Two TOUGH questions about Jesus' baptism. Any takers?

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Lepanto said:
  1. Why did Jesus need to be baptised in the first place? Since He is “like us in all things but sin,” Jesus had no original sin to be washed away by baptism. So what was the point?
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Jesus did not NEED to be Baptized. But it was fitting for him to be baptized because baptism is the path to salvation, and he was leading the way to salvation for us. Also, Baptism imprints a character on the soul, and it was fitting for his human soul to have this character, since he asks all his disciples to be baptized and receive the character.
Lepanto said:
  1. The Catholic Church only recognizes the Trinitarian baptism formula as valid (“I baptise you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit…”). There is no possible way that John the Baptist would have used the Trinitarian formula, since Trinitarian theology was still in its infancy and had yet to be developed.
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The requirement for a Trinitarian formula is, in my opinion, a matter of discipline. It may well be that in the very early Church a formula was used which was not explicitly Trinitarian.
 
I answers this question in another thread but I will repeat it here

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Why did Jesus have to be baptized if he was born without original sin?
Simple to Fulfill the law of Moses.

The Book of Hebrews states that one of Jesus’ function was that of a priest , and according to Old testament law a priest had to undergo a “bath” before they could begin service. Had Jesus not have been baptized he would have broken this law of Moses and therefore been unable to be the sinless sacrifice.
 
I recall hearing an interesting take on this scene. Jesus performs no miracles until after He receives the Holy Spirit. Then, after Baptism, Jesus is led by Holy Spirit several times.

I think this scene illustrates what happens to us when we are baptized, we are led by the Holy Spirit to do many good thins, to do the Will of the Father.

It is highly symbolic, for Jesus surely didn’t need to do that, but is is a sign of what happens to us.
 
Lepanto said:
  1. Why did Jesus need to be baptised in the first place? Since He is “like us in all things but sin,” Jesus had no original sin to be washed away by baptism. So what was the point?
  2. The Catholic Church only recognizes the Trinitarian baptism formula as valid (“I baptise you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit…”). There is no possible way that John the Baptist would have used the Trinitarian formula, since Trinitarian theology was still in its infancy and had yet to be developed.
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There is a fabulous book, called The baptism of Jesus in the Jordan (Kilian O’Donnell OSB) absolutely fabulous. Its difficult to get (amazon may have it) but if you can get it, it answers beuaitully all your questions. When it arrived at my home, I picked it and read it through in 24 hours. I have not done that in years. I love it, and love it and love and I keep going back to it. Now I am going to read it again slowly. Please try and get it it is worthwhile.
Blessing
GraceAngel
 
Jesus didn’t need a baptism, he did it at the time perhaps because not everyone knew he was Christ. If he sat there telling others to get baptized and him not receving it, people would have wondered what’s up.

But John the Baptist recognizes him. If anything, Jesus’ own baptism was symbolical.
 
Harmony1988 said:
Jesus didn’t need a baptism, he did it at the time perhaps because not everyone knew he was Christ. If he sat there telling others to get baptized and him not receving it, people would have wondered what’s up.

But John the Baptist recognizes him. If anything, Jesus’ own baptism was symbolical.
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Hello Harmoney from Australia,
please try and get the book the Baptism of Jesus in the Jordan (Kilian ODonnell) and you will see that you answer this differently
GraceAngel.
 
  1. I’ve heard that Jesus’ baptism expressed and began his mission: an utter willingness to take on the lot of sinners. He did not hold himself apart from those he saved, but endured everything they deserved. In the same way, Mary was willing to go through the ritual of purification after the birth of Jesus, even though she was totally undefiled. This was part of her cooperation with his saving work; she, too, would be pierced by a sword. It was not just a willingness to fulfill the form that everyone else did, but a willingness to take on the suffering and to pay the price exacted by the sin of others, including the humiliation of the cleansing that all others deserved. In this, Mary became the Model of Christians.
  2. As pointed out above, it was a baptism of repentance, but not the same baptism that commissions us to follow our call within the Body of Christ.
 
Sacraments are lovely,
Given by some one to some one.

does the Bible tell us to baptise baby s?

Or

Can we bring true sacriments on ourselves?

Our own actions for others are above others actions for us,

Jesus (PBWH) is narrated to have said some thing along these lines “this is my body and blood i give it up for you, now do this in memory of me”

remember the last time you did it? you put your life on the line for another just because the Father calls you to do it.
You did it with reservation but in submitance to God.
You knew from then on it would never be the same.
You did die and now have life eternal.
So don’t fear the second death.

Baptism in water shows the body and brethren you are willing to submit to God as Jesus (PBWH) did. (question 1)

This was enought for Jesus (PBWH) to be revealed but is not the one baptism for forgiveness of sin we need to make. if it were we could all rape and pillage with no regard for the law.

Your baptism in blood cleanses you of sin. Jesus (PBWH) did not need to do but did to show you what the Father has to offer… (question 2)
this is the one baptism that brings the sinner the confirmation of spirit.

Baptism in the spirit comes only from Our Father, it pre-existed blood and water. That is it pre-existed creation of matter (this gets hard to understand if you have never experienced it)

If you want to, next Mass be the lamb,
know by doing so you will become terminally ill or die there and then so others can have life eternal.

Are you willing to die for me?
Are you willing to die for me?
Are you really willing to die for me?

If you were chosen tell Our Father you are willing next time you gather at mass.
do this and you will be in, i will be who i will be.

The Father chose you and sent Jesus (PBWH) for you.

The son does not gain us for the Father.
 
Stephen, you sorta kinda lost me there, brother.

And I’ve got to ask what does “PBWH” mean?
 
NotWorthy said:
Stephen, you sorta kinda lost me there, brother.

And I’ve got to ask what does “PBWH” mean?
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Peace be with him,

sorry i lost you, i am very deep with prayer and not real educated so a poor comunicator.

May God keep and bless you and yours
 
Steven_John said:
Peace be with him,

sorry i lost you, i am very deep with prayer and not real educated so a poor comunicator.

May God keep and bless you and yours
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And you too, brother.

I knew it’s not what you meant, but the pbwh looks uncomfortably close to what we Yanks call a "raspberry sound’. IOW, the sound your mouth makes when it’s imitating the sounds of another body orifice.

I knew that’s not what you meant, but I wanted you to understand that sometimes what you are saying “down under” is not what we hear in the states. 🙂
 
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