Tyndale, The Protestant Faith

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P.S. RR1213: While you cited Wikipedia, you selectively seem to ignore this fact in the write-up “Although numerous partial and complete English translations had been made from the 7th century onward, Tyndale’s was the first to take advantage of the new medium of print, which allowed for its wide distribution.” It sure debunks the idea that for 1,500 hundred years the accusation that it was to keep the poor and untrained from reading Scripture.
 
rr,

AS for your claim that scriptures should be available to everyone and read by everyone, something the Church said should only be done by the devout, or by those approved by the bishop, I say this

Look at the immense heresies that came about from reading the bible without proper understanding.
The Cathars believed that there were two equal gods, one of the old testament, one of the new. The old one was evil, and no one should obey his laws, the new one was good. The flesh was evil, and care should be taken to avoid incarnating new spirits in the flesh (that is having children) and the old would often die by refusing food, so as to enter heaven.
Now, I would say that these people should not be reading the bible if this is what they get out of it. Better to give them scriptures in some other way, so as to attempt to give them some glimmer of truth, as opposed to their rampant error.

The Waldensians fell into the dualistic heresy as well.

Even today, people use the bible to preach their own version of hate. Look at the Westboro baptist church. Do you think that maybe, if somewhere along the line, someone said, Fred, you are not reading this right, and had the ability to take the bible away, Fred Phelps may have been called to something higher than the gospel of hate that he preaches?

A lone Raven
 
Sorry, sarcasm doesn’t become you I’m afraid.
The end of that post was entirely serious. Honestly, the notion of Protestants “liberating” the Bible is about as believable as a flat earth. I’m genuinely concerned about how thinking people can actually accept these things, what sort of emotional wiring causes them to flip the off switch on their brains, particularly when the information is out there. Indeed, in your case, the information is in the articles you yourself cited. Wycliffe’s heresy, for example, is reported in all of them.

One thing that was troubling about your citations is that the last seems oblivious, to say the least, about the theological implications of Wycliffe’s doctrines, even after correctly reporting them, lauding the sort of secular relativism in which doctrine doesn’t matter. If that is the sort of freedom you are supporting, the freedom to treat blasphemy and worship on equal footing, then fortunately, you have plenty of churches out there to suit you (I recommend the church formerly known as ECUSA). But presumably, a Christian should not support the notion that Christians are free to believe whatever they want while still demanding communion with other Christians.

This statement may come too late, but I am honestly concerned about where you got these ideas and how you managed to swallow them. I can’t think that anyone with any sense has believed them since the nineteenth century at the latest.
 
Seems in keeping with something another Pope wrote:
/applause 👍
Maybe. Or maybe the Church learned that it cannot control interpretation in a free society when anyone can read the Scriptures for themselves and see for themselves what they say.
2 Peter 1:20
First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,
 
Anyone detect any similarity between the “liberation of the Bible” myth and the basic mindset described by Catholic Edward Feser in the following?
The core of the Enlightenment narrative - you might call it the “official story” - is that the Western world languished for centuries in a superstitious and authoritarian darkness, in thrall to a corrupt and power-hungry Church which stifled free inquiry. Then came Science, whose brave practitioners “spoke truth to power,” liberating us from the dead hand of ecclesiastical authority and exposing the falsity of its outmoded dogmas. Ever since, all has been progress, freedom, smiles and good cheer.

The picture of the Middle Ages accepted by most people, including most “educated” people, is in fact little more than an ideologically driven construct, a holdover from the Reformation and Enlightenment eras and the various anti-Catholic propagandists active therein.

Now as the philosopher David Stove has argued, the modern tendency toward hyper-skepticism seems largely to be the result of a massive overgeneralization from a mere handful of cases where common sense turned out to be mistaken.
tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=092006B

This seems pretty sound to me. Occasionally, there is a good and novel idea produced by differing from conventional wisdom. However, every lunatic, nutbar, fringe thinker, cuckoo, moonbat, and sociopath also differs from conventional wisdom. That is the rather humorous aspect of the famous Crackpot Index:
math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html

I would argue that this bias is responsible for a great deal of Protestant hagiography contrary to the historical record. One sees, for example, that they take the Athanasius contra mundum as a rejection of authority, when in fact, Athanasius himself was trying to uphold the authority of the tradition that had been handed down to him by Alexander. The Arians were the crackpot theorists who were advocating the cool new theory as against the old stuffy establishment, and it was precisely this sort of pseudo-intellectualism that encouraged the adoption of Arianism among a number of bishops who thought themselves smarter than both their predecessors and the laity. In that case, it was Greek dialectic philosophy gone wild rather than the Enlightenment ideal, but it turns out those are pretty closely related.

Wycliffe, Hus, Tyndale, and the like strike me as much of the same. Protestant hagiography points out their resistance to authority as if that was in and of itself a good thing, while neglecting to mention that the people in question were, from a Christian perspective, entirely nuts, advocating wild theological innovation that was every bit as off-kilter as the Arian nonsense of the 4th century. It’s that “they opposed authority, therefore, they must be good” attitude that completely ignores the question of whether they opposed authority for any good reason or, better yet, whether the authority was asserting itself for good reason.

Feser’s conclusion is worth reading, because it provides a good summary of why I find this sort of thing troubling. As Feser puts it, “no civilization can be healthy which nurtures such delusions, for they strike at the very heart of a society’s core institutions - family, religion, schools, political institutions, and so forth - and replace the (sometimes critical) allegiance we should feel for them with a corrosive skepticism.” Look at what Protestantism has done to its own structure if you want to see what it can do to a society at large.
 
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