Two LOTH questions

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Brethren,

Two unrelated questions, from someone who just received his first 4-volume Liturgy of the Hours and began praying it this week:
  1. Feb. 10 began the 5th Week in Ordinary Time this year, and it was the last before Lent. May 19 begins the 7th Week in Ordinary Time this year, and it will be the first after Easter. I know Lent & Easter displace Ordinary Sundays, but what exactly happened to the 6th Week in Ordinary Time? Why is it not taken up again after Pentecost?
  2. On May 18, one may pray the 7th Saturday in Easter or the “Optional Memorial” of martyr Pope St. John I. May 25 appears to have five different possible configurations, including Venerable Bede. How do we decide whether to celebrate This or That feast?
Thank you. Christ is Risen, alleluia, and the Holy Spirit has almost come… ! 😃
 
Classicist said:
Brethren,

Two unrelated questions, from someone who just received his first 4-volume Liturgy of the Hours and began praying it this week:
  1. Feb. 10 began the 5th Week in Ordinary Time this year, and it was the last before Lent. May 19 begins the 7th Week in Ordinary Time this year, and it will be the first after Easter. I know Lent & Easter displace Ordinary Sundays, but what exactly happened to the 6th Week in Ordinary Time? Why is it not taken up again after Pentecost?
  2. On May 18, one may pray the 7th Saturday in Easter or the “Optional Memorial” of martyr Pope St. John I. May 25 appears to have five different possible configurations, including Venerable Bede. How do we decide whether to celebrate This or That feast?
Thank you. Christ is Risen, alleluia, and the Holy Spirit has almost come… ! 😃
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#2 – if they are optional memorials, the choice is up to you. If it’s a saint that has particular relevance to your parish or diocese, it would be appropriate to choose that one. Other than that, you can do as you will. For example, being of Irish ancestry, I’ll always choose an Irish saint when one is available. 🙂
 
agnes_therese said:
#2 – if they are optional memorials, the choice is up to you. If it’s a saint that has particular relevance to your parish or diocese, it would be appropriate to choose that one. Other than that, you can do as you will. For example, being of Irish ancestry, I’ll always choose an Irish saint when one is available. 🙂
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Thank you! 🙂

I love the fact that the Church gives us such freedom in our spiritual life of devotion, via these choices in the Hours. Being a close friend and brother to the local Franciscans here, I’m obviously going to take every Franciscan memorial seriously - from Bonaventure down to Elizabeth of Portugal! 🙂
 
It’s already been a whole hour since this thread came up. Where’s Ora Labora ;)🙂

In the Catholic Church, Ordinary Time begins on the day following the Feast of the Baptism of the Lord. The Church normally celebrates this feast on the Sunday after Solemnity of the Epiphany of the Lord (6 January). Some dioceses, including those in the United States of America, however, always celebrate Epiphany on the Sunday after Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God (1 January); when they celebrate Solemnity of the Epiphany of the Lord on Sunday 7 or 8 January, they move the Feast of the Baptism of the Lord to Monday 8 or 9 January, respectively. Therefore, Ordinary Time starts on Tuesday 9 or 10 January in those years and dioceses. The Christmas season includes the Feast of the Baptism of the Lord, so Ordinary Time begins the next day (Monday or Tuesday, not on Sunday); however, the Sunday after the Feast of the Baptism of the Lord always counts as the “Second Sunday of Ordinary Time.”

Ordinary Time continues through the day before Ash Wednesday, which falls between 4 February and 10 March (inclusive) and marks the beginning of the Season of Lent. Thus for Roman Catholics, the period of Ordinary Time between Christmas and Lent may end amid the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, or ninth week of Ordinary Times. Ash Wednesday is a moveable feast, which occurs on the fortieth day (excluding Sundays) before the Solemnity of the Resurrection of the Lord (Easter Sunday).

Ordinary Time resumes on the Monday following Solemnity of Pentecost, the Sunday between 10 May and 13 June that marks the fiftieth day of Easter. Ordinary Time concludes with the Saturday afternoon before the first Sunday of Advent (27 November to 3 December). Ordinary Time thus always includes the entire months of July, August, September and October and most or all of June and November; in some years, Ordinary Time includes a portion of May, a day or two in early December, or both. The Catholic Church substitutes the Solemnity of Our Lord Jesus Christ the King of the Universe in the place of the 34th Sunday in Ordinary Time, the last Sunday of the season.

The actual number of complete or partial weeks of Ordinary Time in any given year can total 33 or 34. In most years, Ordinary Time comprises only 33 weeks,[1][2] so the Church omits one week that otherwise would precede the resumption of Ordinary Time following Pentecost Sunday. For example, in 2011, the Sunday before Ash Wednesday was the 9th Sunday in Ordinary Time, but the day after Pentecost Sunday began the 11th Week in Ordinary Time.
 
Classicist said:
Brethren,

Two unrelated questions, from someone who just received his first 4-volume Liturgy of the Hours and began praying it this week:
  1. Feb. 10 began the 5th Week in Ordinary Time this year, and it was the last before Lent. May 19 begins the 7th Week in Ordinary Time this year, and it will be the first after Easter. I know Lent & Easter displace Ordinary Sundays, but what exactly happened to the 6th Week in Ordinary Time? Why is it not taken up again after Pentecost?
  2. On May 18, one may pray the 7th Saturday in Easter or the “Optional Memorial” of martyr Pope St. John I. May 25 appears to have five different possible configurations, including Venerable Bede. How do we decide whether to celebrate This or That feast?
Thank you. Christ is Risen, alleluia, and the Holy Spirit has almost come… ! 😃
Click to expand...
On item #1. Ordinary Time before Lent is counted from the Baptism of the Lord, the week after that always the first week in Ordinary Time. However, after Pentecost, the rule is that the week before the first week of Advent is always the 34th in Ordinary Time. This gets counted backwards all the way to the week right after Pentecost. This often results in a week in Ordinary Time omitted.

On #2. You can select any one of the saints or none at all and simply pray the office of the day.
 
Thank you both - especially Windmill for that huge explanation of Ordinary Time! 🙂

As to omitting certain saints: clearly, a Memorial is not obligatory. What of a feast?

On the Feast of St. Matthias the Apostle, for example, was it obligatory to pray the Common of Apostles and Propers for St. Matthias, or could Clergy/Religious have prayed the office of the 7th Tuesday in Easter instead? Obviously a Solemnity overtakes the office of the day, but some Feasts are bigger than others. I guess I’m just trying to understand where obligation begins and piety or devotion end. 🙂
 
A year consists of 52 complete weeks plus one day [two in leap years] Thus some years have 52 Sundays and some have 53. Thus the calendar contains 53 Sundays and some years only have 52 Sundays; so one must be omitted. Omitting the one between Ash Wednesday and Pentecost causes minimal disruption in the flow.

While some Sundays may be superseded by Solemnities, e.g. Pentecost, the following week retains its numerical designation.
 
Classicist said:
  1. Feb. 10 began the 5th Week in Ordinary Time this year, and it was the last before Lent. May 19 begins the 7th Week in Ordinary Time this year, and it will be the first after Easter. I know Lent & Easter displace Ordinary Sundays, but what exactly happened to the 6th Week in Ordinary Time? Why is it not taken up again after Pentecost?
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I think I asked this question a couple of years ago or something actually. (Yes, I did)

As someone point out, there are not actually enough Sundays most years to have the full 34 weeks of Ordinary Time (I think it’s only when Christmas/New Years falls on a Sunday when there is enough actually), so 1 week of Ordinary Time is dropped.

The reason we drop one now is because the last couple weeks before Advent leading up to Christ the King are important readings in the Mass. So rather than omit them, 1 week is omitted now.

The explanation is found in [GILOTH](http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdwgilh.htm#Ch III-VI) 152:
…
In years with only thirty-three weeks in Ordinary Time, the week immediately following Pentecost is dropped, in order to retain the readings of the last weeks which are eschatological readings.
…
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Classicist said:
Thank you both - especially Windmill for that huge explanation of Ordinary Time! 🙂

As to omitting certain saints: clearly, a Memorial is not obligatory. What of a feast?

On the Feast of St. Matthias the Apostle, for example, was it obligatory to pray the Common of Apostles and Propers for St. Matthias, or could Clergy/Religious have prayed the office of the 7th Tuesday in Easter instead? Obviously a Solemnity overtakes the office of the day, but some Feasts are bigger than others. I guess I’m just trying to understand where obligation begins and piety or devotion end. 🙂
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Memorials come in two flavours: obligatory and optional. If a memorial is obligatory, you must observe it. If it’s optional, you may observe it.

In the four-volume edition, obligatory memoials will actually have “Memorial” printed in red below the saint’s name in the Proper of Saints. Optional memorials will have no such word printed.

You don’t omit Obligatory memorials, Feasts or Solemnities. For your St. Matthias example, everyone would pray it. And given that it was a Feast, everything would have been Proper, with anything missing taken from the Common.
 
Obligatory Memorials and feasts are omitted only if they are superseded by a day of higher rank. If a Solemnity is superseded by a Solemnity of higher rank it must be transferred to the next available day, or occasionally to the next available preceding day. [E.g . The Annunciation was superseded by Holy Week and the first week of Easter; so tranferred to Monday of the second week of Easter this year.]

As I recall all Obligatory Memorials are of equal rank. However, Feasts and Solemnities have an order of precedence; some supercede others.
 
As to what to celebrate on a day. (question 2). I believe there may be a listing in Vol 1. This list is from the General Norms of the Liturgical Year.

Table of Liturgical Days

First Rank
  1. Easter triduum of the Lord’s passion and resurrection.
  2. Christmas, Epiphany, Ascension, and Pentecost. Sundays of Advent, Lent, and the Easter season. Ash Wednesday. Weekdays of Holy Week from Monday to Thursday inclusive. Days within the octave of Easter.
  3. Solemnities of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and saints listed in the General Calendar. All Souls.
  4. Proper Solemnities, namely:
a. Solemnity of the principal patron of the place, that is, the city or state.

b. Solemnity of the dedication of a particular church and the anniversary.

c. Solemnity of the title, or of the founder, or of the principal patron of a religious order or congregation.

Second Rank.
  1. Feasts of the Lord in the General Calendar.
  2. Sundays of the Christmas season and Sundays in Ordinary Time.
  3. Feasts of the Blessed Virgin Mary and of the saints in the General Calendar.
  4. Proper feasts, namely:
  • Feast of the principal patron of the diocese.
  • Feast of the anniversary of the dedication of the cathedral.
  • Feast of the principal patron of a region or province, or a country, or of a wider territory.
  • Feast of the title, founder, or principle patron of an order or congregation and of a religious province, without prejudice to the directives in no. 4.
  • Other feasts proper to an individual church.
  • Other feasts listed in the calendar of a diocese or of a religious order or congregation.
  1. Weekdays of Advent from 17 December to 24 December inclusive. Days within the octave of Christmas. Weekdays of Lent.
3rd Rank.
  1. Obligatory memorials in the General Calendar.
  2. Proper obligatory memorials, namely:
  • Memorial of a secondary patron of the place, diocese, region, or province, country or wider territory, or of an order or congregation and of a religious province.
  • Obligatory memorials listed in the calendar of a diocese, or of an order or congregation.
  1. Optional memorials; but these may be celebrated even on the days listed in no. 9, in the special manner described by the General Instruction of the Roman Missal and of the Liturgy of the Hours. In the same manner obligatory memorials may be celebrated as optional memorials if they happen to fall on the Lenten weekdays.
  2. Weekdays of Advent up to 16 December inclusive. Weekdays of the Christmas season from 2 January until the Saturday after Epiphany. Weekdays of the Easter season from Monday after the octave of Easter until the Saturday before Pentecost inclusive. Weekdays in Ordinary Time.
 
Evan said:
As to what to celebrate on a day. (question 2). I believe there may be a listing in Vol 1. This list is from the General Norms of the Liturgical Year.

Table of Liturgical Days

First Rank
  1. Easter triduum of the Lord’s passion and resurrection.
  2. Christmas, Epiphany, Ascension, and Pentecost. Sundays of Advent, Lent, and the Easter season. Ash Wednesday. Weekdays of Holy Week from Monday to Thursday inclusive. Days within the octave of Easter.
  3. Solemnities of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and saints listed in the General Calendar. All Souls.
  4. Proper Solemnities, namely:
a. Solemnity of the principal patron of the place, that is, the city or state.

b. Solemnity of the dedication of a particular church and the anniversary.

c. Solemnity of the title, or of the founder, or of the principal patron of a religious order or congregation.

Second Rank.
  1. Feasts of the Lord in the General Calendar.
  2. Sundays of the Christmas season and Sundays in Ordinary Time.
  3. Feasts of the Blessed Virgin Mary and of the saints in the General Calendar.
  4. Proper feasts, namely:
  • Feast of the principal patron of the diocese.
  • Feast of the anniversary of the dedication of the cathedral.
  • Feast of the principal patron of a region or province, or a country, or of a wider territory.
  • Feast of the title, founder, or principle patron of an order or congregation and of a religious province, without prejudice to the directives in no. 4.
  • Other feasts proper to an individual church.
  • Other feasts listed in the calendar of a diocese or of a religious order or congregation.
  1. Weekdays of Advent from 17 December to 24 December inclusive. Days within the octave of Christmas. Weekdays of Lent.
3rd Rank.
  1. Obligatory memorials in the General Calendar.
  2. Proper obligatory memorials, namely:
  • Memorial of a secondary patron of the place, diocese, region, or province, country or wider territory, or of an order or congregation and of a religious province.
  • Obligatory memorials listed in the calendar of a diocese, or of an order or congregation.
  1. Optional memorials; but these may be celebrated even on the days listed in no. 9, in the special manner described by the General Instruction of the Roman Missal and of the Liturgy of the Hours. In the same manner obligatory memorials may be celebrated as optional memorials if they happen to fall on the Lenten weekdays.
  2. Weekdays of Advent up to 16 December inclusive. Weekdays of the Christmas season from 2 January until the Saturday after Epiphany. Weekdays of the Easter season from Monday after the octave of Easter until the Saturday before Pentecost inclusive. Weekdays in Ordinary Time.
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This is always good stuff, but one’s best bet is always an Ordo for the year.
 
Sorry, I should have simply read the GILOTH before asking obvious questions… 😊

You’ve all been very patient and helpful regardless. 👍
 
Very educational thread all around. Thanks for posing the question!
 
porthos11 said:
This is always good stuff, but one’s best bet is always an Ordo for the year.
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I like the list in addition to the Ordo because it does not show the special feasts for the Diocese or the Parish.

So in our diocese the dedication of the cathedral is on (Number 8) is on December 22
The patron of the diocese (St James, again Number 8) is on July 25
The solemnity of the dedication of our parish church (Number 4b) is on Aug 29
 
Windmill said:
It’s already been a whole hour since this thread came up. Where’s Ora Labora ;)🙂
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On a cycling holiday in Maine 😃

Glad to see you guys answered it all so I could enjoy my vacation.

In reality all this for me is easy. One of the monks sends me the abbey’s ordo when it comes out every 2 months, and I follow it. Being a Benedictine Oblate I follow the Benedictine calendar, even though I use the 4-week Roman LOTH these days (I can usually fish out the propers and commons for the Benedictine saints from my monastic breviary).
 
Evan said:
I like the list in addition to the Ordo because it does not show the special feasts for the Diocese or the Parish.

So in our diocese the dedication of the cathedral is on (Number 8) is on December 22
The patron of the diocese (St James, again Number 8) is on July 25
The solemnity of the dedication of our parish church (Number 4b) is on Aug 29
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Good point. A typical diocesan Ordo will account for local (i.e. country-specific or even area-specific) celebrations and their respective ranks. They also typically include the anniversary of the dedication of the Cathedral in each diocese in the country. The only thing missing would be the anniversary of the dedication of your parish church, which one will have to find out locally.
 
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