Two Vocations Flushed Down The John--What Now?

[Nom_the_Wise]

Lest you and I (kargo27) cause further scandal, here’s a link to an article from the Chicago Tribune:

chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-060612-lagoprofile,0,7464548.story

The priest they discuss in the article was on our formation staff (I knew him and never suspected) and his conviction came after both he and I were long gone from the seminary. But Jimmy Lago is heading up as close to a “task force” as you can get in Chicago, the first layman ever to hold the office of Chancellor. His resume is impressive to say the least. I have met Mr. Lago one-on-one and he is a formidible man, and a man of God as well.

And, to be fair, not all homosexuals are pedophiles by default. There are heterosexual pedophiles as well (and women pedophiles, i.e. Mary Kay Letourneau). I attended a Vicariate meeting in Chicago once (back in '92 when I worked in youth ministry and they were giving guidelines of how to minister to youth) where they showed that all professions have a percentage of pedophiles, and that the priesthood actually has the *least *percentage (but that was '92 and I don’t have current numbers). When a pedophile becomes a priest, it’s different of course because the priest acts “in Persona Christi” to the community, and is therefore “Tonight’s Top Story…” It is a reflection on the media that only the Catholic Church ever had so much international publicity when pedophilia itself is a mental disorder which affects every profession. If every instance of pedophilia were given national publicity, news stations wouldn’t be able to broadcast any other news. So they were selective, to the detriment of the Church (and I’m slow to say satan’s hand can be seen in that, but more so the Hand of God. If anyone is going to get nailed to a cross, it might as well be us). I’m going to regret writing that, if only for the fear of someone misinterpreting what I’m trying to say. I thank God that we’re having such a public house cleaning on some levels, and I thank God that our Church is being called to a higher level of culpability (and I thank God for Jimmy Lago). And as someone that witnessed sexual abuse first hand as a child (my best friend) I commiserate with the suffering of those victims.

The other thread in the Vocations Forum “Vocation for repentant homosexuals” is discussing homosexual vocations quite vigorously, so I’ll leave that to them, and invite anyone reading along here to visit that thread and post. I get too worked up when I read it, and so I’ll refrain from posting there.

In the epistles, Paul lumps homosexuality right in with drunkards and people who swear. (I’m getting ready for work so I don’t have time to look it up–I might be incorrect). I think our ministerial attitude toward homosexuals should be on equal par to the others listed, and I do sense your bitterness towards homosexuals in the church (and I confess that I share it) but the best man at my wedding was a homosexual (my *best *friend from the seminary whom “discovered” he was gay when he went to the major seminary and consequently left ) Several of my friends (including him) went to the major seminary and inexplicably left within the first few months of their stay there. They didn’t want to talk about it.

This happened once, and I cannot verify it beyond giving you my word that the person that told me it is an honest man and is now ordained. During his first weeks in the major seminary Cardinal George (newly appointed as Cardinal) came to meet the major seminarians and was challenged by one of them publicly. I have to believe I’m paraphrasing despite my use of quotations, but he said “When will you at last ordain women to the priesthood?” The Cardinal (allegedly) replied “If you think women can be ordained then that means that you do not understand the character of the priesthood, and therefore I cannot ordain you.” (emphasis mine, and it must be considered a paraphrase, and second hand info). That shut him up quick.

To bring this back into the spirit of the thread, yes, this was the major scandal that I had while discerning priesthood; the depth of the misunderstanding, by seminarians, of our deepest held theology, and at times the *willful *desire to misappropriate it.

Again back when I was in seminary, I prayed to God so hard to lift my anger towards my homosexual classmates from me. We had a reconcilliation service there once with visiting priests and I went to one of the priests that was not from our formation staff and began to confess with this preface: “Father, I have so much anger towards some of my brother seminarians. I know of several whom are dating each other and…”

The priest cut me off saying “What? Are you jealous?”

 

[kargo27]

Great post!

OK, now this is eerily odd. MY best man in our wedding is a friend of mine from 1st grade and he is homosexual. He’s still my best friend and he knows where I stand on homosexuality. He was never in seminary though. To add to that, another of my best friends from college, who was in my fraternity, also came out of the closet. He’s the quintessential “tall, dark and handsome” and the ladies fawned over him. We always suspected it but he dated women in college (of course). If he would have come out of the closet while in the fraternity, he’d have been booted.

And I do know that homosexuality and pedophilia are different and that pedophilia is way worse, I didn’t mean to lump them in as the same. It just seems that with those perversions come other odd things that I won’t go into here. Not exclusively with homosexuals and pedophiles, but it seems that odd behaviors breed more odd behaviors and appetites.

I don’t like when church leaders paint a rosy picture of things because they don’t want to deal with them and just brush them under the rug. Christ didn’t brush the money changers under the rug; instead he upset the carts! We need more upset carts like the task force that’s in the article you linked. This submissive, wait and see stuff is hurting us badly! There’s a lack of courage with many church leaders. Maybe partially because the scandals are new (not really new now, they’re 25 plus years old) or they’re lazy. We need some good John the Baptist types, charging forward like a lion and nipping this stuff in the bud. Am I angry? Yes, I am because I love my Church and they’re giving it a black eye. I like the current Pope because he’s German and hard-nosed. He pulls no punches and tells it like it is. Love him or hate him he commands respect. I believe Jesus was like that. I don’t believe that he was some meek little, wimp. He was tough and must have been to anger so many people. Of course I also think that he was compassionate when he had to be. I’ll bet he was po’d during his Passion but kept a straight face. How could the human side of him not be?

The Rector at my major seminary was a good guy. He’s now Bishop of Austin. During one of his addresses, he said “if the person or persons who were viewing pornography on the library computer would come to me personally so we can get help for them, then we will do that. If I find out who it is without them coming to me then they will be expelled.” He didn’t put up with any bull and he’s a very likeable guy. Everybody loved him. He wasn’t mean or gruff.

In seminary we talked about forming a group of priests that would target other known or suspected practicing homosexual or pedophillic priests. It would almost be like a mob of priests. Sad, huh? It’s sad that we actually had to waste our time thinking of ways to take law into our own hands to help save the Church we cherished because we believed that not enough was being done.

One of the most intelligent guys I’ve ever met was my next door neighbor in seminary. He could absorb philosophy and theology like no one else. Man, was he gifted. He was cynical and a bit jaded with things (as we all were) but he knew his faults and would tell me that he knew them and constantly tried to overcome them. He never showed violent anger, more like contempt or disgust. He was soft spoken and laid-back. He always thought before he spoke. He finished minor seminary and studied at the NAC in Rome. I lost touch with him during those years and when I tried to get back in touch and googled him, figuring that he was now a priest here’s what I found. olqm.org/memorial.htm Long story short, he committed suicide.

My best friend in seminary, probably equal in intelligence to Fr. Michael, left the diocesan priesthood after several years. He said that none of the priests in the diocese welcomed him as a new priest nor did they take him under their wing. There was no camaraderie. He felt alone and isolated. He was a teriffic priest and his parishoners loved him. He baptized my only son. He was a great athlete and would regularly play basketball and baseball/softball. He had an arm like you wouldn’t believe. Man he could zip that baseball with perfection and put it wherever he wanted it. These were just two of the guys that I knew while in seminary. The attrition rate for seminarians is very high. It’s a good thing I guess, since there were many that left that shouldn’t have been there to begin with, LOL!

I’m normally not this “doom and gloom”. Actually, if you knew me, I’m quite fun-loving.

 

[giftoffaith]

Reading about all the troubles that seminarians and priests face makes me more determined than ever to follow my own religious vocation, which is to pray for priests. There is nothing more beautiful than a holy priest, and nothing so distressing (to me) than a priest who is not faithful to their vocation. And because priests face so much temptation, and so many obstacles and difficulties in trying to be faithful - they need all of our prayers more than anything else. Where would the Church be without priests? We all know the answer to that - so we need to support our priests and Bishops, but we also need to hold them accountable as well - we need them, and they need our prayers.

 

[kargo27]

Reading about all the troubles that seminarians and priests face makes me more determined than ever to follow my own religious vocation, which is to pray for priests. There is nothing more beautiful than a holy priest, and nothing so distressing (to me) than a priest who is not faithful to their vocation. And because priests face so much temptation, and so many obstacles and difficulties in trying to be faithful - they need all of our prayers more than anything else. Where would the Church be without priests? We all know the answer to that - so we need to support our priests and Bishops, but we also need to hold them accountable as well - we need them, and they need our prayers.

Amen to that!

 

[joamy]

Reading about all the troubles that seminarians and priests face makes me more determined than ever to follow my own religious vocation, which is to pray for priests. There is nothing more beautiful than a holy priest, and nothing so distressing (to me) than a priest who is not faithful to their vocation. And because priests face so much temptation, and so many obstacles and difficulties in trying to be faithful - they need all of our prayers more than anything else. Where would the Church be without priests? We all know the answer to that - so we need to support our priests and Bishops, but we also need to hold them accountable as well - we need them, and they need our prayers.

I am so glad you posted this… I was going to if someone else hadn’t done so already. We just had a “Crusade for Priests” program start in our diocese- basically helping us as lay people to pray for our priests. You are in my prayers!!!

 

[ladybuggirl84]

I just wanted to say that God knows you so well that He knows all of the choices you will make in your life. He knows the mistakes you will make and how you will get back on your feet. Life has been hard for you and you have been through a lot. Do not beat yourself up over things that are in the past. The past is something to look at and learn from, not be ashamed of.

You need to step back and look at the life you have in front of you now. Look for the opportunities God provides for you to serve. It would help to have someone who can help you travel your path to finding out what God wants you to do next. A spiritual director is a good idea, even if you are not looking into the religious life anylonger. (Have you looked into becoming a brother?)

Trust that the sufferings you have been through will have some impact in the future. You have already used your past to help youth not make the same mistakes you have. Now you have a child to help lead through life and who knows who else you may touch with your life story.

One thing I don’t want you to do is beat yourself up for “vocations down the toilet.” God knows all and no one can make too big of a mistake for Him. He will still use you if you are willing. Trust Him and pray often. Listen to what He has to say and look carefully at the events that come your way. God always has more for us, if we are willing…

 

[Trishie]

Nom, I just checked your thread, and yes, I did write those. I posted them from my journal. You sound such a warm, generous person, Nom. I’m sure you’re a delight to the Lord!
And Nom, there are blessings that have come in my life of special kinds that might have never happened if I’d become a Carmelite as I’d wished for so many years of my childhood…since I was ten, anyway.

I think from all you write in this later post particularly, that you’ll be okay.
Whatever is still in need of resolution in your life, I believe that you will flourish in your life as a whole human person.

With love and prayer, Trishie

By the way, you’re not wrong about the Franciscan connection anyway, despite your mistake…maybe not all of our mistakes are mistakes! My son spent two years with the Franciscans, and I was connected with the Lay Franciscans until we left the area…so Pax et Bonum! As you indicate these connections leave seeds and become part of our ongoing spirituality and affection!