Two questions about Mary

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I’m a former Baptist, now a strong Catholic (“strong” in the sense of my belief in the teaching of the Magisterium, apostolic succession, etc.–not in the sense of my personal actions, etc.).

I have prayed the Rosary on and off for the past several years. “On” might be daily for a year. I’m currently praying it daily now.

Still, my Baptist “baggage” tugs at me, even after reading St. Louis de Montfort’s book–though I have probably forgotten much of it.

My questions are:
  1. Mary as mother of God.
    I understand that Jesus said “I and the Father are one,” but he also said “I must go so the Paraclete may come.” So, while generally speaking, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the 3 Persons of the one God, it still seems like Mary gave birth to only one Person of the Trinity–not all 3. Therefore, I’m struggling with the idea of Mary being the mother of God, as if to say she is the mother of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
  2. Mary is crowned Queen of Heaven
    Where does this doctrine (if indeed it is a doctrine of the Church) come from? How does any human know what happened to Mary after she went to Heaven? Was it revealed to someone via a personal revelation that the Church sanctioned?
 
Just a quick, first impressions answer from my perspective as a Catholic…
Larry1700 said:
  1. Mary as mother of God.
    I understand that Jesus said “I and the Father are one,” but he also said “I must go so the Paraclete may come.” So, while generally speaking, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the 3 Persons of the one God, it still seems like Mary gave birth to only one Person of the Trinity–not all 3. Therefore, I’m struggling with the idea of Mary being the mother of God, as if to say she is the mother of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
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Wherever there is one Person of the Trinity, so too there are the other two Persons. That’s why we can talk about either the indwelling of the Holy Spirit or the indwelling of the Trinity.

“I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)

“If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” ( John 10:37-38)

“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.” ( John 14:10)

Of course, Mary did not exist before God or anything like that. But by virtue of her being the mother of Jesus, and Jesus being one with the Father (and indeed the Holy Spirit), one too can say that she is the Mother of God, as an affirmation of the truth of the Trinity.

Indeed, this pretty title of the Blessed Virgin is there to support the central dogmas of Christian revelation. By using the title, “Mother of God” for Mary, the mother of Jesus, the Christian implicitly affirms that he believes in the Trinity. It’s a beautiful thing because it cements the truth of Christianity in the mind of the believer. One cannot speak of the Mother of God without expressing the central doctrine of Christianity. It’s actually quite amazing that the flowery language of Catholicism can be steeped so deeply in theological significance and truth.
  1. Mary is crowned Queen of Heaven
    Where does this doctrine (if indeed it is a doctrine of the Church) come from? How does any human know what happened to Mary after she went to Heaven? Was it revealed to someone via a personal revelation that the Church sanctioned?
Click to expand...
I’ve heard that in Jewish culture, it was the mother of the king and not his spouse that was considered to be the queen.

I’m not too good with the Old Testament, but I do believe there are scriptural quotes to support this.

And on that understanding alone, Mary is the Queen of Heaven by virtue of her Son being the King of Heaven.

However, there’s more:

Revelations 12:1-2
A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.
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Here we see the woman, whom we identify as Mary, with a crown of twelve stars. That fits in with the idea of the mother of the king being the queen, and Mary is no exception.
 
Larry1700 said:
I’m a former Baptist, now a strong Catholic (“strong” in the sense of my belief in the teaching of the Magisterium, apostolic succession, etc.–not in the sense of my personal actions, etc.).

I have prayed the Rosary on and off for the past several years. “On” might be daily for a year. I’m currently praying it daily now.

Still, my Baptist “baggage” tugs at me, even after reading St. Louis de Montfort’s book–though I have probably forgotten much of it.

My questions are:
  1. Mary as mother of God.
    I understand that Jesus said “I and the Father are one,” but he also said “I must go so the Paraclete may come.” So, while generally speaking, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the 3 Persons of the one God, it still seems like Mary gave birth to only one Person of the Trinity–not all 3. Therefore, I’m struggling with the idea of Mary being the mother of God, as if to say she is the mother of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
  2. Mary is crowned Queen of Heaven
    Where does this doctrine (if indeed it is a doctrine of the Church) come from? How does any human know what happened to Mary after she went to Heaven? Was it revealed to someone via a personal revelation that the Church sanctioned?
Click to expand...
its common for anyone who are converts to feel doubts like this. pray so that you may be enlightened about this matter. NO WORDS CAN ENLIGHTEN YOU. ONLY HIS WORDS CAN DO SO. PRAY. IT WILL EDUCATE YOU.
 
"I must go so the Paraclete may come."

The word Paraclete has many meanings, I had to do a little research. Please bear with me. 🙂

A definition from Wikipedia…

‘Paraclete’ appears in the New Testament in the Gospel of John (14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7) where it may be translated in English as** “counselor”, “helper”, encourager, advocate, or “comforter”**.
The early church identified the Paraclete as the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:5,1:8,2:4,2:38) and Christians continue to use Paraclete as a title for the Spirit of God.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraclete

The Holy Spirit is in Jesus and is him, but Jesus was also a temporary flesh and messiah, sent to earth to fufill a purpose. He was not meant to be on earth with us eternally.

If you take John 14:16, the quote you sited, to www.biblegateway.com, you select that passage from all versions of The New Testament to see how it’s been translated.
For example:

Common English Bible (CEB)
John 14:16-17
16 I will ask the Father, and he will send another Companion,[a] who will be with you forever. 17 This Companion is the Spirit of Truth, whom the world can’t receive because it neither sees him nor recognizes him. You know him, because he lives with you and will be with you.

King James Version (KJV)
John 14:16-17
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Good News Translation (GNT)
John 14:16-17
16 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, who will stay with you forever.17 He is the Spirit, who reveals the truth about God. The world cannot receive him, because it cannot see him or know him. But you know him, because he remains with you and is[a] in you.

New Living Translation (NLT)
John 14:16-17
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate,[a] who will never leave you. 17 He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive him, because it isn’t looking for him and doesn’t recognize him. But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you.

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
John 14:16-17
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you for ever—
17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

In the quote “I must go so the Paraclete may come.”, Jesus is not saying ‘I can’t be here while the Holy Spirit is here, I gotta split so it can show up’. He is saying… I must die and leave the earth, but you will not be alone. The Holy Spirit, (and thus Jesus), will be here for you, surrounding you and filling you, though not in the kind of flesh you can see and touch like I am.

It is not that one had to leave in order for the other to be able to arrive. It was that Jesus had to die, be ressurected, and ascend to Heaven - that was his lot.
But he would also be with us forever, as the Holy Spirit.
 
“it still seems like Mary gave birth to only one Person of the Trinity”

You are right. Mary did give birth to only one person - because only one of the Trinity was made into flesh. Jesus. God never has been and neither has the Spirit…

Jesus is all three in one;
  • He is God, because he is divine. He had the powers of God and the words directly from God. He did things only God could do. He could explain God to us, because He was God.
  • He was also the spirit. His movements, words, actions, and very existance has made an imprint on souls throughout the ages. Not through slavery or war or kingdoms like humans, but through the spirit, which moved the disciples, and moved the people.
  • And He is of course Himself, Jesus of Nazareth, poor carpenter, studied at the temple, felt pain, sadness and confusion. Entirely human, he breathed air, grew, ate food, worked, spoke, slept, occassionally got pissed off, and needed sandals.
Mary did not create God. As a human woman creates into existence a regular child. She made herself available to be used by God. She carried Him, give birth to Him, and cared for Him as His mother for His entire life.

That’s why she is the mother of God.
 
Larry1700 said:
I’m a former Baptist, now a strong Catholic (“strong” in the sense of my belief in the teaching of the Magisterium, apostolic succession, etc.–not in the sense of my personal actions, etc.).

I have prayed the Rosary on and off for the past several years. “On” might be daily for a year. I’m currently praying it daily now.

Still, my Baptist “baggage” tugs at me, even after reading St. Louis de Montfort’s book–though I have probably forgotten much of it.

My questions are:
  1. Mary as mother of God.
    I understand that Jesus said “I and the Father are one,” but he also said “I must go so the Paraclete may come.” So, while generally speaking, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the 3 Persons of the one God, it still seems like Mary gave birth to only one Person of the Trinity–not all 3. Therefore, I’m struggling with the idea of Mary being the mother of God, as if to say she is the mother of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
  2. Mary is crowned Queen of Heaven
    Where does this doctrine (if indeed it is a doctrine of the Church) come from? How does any human know what happened to Mary after she went to Heaven? Was it revealed to someone via a personal revelation that the Church sanctioned?
Click to expand...
Elizabeth calls Mary ‘the mother of My Lord’ when Mary goes to visit her just after being told she will be the mother of Jesus. When a Jewish person said, ‘My Lord’, they were talking about God.

That Mary is the Mother of God is a declaration about Jesus, not about Mary. In was in answer to some heresies about just Who Jesus is.

The First Marian Dogma
Mary, Mother of God
Historically, there have been three errors concerning Mary’s divine maternity. First, some have held that Christ was true God, but not true man. Therefore, since Christ did not receive a human nature from Mary, she could not be called His mother.
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The second error, much more prevalent today, is that Christ is truly a man, but not God. Therefore, Mary is truly the mother of Christ, but in no sense the mother of God.
Click to expand...
The third error, called Nestorianism, is what occasioned the Church’s definition at the Council of Ephesus.
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According to this view, there were two persons in Christ, one divine and one human, and Mary gave birth only to the human person. She could rightly be called the Mother of Christ (Christotokos) or even the Receiver of God
(Theodokos), but not the Mother of God (Theotokos).
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In the ancient Kingdom of David, the mother of the king became the Queen. This is because the king had many wives, but only one mother. The Queen Mother was a position of power in ruling the country, issuing royal decrees in her own name, petitioning the King, and facilitating access to the King.

Undoubtedly, Jesus is the King of Heaven. That makes Mary, his mother, the Queen.

RULERS OF JUDAH AND THEIR QUEEN MOTHERS (Gebirah)
[The Blessed Virgin Mary:

QUEEN MOTHER OF THE NEW DAVIDIC KINGDOM](http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/Mary The Queen Mother of the New Davidic Kingdom.htm)

[AD CAELI REGINAM

ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII
ON PROCLAIMING THE QUEENSHIP OF MARY](http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/p...f_p-xii_enc_11101954_ad-caeli-reginam_en.html)
 
Hello! I would say this; if you really are open to accepting these things, but honestly are having difficulty, tell Jesus and His Mother. I can’t tell you enough of how they have helped me with the same problem. Explain it in detal and be honest with them.

Remember this also, all grace comes by the merits of Christ who is God. Christ came through Mary, but Mary was created by God. Concerning the title of Mother of God in relation to God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, it might be helpful to view it in the context of the specific actions of each in relation to Mary as Mother. God the Father willed it according to His plan of salvation that God the Son be born of Mary. In this sense, the title Mother of God can be viewed as Mother of the Father’s choosing. Jeremiah was chosen as a Propet of God, someone chosen to perform a specific function according to the will of the Father. It was by the power of the Holy Spirit that Christ was conveived in Mary’s womb. In this sense, the word “Mother” is similar to “instrument,” but in the sense that we who let God act through us as His servants become His instruments.

It’s easier to see Mary as Mother of God when we consider the birth of Jesus. I hope this helps. If I said anything out of place with the Church’s teaching, someone please tell me. I’d greatly appreciate it.
 
There are three persons in God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
But only one nature, God.
Since there is but one God, where one Person is, there also are the other two.
But each person in the Trinity is distinct, but not seperate. If seperate, then 3 gods.
However since distinct, Mary gave birth to the second person, but still where one person is there also are the other two.
However having said that, it was the Father’s will that Mary be the mother to his only divine Son, and it was the divine Son that Mary gave birth to, and it was the Holy Spirit who was her spouse.

Now I know that this may be a bit confusing, but that is because we are talking about the Blessed Trinity which is a mystery of our faith.

The problem with many christians, catholics included, is that Mary seems to be elevated too highly, or equal to her son in stature. From what I have seen on CAF, this seems to be a common problem. It is almost like it is too much to say that Mary is the mother of God for this very fear, or sort of scary. But it’s not.

We do not say that Mary is the Mother of God from all eternity into existence, but rather that Mary is the Mother of God into this world in time. It was the decision of God to choose Mary to bring Him into this world thru her so that he could be one with us and share our nature. This He did thru Mary,to share our nature, so He could make the supreme sacrifice of himself in our stead as a man to suffer as man for Man’s sins. He chose Mary as the vehicle to carry this out and to be one of us, except for sin. As Paul said that He is like to us in all things except sin. But Mary of course is not divine as her Son. But on the other hand, she is high in stature because of the vocation God had chosen her for, namely the birth of Jesus.

Just a thought.
 
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