two JWs at my door today.

[BibleSteve]

Another “insincere” critic, eh Steve?
So JWs can read HEARTS now?
They SAY that they can’t
but BEHAVE as if they can.

Anyone who preframes a question by insulting me and my religion isn’t showing signs of sincerity.

Seems pretty obvious.

Especially after talking to thousands of people over many years.

You tend to be able to notice those interested in civil discussion and those who just want to insult.

 

[flyersfan1088]

With 661 posts on my account, I think the facts speak otherwise.

It was obvious to me the person dumping the questions didn’t have any real interest. He just wanted to insult me, demand I spend my time dealing with his claims…

He was just acting as Paul refered to with “foolish questioning”

Steve

When others said they were good questions and would like to know the answers, you asked to go to PM. It would have taken the same number of keystrokes to respond by forum or PM. Maybe you could have been a good witness for others lurking on the forum. Instead you look like you’re hiding something. Just my honest observation, right or wrong.

 

[BibleSteve]

I recommend …also, watchtower.org, the official JW site because at least the last time I visited it, it had the booklet SHOULD YOU BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY?

Yes, great recommendation.

Here it is: watchtower.org/e/ti/index.htm

 

[teachccd]

Teachccd,

I’m sorry we don’t agree on this.

As a Christian, I look to Jesus and the example of his life. I look to his Apostles. No where do I see them encouraging their followers to take up arms against other Christians in other countries. I don’t see any Bible examples of Jesus and his disciples marching into other lands to kill others. Do you?

It is sad that over 100 Million people have died in war in the 20th century. In many cases, there was Christian clergy on both sides of the war, telling the young recuits to kill those on the other side. Christian killing Christian.

Protecting your family against an intruder is not the same training for battle, taking up arms, and going to kill other Christians in a foreign lands who are also being told my their government and clergy to kill their US opponents.

JW’s have refused to kill others even under the penalty of death. German JW’s were tortured and executed for their refusal to kill US soldiers. US Jehovah’s Witnesses were also tortured and persecuted for refusing to kill.

100 Million people killed in war. Christian killing Christian.

Not one kill by one of JW’s.

We took execution and violent persecution before violating Christ’s example.

I’m sorry we disagree.

Actually you disagree with yourself everytime you utilize the freedoms won for you through battle.

You still avoided my question. I’ll try it one last time. If you have difficulty answering it, just say so and I will respect that.

How is it that you enjoy the freedom won for you to go door to door by those who shed their blood in a way that totally goes against your beliefs? Please just address this question. thank you… teachccd

 

[Jaypeeto4]

US Jehovah’s Witnesses were also tortured and persecuted for refusing to kill.

Now, I know that the US government didn’t want to give conscientious objector status to JWs and threw some of them in jail for not serving (they could have served in a non-combatant capacity, by the way. They were jailed for refusing to serve their country, not for refusing to kill). But tell us who were the JWs that the US Government TORTURED for refusing to fight?
JWs didn’t even make THIS claim back when I was a JW.

I know that Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia tortured and killed JWs. There was mob violence in some cities of the US against JWs, and this was mainly during Rutherford’s time. While I don’t and won’t condone such behavior, if you ever get a chance to listen to the vile speeches Rutherford was having the Witnesses play in neighborhoods on record players attached to loudspeakers, you might understand why some sensitive people were stirred up to rage against the JWs.
They were persecuted, in these instances, for being cantakerous, slanderous and obnoxious, not for righteousness’s sake.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[BibleSteve]

Actually you disagree with yourself everytime you utilize the freedoms won for you through battle.

You still avoided my question. I’ll try it one last time. If you have difficulty answering it, just say so and I will respect that.

How is it that you enjoy the freedom won for you to go door to door by those who shed their blood in a way that totally goes against your beliefs? Please just address this question. thank you… teachccd

Preaching the Bible’s message of God’s Kingdom was a command made by Christ. It occurs throughout the world independant of permission of governments.

If the nations want to kill each other in war, JW’s don’t prevent them, or demonstrate against them.

We attend to the command and example given by Christ. In nations where freedom of speech is possible, we do our preaching openly. In nations where freedom of speech isn’t available, we still continue the preaching work covertly.

In all lands, we strictly follow the laws of the land, as far as they don’t conflict with God’s laws.

Matt 24:14

 

[teachccd]

Yes, great recommendation.

Here it is: watchtower.org/e/ti/index.htm

I have that booklet given to me by a JW. I showed him how the Church Fathers were misquoted and how you guys use no references in your quotes for further research. That booklet is one of the most misguided works I’ve seen . I read it in its entirety and it is indeed a shambles. If I had all night I could point out the misconceptions and twisted information. It takes the Early Church Father’s quotes completely out of context, as most of your literature does and I’ve shown him that also.

I asked him why there are never any references to the quotes in your literature and he said that he didn’t know. Well after just a little research, I do. Because if you saw the whole truth you would leave your organization in a heartbeat for how much misleading information you receive without your ability to discern for yourself.

 

[teachccd]

Preaching the Bible’s message of God’s Kingdom was a command made by Christ. It occurs throughout the world independant of permission of governments.

If the nations want to kill each other in war, JW’s don’t prevent them, or demonstrate against them.

We attend to the command and example given by Christ. In nations where freedom of speech is possible, we do our preaching openly. In nations where freedom of speech isn’t available, we still continue the preaching work covertly.

In all lands, we strictly follow the laws of the land, as far as they don’t conflict with God’s laws.

Matt 24:14

Still won for you by the blood of soldiers. You reap the benefits of those you oppose. How hypocritical can a group be. Freedom of speach was won by bloodshed and you should not avail yourselves to such amenities unless you believe they were won for you worthily. You do not and should therefore not exercise a freedom that came from a practice that you oppose.

Sorry, but you still did not answer my question.

 

[teachccd]

In all lands, we strictly follow the laws of the land, as far as they don’t conflict with God’s laws.

Even if those laws were granted by loss of life. How can you preach a two sided coin??

 

[lands]

Just curious. Do jw’s ever go to a bishop’s or priest residence trying to convert?

 

[BibleSteve]

Teachccd,

Jesus and his apostles preached. It was what they were commanded to do. Jesus commanded Christians to imitate his example (Matt 28:19, 20; Matt 24:14)

If you can point me to a Scripture that shows Jesus or his Apostles in battle training, ready to haul over to the next country to kill other Christians, we can continue discussing your point.

Otherwise, I think we just disagree.

 

[BibleSteve]

Just curious. Do jw’s ever go to a bishop’s or priest residence trying to convert?

Yes, Jehovah’s Witnesses knock on every door to present the message of God’s incoming Kingdom.

One of the latest WT magazines illustrates a JW talking to a priest in his black suit and white collar.

Steve

 

[teachccd]

Teachccd,

Jesus and his apostles preached. It was what they were commanded to do. Jesus commanded Christians to imitate his example (Matt 28:19, 20; Matt 24:14)

If you can point me to a Scripture that shows Jesus or his Apostles in battle training, ready to haul over to the next country to kill other Christians, we can continue discussing your point.

Otherwise, I think we just disagree.

We cannot disagree on a question that you simply refuse to answer. But this is not unlike the many JW’s that I’ve spoken with. You do the dance around the question routine and then say that we just simply disagree.

Again, I ask, How can you enjoy the benefits of a freedom won for you by the very acts that you condemn?? Jesus did not fight in any war except for shedding His blood in the war against sin.

So how about my question?? My exact question and not about preaching but how you utilize the freedom won for you by the bloodshed that you oppose. If you cannot answer my exact question just say so and I will respect that.

So, one last time. How do you enjoy the benefits won for you by the very acts of violence that you condemn? Someone died for you in a war so that you can push my doorbell. How can you push my doorbell in the freedom won for you by bloodshed??

 

[teachccd]

Yes, Jehovah’s Witnesses knock on every door to present the message of God’s incoming Kingdom.

One of the latest WT magazines illustrates a JW talking to a priest in his black suit and white collar.

Steve

I asked the JW that I know who has been a JW for 55 years and he said that he has never approached a priest and would be afraid to do so. I’m not implying that he speaks for all JW’s but he didn’t seem thrilled when I invited him to come to my Church and speak with a priest. I didn’t force the issue and neither did he.

 

[Gara3987]

I also have to say something else.
I’ve been to the carm.org website.
While much of what they say about the Watchtower
is true enough, carm.org has flaws of it’s own,
and is not the most reliable place for Catholics to go
to learn about the Watchtower Society.

I recommend Jeffery Schehm’s website catholicxjw.com and,
also, watchtower.org, the official JW site because at least the last time I visited it, it had the booklet SHOULD YOU BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY? online.

Read that booklet at the JW official website, then get out your copy of the Early Church Fathers, whom the Society purports to quote from in support of their denial of the Full deity of Christ.
You will see that the Society slanders the early church fathers, even going so far as to falsely claim that Justin Martyr called the prehuman Jesus a “created angel.” This is bunk. Ante-Nicene Fathers volume 1 contains the complete texts of Justin Martyr’s writings (published by Eerdman’s), and Justin clearly, repeatedly, emphatically, and undeniably teaches that Jesus Christ is fully and equally God together with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
That, friends, is the quintessential doctrine of the Trinity even though Justin doesn’t use the WORD, “trinity.”
You can prove the Society a liar by using their own claims at their website, checking their claims against the writings of the early Christian Church Fathers. So definitely use watchtower.org as a resource. Just have the works they quote from handy.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

I will keep that in mind thanks for the info.

 

[Dauphin]

FYI…

JW’s have every house, in every town, in every state, in every country covered.

How’re things goin for you guys in Saudi Arabia?

The CIA world factbook seems to think that the Muslim population is 100%… how do the JWs go undetected???

 

[ishii]

A question that I have, Why are you not willing to answer any of these questions in the Open?

At least one or two of them

Is there something that concerns you? Like someone might come forward and correct you on the spot?

Here just answer two of them for everyone here.

• In the sermon on the mount, when Jesus was addressing the “great crowd” (Lk 6:17), why did he tell them in Lk 6:22-23, “…your reward is great in heaven …”?
• The Bible says that ONLY God is our savior (Hos 13:4, Isa 43:11,45:21, etc.). How can it be then, that the Bible repeatedly says that Jesus Christ is our savior (Lk 2:11, Phil 3:20, Tit 2:13, 3:6, 2Pet 1:1, 2:20, 3:18, etc.)?
  These two will due fine, these ones interest me a little more than the rest.

Bible Steve, why don’t you answer Gara3987’s perfectly reasonable and sincere questions? You complained of being dumped upon, and insulted. Then you were asked two very good questions and have not answered them. If you can’t answer them, then I have to conclude your earlier non-answers to previous questions and all your complaining to be nothing more than a big bluff. Perhaps I am wrong there. Could you answer those two questions? If you are going to come to this site and advocate for the cult of Jehovah’s Witnessism then you should expect to be asked lots of questions. If all you do is refer us to the watchtower then I have to conclude that you aren’t able to answer, or are afraid to engage us here out of fear that you will be exposed. So please answer those questions and one more, if you can: when Jesus said to Peter, “you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Why do you think that Jesus said " the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" ? How do you reconcile the belief of the JW’s that the Catholic Church founded by Christ is a false one, yet Jesus promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it? So those are three questions that I would like you to answer. Waiting… Ishii.

 

[pete_29]

Yes, Jehovah’s Witnesses knock on every door to present the message of God’s incoming Kingdom.

One of the latest WT magazines illustrates a JW talking to a priest in his black suit and white collar.

Steve

I want to thank you BibleSteve. I have two cousins that are JW’s, and your refusal or inability to put up any defense of your faith has convinced me that I should help them find their way back to the Catholic Church.

 

[BibleSteve]

I want to thank you BibleSteve. I have two cousins that are JW’s, and your refusal or inability to put up any defense of your faith has convinced me that I should help them find their way back to the Catholic Church.

Pete,

You’re fooling yourself and you apparently love it.

I spend plenty of time answering questions and defending my faith. In fact, I have over 600 posts here.

However, I don’t spend my time jumping to answer questions from those who throw out insults as they are posting their questions.

I’m just following the apostle Paul’s advice in this.

 

[pete_29]

Pete,

You’re fooling yourself and you apparently love it.

I spend plenty of time answering questions and defending my faith. In fact, I have over 600 posts here.

However, I don’t spend my time jumping to answer questions from those who throw out insults as they are posting their questions.

I’m just following the apostle Paul’s advice in this.

Why are you insulting me . My thanks was sincere. Many people on this forum don’t have the time to go through 600 posts to find what you believe, so please answer the questions.