Two Questions:One on Today's Reading + One Other

[William777]

Greetings Brethren:

I have a few questions on today’s scripture reading, which I thought I would share…

First, here’s the link:

usccb.org/bible/readings/092212.cfm

Now my thoughts…

What you sow is not brought to life unless it dies.

This comment of Paul’s seems to recall Christ’s teaching:

(Joh 12:24-25) Amen, amen, I say to you,
unless the grain of wheat falling into the ground die,
Itself remaineth alone. But if it die it bringeth forth much fruit.
He that loveth his life shall lose it
and he that hateth his life in this world keepeth it unto life eternal.

My question is - and this may sound a bit weird - but we how does one die like this?

I mean, what’s being described is life after death, but there’s also allusions to reaping a bountiful harvest. I’m trying to figure out how to reap a bountiful harvest, but the passage seems to indicate I have to die to get to it. So - how do I “die” like that?

Please note - I’d like to point our Christ’s words (in the analogy) I dont think are to be taken literally by everyone. While I realize he is talking about his own death and resurrection, there’s a bit of a problem…

The seed doesnt really “die” when it falls from the plant. It gets separated from it, and then it goes on to change (i.e. it gets converted), but then it goes on to spawn new life. This seems to be what Saint Paul means when he talks about the corruptible and the incorruptible. The rhind of the seed gets shed - it is the corruptible “dead” part, but the life of the seed is the incorruptible living part that adopts a new form.

I am trying to look at this on a personal and practical level. I dont think we are called to run out in front of a bus. But we still have to take things to the next level.

Maybe we cannot tell. Perhaps this is why Saint Paul says:

Someone may say, "How are the dead raised?
With what kind of body will they come back?"

I think we all want to be wildly successful in our lives. We’d all like to reap a great harvest, but we’re afraid to take that leap of faith that “dies”, for we dont know what will come in turn. And we cannot tell either.

Maybe I am lost in thought here. Any advice would be appreciated.

My second thought is also on Paul…

He who soweth sparingly shall also reap sparingly

How do I sow plentifully such that I will reap plentifully?

We believe we cannot give what we do not have. I personally tend to be very reclusive, shy and awkward (due to a disability with Asperger’s Syndrome), so I am not well received socially, except by forgiving crowds - and even then they are usually more tolerant of me than accepting. In my prayers, I often fancy myself of heroic virtue, but the fact is - no one really cares… LOL I am lucky if anyone responds to this post cause I talk too much…

But anyway, how one reaps a bountiful harvest clearly depends on how much one sows - but I want to make sure I am scattering seeds and not just a lot of manure…

Blessings,

wm

 

[William777]

I read on a little further - to today’s Gospel reading, and I think the answer has something to do with perseverance…

Christ says of the seeds that fell on good soil:

But as for the seed that fell on rich soil,
they are the ones who, when they have heard the word,
embrace it with a generous and good heart,
and bear fruit through perseverance."

This makes sense in some ways. When we say the rosary - the fruit of the sorrowful mystery of the crucifixion is perseverance. This agrees with pretty much all facets of the scriptures quoted.

But, still, I’ve never understood perseverance intellectually. I still dont get the how to die and reap a bountiful harvest part of it.

Hmmm…

 

[Julia_Mae]

Welcome to CAF, William.

(Joh 12:24-25) Amen, amen, I say to you,
unless the grain of wheat falling into the ground die,
Itself remaineth alone. But if it die it bringeth forth much fruit.
He that loveth his life shall lose it
and he that hateth his life in this world keepeth it unto life eternal.

My question is - and this may sound a bit weird - but we how does one die like this? …

I think we all want to be wildly successful in our lives. We’d all like to reap a great harvest, but we’re afraid to take that leap of faith that “dies”, …

A person is a grain falling to the ground, or a single person being born into the world. You’re sentence about all wanting to be wildly successful, to me represents our basic, or animal nature. All our drives for wealth and recognition and sexual desirability, all these things spring from our most base selves.

The seed that remains just a seed, is a single thing. It can give a bit of nourishment to someone, not much, and when it’s gone, it’s completely gone. We can do this, too. Live only for ourselves. It isn’t just that we may have no Heaven when we pass, but when we pass, no one here will care. We have no impact and leave nothing behind. Maybe a name on a building.

As you indicated, the seed “dies” by being transformed. It becomes far bigger than itself. It provides a home to birds, food for many, more seeds to make more homes and more food, deadwood for fires to provide warmth, planks to build houses, it’s roots stabilize the soil. A plant, unique to the seed, is a wondrous thing that leaves itself behind and flourishes even when it is gone.

The person as seed, also has to die to self: and thereby become… what? Whatever springs from the uniqueness of the person. The greater self isn’t so much different, as it is the realization of potential. Just like the seed can be an oak tree or a rosebush depending on the DNA, a person is a complex thing a of flesh and spirit and soul that can become something to much greater than self and yet, what it was always meant to be.

We die the same way the seed does: through water and light. Living water, Light of the World.

There are no insignificant people. Not one. Recall the story of Saint Terese the Little Flower. No one outside the convent and her family knew who she was. She did no great deeds. The world is packed, and has always been, with those great saints among us, the widows giving a penny, a man working three menial jobs to care for a sick child, all these people who have allowed the transforming Light and Water to make of them what God wills.

There is, since you mentioned your Asperger’s, nothing at all wrong with you. You are exactly what God wants you to be so you can become all He wants you to become.

But anyway, how one reaps a bountiful harvest clearly depends on how much one sows - but I want to make sure I am scattering seeds and not just a lot of manure…

You can’t be sure. That’s faith. What you can do is go to Daily Mass, begin a regular prayer life, pursue sanctity. Pursue becoming a Saint. God will bring about the change, God will drop you where He wishes, you be alert for the opportunities: to hold a door, listen to an old woman in line at the grocery store, smile when the clerk messes up your order, be patient when criticized or made fun of…

This is what true heroes really do.

**1877 **The vocation of humanity is to show forth the image of God and to be transformed into the image of the Father’s only Son. This vocation takes a personal form since each of us is called to enter into the divine beatitude; it also concerns the human community as a whole.

 

[fred_conty]

When a seed is planted in the ground, it is buried and in this sense it dies, but in reality it does not really die but is transformed into a living plant. So it must die first in order to live.

When a person is planted in the ground of Christ, it is buried and in this sense it dies to the world, but in reality it isn’t really dead but transformed into another living Christ. A christian becomes dead to the things of this world, and in so doing, becomes alive to the things of the world of Christ.

When Jesus said we must be in the world but not of the world, it is another way of saying that we must be dead to the things of this world and alive to the things of his world. And if we are not dead to this world, then we will not be alive in his world. So we must die first in order to live.

Just a thought.

 

[Cryptic1]

What this scripture is talking about is “dying to self”. Man is born with a sin nature because of the sin of the first Adam (from the garden of Eden). Man receives his new nature when he becomes like Jesus (the second Adam).

Because of sin man is prone to fall many times in his lifetime. The way to overcome that is to “die” to his old ways and nature and become more like Jesus in His nature.

Man is comprised of body, soul and spirit. The body is the outer shell, the soul is the will and emotions and the spirit is the part of us that God breathed His own spirit into. When we “die” to self we are no longer ruled by our emotions and will (which in turn, rule the body), rather, we are new members of the body of Christ who (within our spirits) walk right alongside Jesus and participate in His nature.

When you become this new creature in Christ, the eyes of your heart will be opened as you begin to see and operate from a place of compassion and love for all of God’s people. Dying to self requires a transformation from the inside (your spirit) which eventually transfers to the outside for all to see. Jesus operated from that place as well, doing only His Father’s bidding, and as followers of Christ, we too, once transformed, will begin to only do what the Father tells us to do.

God Rocks

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Greetings Brethren:

I have a few questions on today’s scripture reading, which I thought I would share…

Great.

I personally tend to be very reclusive, shy and awkward (due to a disability with Asperger’s Syndrome), so I am not well received socially, except by forgiving crowds - and even then they are usually more tolerant of me than accepting. In my prayers, I often fancy myself of heroic virtue, but the fact is - no one really cares… LOL I am lucky if anyone responds to this post cause I talk too much…

Even some of us who aren’t aspies talk too much!
Right here, in the text, no one can see your penetrating stare … they just see your thoughts, and you are Welcome.

First, here’s the link:

usccb.org/bible/readings/092212.cfm

Now my thoughts…

What you sow is not brought to life unless it dies.

This comment of Paul’s seems to recall Christ’s teaching:

(Joh 12:24-25) Amen, amen, I say to you,
unless the grain of wheat falling into the ground die,
Itself remaineth alone. But if it die it bringeth forth much fruit.
He that loveth his life shall lose it
and he that hateth his life in this world keepeth it unto life eternal.

My question is - and this may sound a bit weird - but we how does one die like this?

I mean, what’s being described is life after death…

Please note - I’d like to point our Christ’s words (in the analogy) I dont think are to be taken literally by everyone. While I realize he is talking about his own death and resurrection, there’s a bit of a problem…

The seed doesnt really “die” when it falls from the plant…

The notions we have today of biology were not understood at the time these sayings were written. When one plants a seed in the ground – two possibilities occur; 2) the seed rots and disappears, 1) the seed is destroyed but a plant arises where the seed once was.

In scripture, the idea of death is a change – the idea of the second death is corruption and damnation. With respect to Adam, he is told he will “die to death.”; Again in revelation, the lake of fire “is the second death.”

Even in paradise, the ancient notion of death exists; for one could eat the fruit of a tree – and convert the living flesh of the fruit (via bacteria) into other living matter. That too is “life” to “life” via death, and in general the notion of death is merely the destruction of the form.

You can get more technical here – but I would point you to the fusion of seed of man with a woman (sperma + oocyte). The seed dies by absorption in the fusion – but none the less, it is “life” to “life”; and lest you think DNA is itself alive, look in any electrophoresis machine and you will realize it isn’t.

I am trying to look at this on a personal and practical level. I dont think we are called to run out in front of a bus. But we still have to take things to the next level.

If a little girl was in front of that bus – would you run out in front of it, so as to get her out of the way?

Note: you might even survive … but in order to be the hero; you have to hate (set aside, separate your actions of self-love) of life for you might die.

My second thought is also on Paul…

He who soweth sparingly shall also reap sparingly

How do I sow plentifully such that I will reap plentifully?

In some of the parables; we are the ground in which the seed is planted – in that case, the seed is the “word” of God. In others, we are the seed that is planted. Good seed grows – bad seed rots or grows weeds which destroy the plants around them.

Having horses around, I know that Good earth is often the BEST horse manure. No joke … spread around horse manure on the Garden – and HUGE tomatoes will grow.

How do you sow plentifully? by spending the time to give whatever it is you do have. To share the word, online, at home, or even in prayer with the communion of saints. To raise children who might accept the word as they grow. To give alms to charities that raise children from poverty if you can’t raise them yourself – but have a good enough Job to share.

There are many parts of the body – and each part works its task no matter how small for the good of the whole. To him who does the little task given – God may choose to give more or another way.

But anyway, how one reaps a bountiful harvest clearly depends on how much one sows - but I want to make sure I am scattering seeds and not just a lot of manure…

wm

Manure is good stuff, if put in the right place.
Peace to you.

–Andrew.

 

[William777]

Thank you all for these wonderful replies.

For personal reasons, I don’t wish to comment any further, but all your comments really have been helpful.

Some things in our faith are just mysterious. But - if anything seems to help on this issue - it is your prayers.

Thanks and May God Bless You Abundantly!


wm

 

[satc001]

How do you sow plentifully? by spending the time to give whatever it is you do have. To share the word, online, at home, or even in prayer with the communion of saints. To raise children who might accept the word as they grow.

Reading Locksmith