Two lesbians raised a baby and this is what they got.

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My personal opinion and I’m not priest obviously, is focus on living your own life right. How do we do that? Love God with all our heart soul and mind and love our neighbor as ourselves. This is what Jesus Christ has told us to do directly. He said these are the most important commandments. That’s what I try to focus on. Try. I make a lot of mistakes and I have to repent. Like a minute ago, I shouldn’t have gone off on those people but at that moment, I felt it, now I ask God to forgive me if I have offended God’s people. I just do my repentance as I go so I don’t keep it building up on me. I find myself saying oops God forgive me a lot but I see it as an ongoing relationship that we have. I pray constantly just for guidance. “Should I go left or right God.” “Ok we’re going left, I hope I understood.” It’s a bit unorthodox but I feel him with me all the time when I do it that way. The biggest thing for me is to not judge people. Let God do that we are just here to love them. Love love love love love love. That is all through Christ;s message. If I am doing that, I feel like I can face God when it’s my time. I have my sins and I work on them as I go. I see you doing well by loving everyone. God loves people who love. Just think, when you meet him you can say “God, I just tried to love your people” You have a conscience, just keep that baby clear, pray, love, study the word, congregate, you’ll be fine. Have no fear God will take care of you. Ask and you will receive seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened unto you sister!
 
Posts like that help me find clarity when it comes to religion, so really, thank you 🙂 That’s why I joined these forums and so far the answers haven’t been pretty.
 
speakttruth said:
Homosexuality means acts, that is a mortal sin. The inclination to Same sex attraction is not a sin. The courage web site gives you a much better picture of how we should view homosexuality. No one is condemning the person to hell, only God can do that, but we are to judge right from wrong. You can judge the actions are immoral and speak the truth. Do you judge pornography to be wrong.? You are obligated to do that. What is wrong with some of you? Ask one of the moderators on here if you don’t understand your faith. There is also a priest on here. Are you on here to learn your faith or argue for homosexuality. Go to another site if you don’t want to follow the Catholic faith, we are not here to hear heresies. We don’t follow the world, we are Catholics. This is a Catholic Forum.
God have mercy on us all!
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I would suggest you examine yourself and learn your own faith and stop judging others and preaching.

.
 
Religion aside, this man is very talented. What a great speaker! He certainly got his point across and then some.
 
kelcca said:
Being homosexual is a sin, have homosexual thoughts is a sin and being involved in the homosexually life style is a sin. Regardless of what the church say’s or what the CCC say’s it is a grave sin, and for some one to be referring to themselves as a celebrate homosexual christian or catholic is a sin and totally delusional on there part. For a man to lust after a woman in thought or action is a sin say’s Jesus, so therefore for a gay man to lust after another man in thought or in action is a sin. But this is how the new catholic church and new ccc twist the words of God and the faith. There is no place for people who are openly supporting or practicing homosexuality in the church, and I should know I was a militant, left wing, bisexual man and I can tell you from experience it is a life style from hell.
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If you do not want to follow the Cathechism or the Church, please do not put forward your views as Catholic. Being homosexual itself (having same sex attraction) is not a sin the Church says.
New Catholic Church, New CCC? What is this about?
 
Being homosexual itself (having same sex attraction) is most certainly a sin, and I am speaking from experience, are you? To identify yourself as gay is against God .There is nothing holy or normal about lusting after another man. There are several CCC , the new one is very politically correct and even anti catholic and anti Jesus in many of it’s teachings. The teaching of the Church fathers and the catechism of the council of Trent are at odds with a lot of what is in the new CCC. Pre Vatican 2 is much more Catholic and Christian in it’s theology and morals. Homosexuality, sex before marriage, rape, adultery and bestiality are all actions that fall under the category of “sexual immorality”. Sexual immorality is a sin and if not repented of, will cost a person their soul (Revelation 21:8, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21). Acting upon one’s immoral attraction is sinful whether it be a man having sex with a man, or a married women having sex with a man other than her husband. Matthew 5:27-28 “ You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart”. One would assume that this teaching would apply for same sex lust as well. When one allows that temptation to become a mental fantasy it is sinful and when that fantasy becomes a reality, it will destroy. This would be the same for a heterosexual sinful desire as well. Below are just a few quotes that would be in contrast with modern Catholic teachings and the CCC.

The fate of the Sodomites was judgment to those who had done wrong, and instruction to those who hear. The Sodomites had fallen into uncleanness through much luxury. They practiced adultery shamelessly, and they burned with insane love for boys. (195 A.D) (Clement of Alexandria)

The sin of Sodom is contrary to nature. (390 A.D) (Apostolic Constitutions).

It is well that they should be cut off from the lusts of the world, since “every lust wars against the spirit’ and “neither fornicators, nor homosexual… will inherit the kingdom of God.” Clement of Rome

The Greeks, O King, follow debased practices in intercourse with males, or with mothers, sisters and daughters. Yet, they, in turn, impute their monstrous impurity to the Christians. Aristides

“You shall not be a corrupter of boys, nor like unto such.” St. Barnabas

“Some polluted themselves by lying with males. The Greeks, O King, follow debased practices in intercourse with males, or with mothers, sisters, and daughters. Yet, they, in turn impute their monstrous impurity to the Christians.” St. Aristides,

“He who is guilty of unseemliness with males will be under discipline for the same time as adulterers.” St. Basil the Great

“Those shameful acts against nature, such as were committed in Sodom, ought everywhere and always to be detested and punished. If all nations were to do such things, they would be held guilty of the same crime by the law of God, which has not made men so that they should use one another in this way.” St. Augustine,

" All other frenzies of the lusts which exceed the laws of nature, and are impious toward both [human] bodies and the sexes, we banish, not only from the threshold but also from all shelter of the Church, for they are not sins so much as monstrosities" 220AD Tertullian

“Sins against nature, therefore, like the sin of Sodom, are abominable and deserve punishment whenever and wherever they are committed. If all nations committed them, all alike would be held guilty of the same charge in God’s law, for our Maker did not prescribe that we should use each other in this way. In fact, the relationship that we ought to have with God is itself violated when our nature, of which He is Author, is desecrated by perverted lust.” Bishop of Hippo

“All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more prejudiced and degraded by sin than is the body by disease; but the worst of all passions is lust between men…. The sins against nature are more difficult and less rewarding, since true pleasure is only the one according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned upside down! Therefore, not only are their passions [of the homosexuals] satanic, but their lives are diabolic…… So I say to you that these are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body…… There is nothing, absolutely nothing more mad or damaging than this perversity.” St. John Chrysostom

"No sin has greater power over the soul than the one of cursed sodomy, which was always detested by all those who lived according to God…… Such passion for undue forms borders on madness. This vice disturbs the intellect, breaks an elevated and generous state of soul, drags great thoughts to petty ones, makes [men] pusillanimous and irascible, obstinate and hardened, servilely soft and incapable of anything. Furthermore, the will, being agitated by the insatiable drive for pleasure, no longer follows reason, but furor…. Someone who lived practicing the vice of sodomy will suffer more pains in Hell than any one else, because this is the worst sin that there is.” St.Bernardine of Siena
 
Severus, before you respond to kelcca, listen to what he is actually saying.
kelcca said:
Being homosexual is a sin, have homosexual thoughts is a sin and being involved in the homosexually life style is a sin. Regardless of what the church say’s or what the CCC say’s it is a grave sin, and for some one to be referring to themselves as a celebrate homosexual christian or catholic is a sin and totally delusional on there part. For a man to lust after a woman in thought or action is a sin say’s Jesus, so therefore for a gay man to lust after another man in thought or in action is a sin. But this is how the new catholic church and new ccc twist the words of God and the faith. There is no place for people who are openly supporting or practicing homosexuality in the church, and I should know I was a militant, left wing, bisexual man and I can tell you from experience it is a life style from hell.
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He is saying that being attracted to a man is the same as being attracted to a woman, which is sinful.
So therefore it is against Church law to be attracted to either (and as a bisexual, kelcca was doubly bad). But after he’s disqualified men, women, and animals, I’m not sure what this leaves, though… buildings? Trees? Maybe we should be attracted to asparagus.

See according to kelcca, looking at a woman with lust is the same as sleeping with her, so looking at a man with lust is the same as sleeping with him.

There is so much wrong with this level of logic, the only way he could possibly support it is that he doesn’t think about it logically. You cannot help this man. Kelcca will believe whatever he wants to believe. It’s best to just ignore him.
 
See according to kelcca, looking at a woman with lust is the same as sleeping with her, so looking at a man with lust is the same as sleeping with him.

There is so much wrong with this level of logic, the only way he could possibly support it is that he doesn’t think about it logically. You cannot help this man. Kelcca will believe whatever he wants to believe. It’s best to just ignore him.

Your problem is not with me it is with Jesus and the writings of the Church Fathers and the Saints.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away! It is better to lose one of your members than to have your whole body thrown into hell. 30 If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away! It is better to lose one of your members than to have your whole body go into hell (Matthew 5:27-30).

There it is straight from the mouth of God, how you can even argue with the word of God is beyond me. To look is a sin, to have thoughts is a sin/ WHY? Because we are in a constant stat of sin. The ignorance of Catholics about the Bible and the teachings of Jesus never seems to stop amazing me.
 
kelcca said:
Being homosexual itself (having same sex attraction) is most certainly a sin, and I am speaking from experience, are you? To identify yourself as gay is against God .There is nothing holy or normal about lusting after another man. There are several CCC , the new one is very politically correct and even anti catholic and anti Jesus in many of it’s teachings. The teaching of the Church fathers and the catechism of the council of Trent are at odds with a lot of what is in the new CCC. Pre Vatican 2 is much more Catholic and Christian in it’s theology and morals. Homosexuality, sex before marriage, rape, adultery and bestiality are all actions that fall under the category of “sexual immorality”. Sexual immorality is a sin and if not repented of, will cost a person their soul (Revelation 21:8, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21). Acting upon one’s immoral attraction is sinful whether it be a man having sex with a man, or a married women having sex with a man other than her husband. Matthew 5:27-28 “ You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart”. One would assume that this teaching would apply for same sex lust as well. When one allows that temptation to become a mental fantasy it is sinful and when that fantasy becomes a reality, it will destroy. This would be the same for a heterosexual sinful desire as well. Below are just a few quotes that would be in contrast with modern Catholic teachings and the CCC.

The fate of the Sodomites was judgment to those who had done wrong, and instruction to those who hear. The Sodomites had fallen into uncleanness through much luxury. They practiced adultery shamelessly, and they burned with insane love for boys. (195 A.D) (Clement of Alexandria)

The sin of Sodom is contrary to nature. (390 A.D) (Apostolic Constitutions).

It is well that they should be cut off from the lusts of the world, since “every lust wars against the spirit’ and “neither fornicators, nor homosexual… will inherit the kingdom of God.” Clement of Rome

The Greeks, O King, follow debased practices in intercourse with males, or with mothers, sisters and daughters. Yet, they, in turn, impute their monstrous impurity to the Christians. Aristides

“You shall not be a corrupter of boys, nor like unto such.” St. Barnabas

“Some polluted themselves by lying with males. The Greeks, O King, follow debased practices in intercourse with males, or with mothers, sisters, and daughters. Yet, they, in turn impute their monstrous impurity to the Christians.” St. Aristides,

“He who is guilty of unseemliness with males will be under discipline for the same time as adulterers.” St. Basil the Great

“Those shameful acts against nature, such as were committed in Sodom, ought everywhere and always to be detested and punished. If all nations were to do such things, they would be held guilty of the same crime by the law of God, which has not made men so that they should use one another in this way.” St. Augustine,

" All other frenzies of the lusts which exceed the laws of nature, and are impious toward both [human] bodies and the sexes, we banish, not only from the threshold but also from all shelter of the Church, for they are not sins so much as monstrosities" 220AD Tertullian

“Sins against nature, therefore, like the sin of Sodom, are abominable and deserve punishment whenever and wherever they are committed. If all nations committed them, all alike would be held guilty of the same charge in God’s law, for our Maker did not prescribe that we should use each other in this way. In fact, the relationship that we ought to have with God is itself violated when our nature, of which He is Author, is desecrated by perverted lust.” Bishop of Hippo

“All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more prejudiced and degraded by sin than is the body by disease; but the worst of all passions is lust between men…. The sins against nature are more difficult and less rewarding, since true pleasure is only the one according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned upside down! Therefore, not only are their passions [of the homosexuals] satanic, but their lives are diabolic…… So I say to you that these are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body…… There is nothing, absolutely nothing more mad or damaging than this perversity.” St. John Chrysostom

"No sin has greater power over the soul than the one of cursed sodomy, which was always detested by all those who lived according to God…… Such passion for undue forms borders on madness. This vice disturbs the intellect, breaks an elevated and generous state of soul, drags great thoughts to petty ones, makes [men] pusillanimous and irascible, obstinate and hardened, servilely soft and incapable of anything. Furthermore, the will, being agitated by the insatiable drive for pleasure, no longer follows reason, but furor…. Someone who lived practicing the vice of sodomy will suffer more pains in Hell than any one else, because this is the worst sin that there is.” St.Bernardine of Siena
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Being homosexual is not a sin, carrying on homosexual activities is a sin. That is the position of the Church.

You appear to have an issue with the Church and our current Catechism. Perhaps you should work this out with your priest? The Church today does not condone sin of any kind, sexual or otherwise.

You appear to be focussing on sin and to be torn apart by your past behaviour. Perhaps you should focus on Christ who is all loving and all forgiving and your spiritual development.
 
Catechesis on Homosexuality: Making the Distinctions from this website that is approved by the church to help people with SSA live a chaste life. www.couragerc.net
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If someone here is obviously trying to say the Catholic Church is wrong in her teaching on homosexuality, I have ever right and obligation to correct them. I am not saying I know everything, I am still learning my faith and we will never know everything, but I am very informed of that subject because I have a loved one that is confused with SSA and also have gone to several Courage conferences and have been learning about this for four years… Your statements are judgmental of MY comments. Look in your Catechism and see how they explain it. It’s the same as the what I have gotten from the Courage site because they teach confused people the Catechism.

As I stated before temptation is not a sin and neither is the attraction. SSA is a disordered attraction, but not acting out on it and still having the problem is not sinful. That is called a homosexual inclination. We don’t use the word homosexual or gay,when we talk about the condition of a person’s sexual attraction, it’s SSA, in the Courage site for men and women struggling or Encourage site for us that have loved ones in that life. We also refer to people that are active or agree with it, PPH ( People pushing or practicing Homosexuality.) People who have this are not culpable of the attraction only the acting out of it. The church states this. If you look at someone and find them attractive, but turn away from thinking about them and DO NOT entertain sexual thoughts of a person you are not sinning. A thought is not a sin. Lusting at looking at someone is not just a thought that pops in your head, lust is saying to yourself I want to have sex with that person and start daydreaming about it and entertaining yourself with the fantasy. The thought is tempting you, but if you don’t want to think that way, then you turn away from it. Concupiscence.
Which we all have it. If you don’t understand your faith then some of the moderators on here are very good at explaining it as well . The article explains it as well. Please be charitable on here it is a Catholic Forum.
God bless
 
Tigress said:
What? I don’t judge people by right or wrong actions as a person. I’ve known sweet, loving, kind, intelligent, and overall wonderful people who’ve made horrible choices (having sex from age eleven up, stealing, etc) but even though they’re not the ideal human I still love them for who they really are.

I said that I will not judge someone, I will not hate someone, and I will not deem someone evil for something as trivial as sexual preference. I am proud to live in a society where someone doesn’t have to become a victim of prestigious just for being open and for accepting that of which they can’t control. If people like that are going to Hell, the people who are open minded and forgiving enough to love someone for who they are not the simplest of choices they make, then bring me to Hell. I’m sure, by that logic, that I’ll get along just fine.

I’m sorry, but if “loving thy neighbor” without limitation makes me a sinner, well…

But hey, maybe it’s because I’m new to this. Maybe it was because I was born and raised without religion. Because of that I was raised to love freely without limitation. I was raised not to judge. I was never told homosexuality is “bad”, I was simply taught that we are all humans. So sorry if not wanting to judge someone makes me a bad person and means I’m heading to the gates of hell.

I’m not talking about God, I’m talking about me. I find it wrong for a human to judge and hate an other human over sexuality.
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You misunderstand what I am saying. We shouldn’t hate anyone, where did I say that? A murderer can act loving and sweet, so we don’t judge what he is doing? We don’t tell him it’s wrong because he has some good behaviors? We can’t condemn him to hell, God’s job, but we most certainly have to discern from right and wrong and we are obligated as Catholics to love someone in truth, not tell them it’s OK because they may be a nice person in your mind. Having sex outside of marriage of a man and a women is wrong whether your homosexual or heterosexual. Single people are called to a chaste life period. I never was talking about the attraction. They can not help it, but like anything we want to desire, if it’s wrong and sinful we don’t act out on it. That is when your sinning and some grievously. That’s our Catholic faith and we don’t pick and choose like a Cafeteria Catholic does, which I used to be, if we want to follow our faith. You don’t have to understand it, but you have to believe all of it, or none of it.
God Bless
 
Once again your are not arguing with me but with the words of God and the writings of the saints and Church Fathers, who have said over and over again homosexuality is evil and a sin, just to identify yourself as a homosexually is sinful and a false identity because that is not how God made you or see’s you. Who care’s what the CCC say’s , I take my morals from the Bible and the saints. These Courage conferences and groups are leading gay’s astray and lying to them. The best thing that happened to me was some one being honest with me and telling me that being gay and identifying myself as a gay/bi man was sinful.
 
When you go to confession their is an examination of conscience. Some on line are even more specific and more informative, so their is no doubt. It tells you what is a mortal sin. Faith and good works go together, good works by themselves don’t mean anything if you don’t live by the Catholic faith. I know it’s hard for you to understand but it is easier to live when you follow your faith. God takes away earthly desires when you get close to him. If your getting confused, it’s Satan way of confusing you. He wants you to live for the world and not follow Jesus. Jesus is love, but he talks a lot about hell in the scriptures because people were not following the commandments and were being influence by false prophets and bowing to idols.

Read the scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to help you. Listen to some really good faithful priests. Fr. Baron is excellent and has a good site the Word on fire and it is all about Catholicism. EWTN is excellent. Going to daily mass has helped me tremendously, adoration, frequent confession. I was not a faithful Catholic before and God has transformed me into a new creation and I have never been happier. Just being nice isn’t what it is all about, it’s called being charitable. We love someone to tell them the truth when they go astray. If we lie to them so that they don’t feel bad, we have done the opposite of what we are commanded to do. We don’t go along to get along. We are going to be persecuted for it. God came and saved the world, but he didn’t say we won’t suffer.
We want the best for everyone that’s why we have to tell them the truth, but some people are blinded by the truth because of they way they feel. We can trick ourselves if we go by our feelings, but using our intelligence we see that we can deceive ourselves. We must be always be working toward perfecting ourselves and becoming more Christlike. Jesus was very firm when he you told someone that they were sinning. The women that was being stoned for adultery, was told that to go and sin no more and he said that he didn’t come to condemn her.
He came for us sinners because we needed a savior…

When I was first converted I worried about how I may be sinning about everything. It’s called being over scrupulous and Satan loves to see you just worry about it and not have the peace that God gives you. It takes time to learn your faith, it wasn’t over night and it’s never over. Find a good spiritual director to help you in your doubts. Some of the advice you have been given, is not truthful, it’s being a Luke warm Catholic. Jesus warned against people like that. He said let your no be no and your yes be yes, but it is worse to be luke warm. A lot of people complain when they are told to follow your faith, it’s just about loving Jesus and everything will be fine, no, it’s also about following God commandments which is loving God first and foremost and that is loving Jesus.
Code: 
Jesus warns us from the very beginning to follow his Father, when he talked about marriage,  he only spoke of it between a man and a women to come together as one flesh,  like the Father has said in Genesis.  Look in the scriptures about Marriage.  Even Peter said it,  St Paul talk about it.   Why wouldn't Jesus say, because there was homosexuality back then, that by the way, homosexuals who love one another can get married too?   He said if you have lust in your heart it would be better for you to marry and he said that about a women to a man and vice versa.  otherwise stay single, no other choices that he gave. There are plenty of scriptures that hold on to a marriage only between a man and women.  It's not true that no where does it talk about marriage.  Just those two statements from Jesus alone was proof what God wanted for us.   Besides the biological fact of our very bodies.   Anyway, sorry to ramble,  I hope you understand, I want heaven for you too.
God bless

QUOTE=Tigress;9123580]What isn’t a mortal sin!?

Honestly I have no idea what any of that means.Honestly I have no knowledge on anything at all when it comes to the stricter part of religion as I was raised loosely within the confines of Christianity. I was taught that good people who are nice and forgiving go to Heaven and evil people like killers and blokes of the sort go to Hell. Simple.
Then I go to this forum and everything about my belief system has been turned on its head. I guess I’m going to Hell, then, even though I donate to charities, pray every night, volunteer and local animal shelters, work as a foster owner, and volunteer at the zoo- all at the age of fourteen. So be it. No, I’m not trying to commit vanity or anything; I’m not saying I’m perfect, but I’m saying something like being “pro-marriage” (is that the term?), but I’m trying to make a point- I do just as many good things as I do bad.
 
speakttruth said:
Then I go to this forum and everything about my belief system has been turned on its head. I guess I’m going to Hell, then, even though I donate to charities, pray every night, volunteer and local animal shelters, work as a foster owner, and volunteer at the zoo- all at the age of fourteen. So be it. No, I’m not trying to commit vanity or anything; I’m not saying I’m perfect, but I’m saying something like being “pro-marriage” (is that the term?), but I’m trying to make a point- I do just as many good things as I do bad.
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No worries. I’ll save you a seat in the handbasket.
What I take comfort in is that, in theory, one of the two groups is right.

If they’re going to heaven, we’re going to hell, and vice versa. Either way, I look forward to being surrounded by those who have a morality of action instead of a morality of condemnation.
 
If I was trolling the last thing I would do is quote the words of Jesus, I suggest you put down the CCC and pick up your Bible. The CCC will only confuse you and lead you way from the truth of the Bible.
 
Tigress said:
Posts like that help me find clarity when it comes to religion, so really, thank you 🙂 That’s why I joined these forums and so far the answers haven’t been pretty.
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Maybe these words might help you to give clarity to your beliefs as a Catholic.You cannot diferenciate what The Church believes and teaches ;and to what Jesus means for you to believe–they are One .Jesus said to His apostles on leaving the world "Go out to all the world and preach The Gospel,He/She who believes and is **baptised ** will be saved,who does not believe will be condemned"

Now The Nicean Creed is a compendium of all you need to believe;The Church condemns those that openly embrace a homosexual culture and lifestlye.You just cannot say “well on this subject I will differ with the Church” and still claim to be a catholic believer.You are either for Christ or anti-christ,the choice is there for me and for you.

I do acknowledge that as sinners , one of the effects of sin is a certain cloudiness and lack of clarity in our thoughts,words and deeds.So I not not judge or condemn any person but that will not stop me from knowing and following The Catholic Church founded by Christ, on the rock of St.Peter,nor of proclaiming what is truth and refuting erroneous ideas.

Nicene Creed

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through Him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
He came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
He was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
He suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day He rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and His kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son
He is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
**We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.**We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
 
TheCCC explains the bible. That is what our Church gave us for instruction. Who are you to say don’t read it, it’s wrong?. You one person? Homosexual acts are the sin, not the inclination, temptation. Some things are to difficult to learn on our own, that is why Jesus in the Bible said to follow his church. On faith and morals the Church teaches the truth. If you just read the Bible without instruction from the Church, then you are a protestant.
You should leave this’ site if your pushing anything else. This is not the Catholic teachings.

Did you even bother to read what I sent about Courage? They don’t identify themselves as homosexual or gay. Men who are chaste with SSA problems. What is the matter with you? If you say your gay then you identify with your sexual preference. That is not who they are it is what they are doing.
kelcca said:
Once again your are not arguing with me but with the words of God and the writings of the saints and Church Fathers, who have said over and over again homosexuality is evil and a sin, just to identify yourself as a homosexually is sinful and a false identity because that is not how God made you or see’s you. Who care’s what the CCC say’s , I take my morals from the Bible and the saints. These Courage conferences and groups are leading gay’s astray and lying to them. The best thing that happened to me was some one being honest with me and telling me that being gay and identifying myself as a gay/bi man was sinful.
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speakttruth said:
Jesus warns us from the very beginning to follow his Father, when he talked about marriage, he only spoke of it between a man and a women to come together as one flesh, like the Father has said in Genesis. Look in the scriptures about Marriage. Even Peter said it, St Paul talk about it. Why wouldn’t Jesus say, because there was homosexuality back then, that by the way, homosexuals who love one another can get married too? He said if you have lust in your heart it would be better for you to marry and he said that about a women to a man and vice versa. otherwise stay single, no other choices that he gave. There are plenty of scriptures that hold on to a marriage only between a man and women. It’s not true that no where does it talk about marriage. Just those two statements from Jesus alone was proof what God wanted for us. Besides the biological fact of our very bodies. Anyway, sorry to ramble, I hope you understand, I want heaven for you too.
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From a civil perspective marriage has become more than just a man and a woman united in a holy sacrament and it is from this expanded definition (insurance, inheritance, rights of survivorship, etc.) that homosexuals feel that they have a right to marry. Most of them could care less about the religious meaning.
 
kelcca said:
See according to kelcca, looking at a woman with lust is the same as sleeping with her, so looking at a man with lust is the same as sleeping with him.

There is so much wrong with this level of logic, the only way he could possibly support it is that he doesn’t think about it logically. You cannot help this man. Kelcca will believe whatever he wants to believe. It’s best to just ignore him.

Your problem is not with me it is with Jesus and the writings of the Church Fathers and the Saints.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away! It is better to lose one of your members than to have your whole body thrown into hell. 30 If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away! It is better to lose one of your members than to have your whole body go into hell (Matthew 5:27-30).

There it is straight from the mouth of God, how you can even argue with the word of God is beyond me. To look is a sin, to have thoughts is a sin/ WHY? Because we are in a constant stat of sin. The ignorance of Catholics about the Bible and the teachings of Jesus never seems to stop amazing me.
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Out of curiosity are you a convert? You seem to place more importance on the Protestant concept of literal “sola scriptura” than in what the church teaches. How do you pick and choose what to believe and enforce by interpreting the Bible and the church fathers without guidance from the church?
 
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