Two questions about Christ's divinity and the Trinity

[James924]

Two questions:

1. How do you debate with a Messianic Jew who does not believe Jesus is God? What are some arguments to make?
2. Once that is established, how do you debate with a messianic Jew who DOES believe Jesus is God, but does not believe in the Trinity? What are some arguments to make?

-Thanks

Also, if you have time, please look at my other two questions on this matter:

Who’s Name is Yaweh?
How do I answer this?

 

[BerhaneSelassie]

Oneness? Jesus said He was not the Holy Spirit.

“And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always,”–John 14:16

 

[BerhaneSelassie]

There an angel of the LORD appeared to him in fire flaming out of a bush. As he looked on, he was surprised to see that the bush, though on fire, was not consumed.

Some believe the being in the Burning Bush was God, or the Angel of the Lord, which they believe is God, however following Acts 7:35

God sent as (both) ruler and deliverer, through the angel who appeared to him in the bush.

It would seem the angel served as a sort of intermediary by which God spoke

 

[atman]

Two questions:

1. How do you debate with a Messianic Jew who does not believe Jesus is God? What are some arguments to make?

Simple: How could Christ forgive sins without being the party chiefly offended? Why didn’t Christ rebuke Thomas for calling Him “my Lord and my God”? Why did Christ say that He perceived power flow from Him when the woman touched His garb, whereas the other prophets relied on God to go forth and do His Will when they performed miracles? Why did Christ “before Abraham was, I Am”? If the Messianic Jew in question replies he was created before Abraham, then why the “am” and not a “was”?

1. Once that is established, how do you debate with a messianic Jew who DOES believe Jesus is God, but does not believe in the Trinity? What are some arguments to make?

Well, there are two possible ways of explaining the Dual Nature without resorting to Trinitarianism, as far as I can see.

a.) Jesus was the Essence of God Incarnate rather than an individual Person. While this could have been done, Jesus makes such a belief absurd. He constantly prays (meaning His whole Person, not just His human nature, since a nature does not pray) to God, which would make no sense if He Himself were the whole Essence of God, since He would then be asking Himself to do something, or thanking Himself.

b.) Jesus could be “part” of God Incarnate, but this is impossible. “Part” implies composition of parts, yet that would mean God is not the First Cause, for the parts of God would then be the cause of the complex substance of God. God, therefore, could not be “partially” Incarnate.

All we have left is the trusty old Trinity.

 

[John92]

If memory serves St. Thomas Aquinas’ “Summa Theologica” addresses the question of how God’s unity and simplicity are consonant with the dogma of the Trinity; you can find it online in translation. There are also hundreds of websites which go through the scriptural defense of the Trinity.

You might want to steer the conversation to the Catholic Church - that it’s true because it was defined as true by an ecumenical council, and why the ecumenical councils are infallible according to the Gospel, etc. etc.