentioned above, it’s often spent on things they only “need” *because *they have two jobs. They may be able to afford for one to stay at home with the children–and perhaps they might even be able to afford more children than they think they can afford.

The moral implication as I see if for us as Catholics is that we need to be obedient to the Lord and open to His will for our lives.
 
Where I dwell many persons choose not to work because they state they are better off on
unemployment income based on their previous employment or on welfare than getting a
minimum wage job. They don’t want to work and they openly state as such for that reason.
Perhaps a better minimum wage pay scale would help this issue. Therefore if you offerred them a position/job paying less than welfare/unemployment they’d say NO and say so,

No, I don’t believe anyone need give up an income on the thought someone else might be willng, able or qualified to do that same position.
 
Where I dwell many persons choose not to work because they state they are better off on unemployment income based on their previous employment or on welfare than getting a minimum wage job. They don’t want to work and they openly state as such for that reason.
wow . . .do you live in Illinois? I believe Chicago has more unemployed than employed persons living there . . . .
 
wow . . .do you live in Illinois? I believe Chicago has more unemployed than employed persons living there . . . .
I live in a City in Iowa where we have a huge number of persons from Chicago due to the
generous benefits including welfare, sliding scale housing, and free medical insurance
for the needy. They state it’s much better than the benefits in Chicago.

Therefore I find it sad to think these persons cannot work for a decent living without giving
up their benefits. Minimum wage with reduced hours to avoid health care, loss of housing
subsidy, and welfare benefits for their children and themselves are not worth losing for
some job like that. They openly state as such here. It’s a sad reflection in our society where we have the working poor worse off than those receiving assistance.

Most would not be qualified for the positions the University offers due to increasing
requirements for these posistions including a Master’s Degree.
 
“No man has ever become wealthy by making another man poor.” Abraham Lincoln
 
Very interesting answers…

I note that only Mary actually answered the bolded question in the OP - and her answer was in the third person - and it was “No”.

Christy Beth seems to be working on the assumption that I meant “give up the income” as in giving more in charity…Actually I meant quit the job so that your neighbor might have that job…(assuming all equal in qualifications etc…

Gardenswithkids brings in a lot of the “complexities” that are always involved in putting something (seemingly simple) like this into practice…

MaryT hits on another difficult aspect that touches on some rather peculiar aspects of the “welfare state” - but really doesn’t effect what I was trying to get at from a “moral” standpoint.

DaddysGirl…Thank you for your kind words.

Tighty Whitey - I do not know how your statement applies to the discussion…

Perhaps I should try to clarify a bit…
I guess my idea is that moral questions - even complicated ones - need to be simplified if we are to gain understanding. The Parables of the NT were themselves often simplifications of situations and issues designed to get at the heart of an issue.

That is why I asked the question as I did. Would you be willing to give up one of your incomes (leave one of your jobs) so that your neighbor could have that job?
Assume all things are at least reasonably equal. Even assume that you both work for the same company in the same department at the same task…
Would you offer to resign so that your neighbor can retain their job?

In the larger sense…when a country has an unemployment rate of say 10% - it’s pretty sure that the unemployment is spread across many jobs, disciplines and levels. So - giving up a second income can very likely result in some neighbor (near or far) getting that job and taking him/her off the unemployment rolls.

Of course…Since employers don’t ask if your spouse is working as part of the interview process…I suppose one could argue that there is no guarantee that the job you leave will benefit a zero income family…🤷

It’s a difficult question - and I don’t guess I really expect to get answers that say - “Oh yes I would - in a heartbeat”…Or…“Of course…in fact I already have”…

But I must say that - in my heart - I find it difficult that there are so many two income families - and there are so many unemployed…It troubles my moral conscience.
Of course - I’m out of the workforce for the foreseeable future…but if an when I start looking for work…I hope there will be something available.

Peace
James
 
…Perhaps I should try to clarify a bit…
I guess my idea is that moral questions - even complicated ones - need to be simplified if we are to gain understanding. The Parables of the NT were themselves often simplifications of situations and issues designed to get at the heart of an issue.

That is why I asked the question as I did. Would you be willing to give up one of your incomes (leave one of your jobs) so that your neighbor could have that job?
Assume all things are at least reasonably equal. Even assume that you both work for the same company in the same department at the same task…
Would you offer to resign so that your neighbor can retain their job?

It’s a difficult question - and I don’t guess I really expect to get answers that say - “Oh yes I would - in a heartbeat”…Or…“Of course…in fact I already have”…

But I must say that - in my heart - I find it difficult that there are so many two income families - and there are so many unemployed…It troubles my moral conscience.
Of course - I’m out of the workforce for the foreseeable future…but if an when I start looking for work…I hope there will be something available.

Peace
James
Ah, I see your position and question more clearly now.

Drat. I was hoping someone would tell me that I have a moral duty to stop doing my own housework and hire a housekeeper. 😉

Kidding aside, I did quit my job several years ago, not with the motive of giving it to someone out of work, but that* was* one of the results. The person who took my job had been looking for work for a while and was thrilled to get the job. I remember training that person. I quit to stay at home and take care of my children–because I felt that is what God was calling me to do. I ended up having far more children than I initially had when I first quit working. While my answer was that I did do such a thing in the past, I don’t feel that’s neccesarily what I should do forever. There is nothing morally wrong with a family having two incomes, especially if they are godly people who share generously and who are open to God’s will in their lives.

May I share something that you may not have ever thought about? A lot of two income families think of that second income as sort of security blanket against job loss. When people see unemployment rates high like they are, even if they do have a job, they may not feel secure in it, especially if they work in the private sector in an area that’s struggling. I know it was (and still is) hard on my husband being the major breadwinner for our family.

I also see your point, especially if you are out of work and unable to find a job while seeing two income families all around you, it may seem “unfair” they they have two when some families have none. I do appreciate your point, but I truly believe that we as Catholics should encourage people to seek the will of God in their lives, including career matters, without telling other people what God wants them to do when He is not exactly clear.
 
Ah, I see your position and question more clearly now.

Drat. I was hoping someone would tell me that I have a moral duty to stop doing my own housework and hire a housekeeper. 😉

Kidding aside, I did quit my job several years ago, not with the motive of giving it to someone out of work, but that* was* one of the results. The person who took my job had been looking for work for a while and was thrilled to get the job. I remember training that person. I quit to stay at home and take care of my children–because I felt that is what God was calling me to do. I ended up having far more children than I initially had when I first quit working. While my answer was that I did do such a thing in the past, I don’t feel that’s neccesarily what I should do forever. There is nothing morally wrong with a family having two incomes, especially if they are godly people who share generously and who are open to God’s will in their lives.

**May I share something that you may not have ever thought about? A lot of two income families think of that second income as sort of security blanket against job loss. **When people see unemployment rates high like they are, even if they do have a job, they may not feel secure in it, especially if they work in the private sector in an area that’s struggling. I know it was (and still is) hard on my husband being the major breadwinner for our family.

I also see your point, especially if you are out of work and unable to find a job while seeing two income families all around you, it may seem “unfair” they they have two when some families have none. I do appreciate your point, but I truly believe that we as Catholics should encourage people to seek the will of God in their lives, including career matters, without telling other people what God wants them to do when He is not exactly clear.
Sorry - Can’t help you on the housecleaning bit…😛

RE: the bolded…I understand what you are saying here but I wonder…Is is right to have a “Security blanket” when a neighbor has no blanket at all?

Just a thought…

Peace
James
 
Sorry - Can’t help you on the housecleaning bit…😛

RE: the bolded…I understand what you are saying here but I wonder…Is is right to have a “Security blanket” when a neighbor has no blanket at all?

Just a thought…

Peace
James
I hear what you are saying, and sometimes it is the case where someone’s quitting leaves a job opening for someone else to take. In that case, if they knew their neighbor was out of work and experienced enough to do their exact job, it would be very generous of somone to arrange with their boss to hire the neighbor and quit to give the job to the neighbor. But other times, especially during a tough economy, their quitting may just mean that their former co-workers will have to do more work without more pay or any overtime hours because the company has placed a hiring freeze, while the neighbor remains out of work. Economics and job creation doesn’t always work “one out, one in”.

And, as I pointed out earlier, two income families often keep other people employed by spending that second income on things that many families who live on one income don’t. If the restaurants around me depended upon my family to keep their business open, they’d all shut down. (The same statement that applies for maid services. Alas, there’s no moral imperitive to eat out more and hire a housekeeper.)

Also, often the second income in a two income family is only a part time job that might not offer all the benefits and pay, so it might take two or three of those “second incomes” to create the type of job that could support a family.

In all honesty, I do sometimes wonder when both husband and wife work jobs that can support a family if they both really “need” to work and if they are “taking away” jobs from others as you suggest, BUT I also found many of those families at my children’s private Catholic high school paying for an expensive Catholic education and giving generously to the school and the Church. It’s not really our place to judge them, and we have a moral imperitive to be careful that we aren’t covetting what they have, (be it their fancy house, their job, or their housekeeper.)

Have you looked into volunteer work? It’s a way to build your resume and/or get your foot in the door at a company and meet people.
 
Would you be willing to give up one of your incomes (leave one of your jobs) so that your neighbor could have that job?
Assume all things are at least reasonably equal. Even assume that you both work for the same company in the same department at the same task…
Would you offer to resign so that your neighbor can retain their job?
No, I would not. I would help the person to find a job though. I don’t think I’d give up a shift so that someone else would have it. I’ve switched days with people (which resulted in me getting paid less), but I wouldn’t make a habit of it.
But I must say that - in my heart - I find it difficult that there are so many two income families - and there are so many unemployed…It troubles my moral conscience.
Of course - I’m out of the workforce for the foreseeable future…but if an when I start looking for work…I hope there will be something available.
It doesn’t trouble my moral conscience in the least that many families are two income families. There are some that have a problem with the fact that women are taking jobs because they feel that men would otherswise have those…I’m not one of those people either.
 
Not sure if this is the right forum but here goes…

**If your household has two incomes and your neighbor has none, would you be willing to give up one of your incomes so that your neighbor might have one? **

The above statement is, of course, a gross simplification of a rather complex issue…But I think it does cut to the core of a moral issue that deserves to be addressed.
What are the moral implications of having two incomes when a neighbor, who could do that job, has none?

Thoughts???

Peace
James
Uh no. If my neighbor doesn’t have an income, that’s his problem…not mine.

If you are thinking of a household who gives up an income so that either Mom or Dad can be a stay at home parent, that’s their decision and they have to live with the consequences. When my son was born, my then wife insisted on going back to work.
 
No, I would not. I would help the person to find a job though. I don’t think I’d give up a shift so that someone else would have it. I’ve switched days with people (which resulted in me getting paid less), but I wouldn’t make a habit of it.
Thanks for the straight up answer.
It doesn’t trouble my moral conscience in the least that many families are two income families. There are some that have a problem with the fact that women are taking jobs because they feel that men would otherwise have those…I’m not one of those people either.
Rence…It doesn’t trouble my moral conscience either that many families are two income families. The issue comes in when others, who could and would work, have no income.

Women working is a non-issue for me. If (in my perfect world) the wife has the higher income then the husband could be the one to give up the job for the benefit of the neighbor.

Peace
James
 
Not sure if this is the right forum but here goes…

**If your household has two incomes and your neighbor has none, would you be willing to give up one of your incomes so that your neighbor might have one? **

The above statement is, of course, a gross simplification of a rather complex issue…But I think it does cut to the core of a moral issue that deserves to be addressed.
What are the moral implications of having two incomes when a neighbor, who could do that job, has none?

Thoughts???

Peace
James
Who says your neighbor will get the job you give up? My neighbors are not qualified to do my job or my wife’s job.
 
I hear what you are saying, and sometimes it is the case where someone’s quitting leaves a job opening for someone else to take. In that case, if they knew their neighbor was out of work and experienced enough to do their exact job, it would be very generous of somone to arrange with their boss to hire the neighbor and quit to give the job to the neighbor. But other times, especially during a tough economy, their quitting may just mean that their former co-workers will have to do more work without more pay or any overtime hours because the company has placed a hiring freeze, while the neighbor remains out of work. Economics and job creation doesn’t always work “one out, one in”.
Very true…I’ve seen this happen myself. It can be tough on everybody.
And, as I pointed out earlier, two income families often keep other people employed by spending that second income on things that many families who live on one income don’t. If the restaurants around me depended upon my family to keep their business open, they’d all shut down. (The same statement that applies for maid services. Alas, there’s no moral imperative to eat out more and hire a housekeeper.)
What you say is true…the push and pull of economic forces makes any sort of “application” of the idea difficult.
I guess it’s mainly one of those moral mental exercises that I sometimes get into…Then I toss it out to see what others say…
Also, often the second income in a two income family is only a part time job that might not offer all the benefits and pay, so it might take two or three of those “second incomes” to create the type of job that could support a family.
Yes - obviously these kinds of jobs would not apply to our proposed moral thought process
In all honesty, I do sometimes wonder when both husband and wife work jobs that can support a family if they both really “need” to work and if they are “taking away” jobs from others as you suggest, BUT I also found many of those families at my children’s private Catholic high school paying for an expensive Catholic education and giving generously to the school and the Church. It’s not really our place to judge them, and we have a moral imperative to be careful that we aren’t coveting what they have, (be it their fancy house, their job, or their housekeeper.)
Don’t get me wrong…I’m not out to judge anyone…Mostly it’s just speculating. Rolling the idea around in my mind…considering the various aspects - like some of the things you have mentioned - and how they might effect a moral decision.
Have you looked into volunteer work? It’s a way to build your resume and/or get your foot in the door at a company and meet people.
Nope - I am voluntarily unemployed. My vocation at present is taking care of my wife who suffers from Alzheimer’s dementia so I have no opportunity to volunteer.
However - I suspect that I have too much time to think sometimes…:D…then I come up with these questions.

Peace
James
 
Who says your neighbor will get the job you give up? My neighbors are not qualified to do my job or my wife’s job.
Well- - - somewhere in the city is a “neighbor” who probably could do one of these jobs - and that is the neighbor who would get it.

Peace
James
 
I have no problem answering with a “no”. Jobs simply are not a fluid asset. The question assumes that which is not possible.

The extent one should provide charity to others is based on resources, not the number of jobs in a family.
 
Well- - - somewhere in the city is a “neighbor” who probably could do one of these jobs - and that is the neighbor who would get it.

Peace
James
But that assumes that the “neighbor” is unemployed. AND they are qualified.

The last job filled in my husband’s department was filled by someone from out of town. They relocated. And they already had a job. They worked out two weeks notice, then moved. 🤷

So someone giving up their job with the assumption that an unemployed “neighbor” would benefit doesn’t make sense.

(Full disclosure, our household holds only one job, my husband’s)
 
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