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Ender
Guest
Well, another personal opinion dressed up to look like a moral teaching. I wish my opinions would be accepted simply because I express them in plaintive tones, but as I have no authority in the Church I have to support my positions with rational argument.
The heart of his argument is that when illegals are deported, their children, who may in fact be American citizens (from having been born in this country), remain behind and thus we are responsible for breaking up families. The blame for the unhappy outcome is shifted from the person who created the situation - the people who are here illegally - to the people who are charged with enforcing our laws.
I am really tired of being lectured by prelates who are so obviously uninformed - and misinformed - that they say things like this:
[Archbishop Gomez]* also observed that many of these workers, particularly those from Mexico, had found it “impossible for many to earn a living wage and meet the basic needs of their families” in their country of origin.* (from the article)
First of all, Mexico has the eleventh largest economy in the world. It has the second highest standard of living of any country between the Rio Grande and Tierra del Fuego. The last country in this hemisphere we should believe to be economically impoverished (after Canada) is Mexico. If Archbishop Gomez was serious about helping the poor he would push for the repatriation of the five million Mexicans here illegally so five million really poor people could be brought in. I won’t hold my breath.
Ender
The heart of his argument is that when illegals are deported, their children, who may in fact be American citizens (from having been born in this country), remain behind and thus we are responsible for breaking up families. The blame for the unhappy outcome is shifted from the person who created the situation - the people who are here illegally - to the people who are charged with enforcing our laws.
I am really tired of being lectured by prelates who are so obviously uninformed - and misinformed - that they say things like this:
[Archbishop Gomez]* also observed that many of these workers, particularly those from Mexico, had found it “impossible for many to earn a living wage and meet the basic needs of their families” in their country of origin.* (from the article)
First of all, Mexico has the eleventh largest economy in the world. It has the second highest standard of living of any country between the Rio Grande and Tierra del Fuego. The last country in this hemisphere we should believe to be economically impoverished (after Canada) is Mexico. If Archbishop Gomez was serious about helping the poor he would push for the repatriation of the five million Mexicans here illegally so five million really poor people could be brought in. I won’t hold my breath.
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
I agree with what His Excellency says 100%
Unfortunately, it appears that the “true” Catholics among us will still continue to oppose the Ordinary of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.
I’m not among those “true” Catholics who would do such a thing because I trust the Holy Father’s judgment when it comes to these things and pledge my obedience to whoever he decides to appoint as Ordinary of where I live.
Unfortunately, it appears that the “true” Catholics among us will still continue to oppose the Ordinary of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.
I’m not among those “true” Catholics who would do such a thing because I trust the Holy Father’s judgment when it comes to these things and pledge my obedience to whoever he decides to appoint as Ordinary of where I live.
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Ender
Guest
It is a prudential matter and doesn’t involve issues of faith or morals so there is no “Catholic” position to take any more than there is a Catholic position on the best way to get from LA to Vegas.
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Tigg
Guest
Okay, I’m really confused! Sounds to me like the bishop is saying that illegal foreign workers have a basic right to ignore our laws and be employed regardless of whether of not illegal means such as using false ID, etc. are used. Isn’t this somewhat contra to basic Christian values?
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The_Old_Medic
Guest
If the government would simply fine each and every employer $100,000 for each illegal alien hired, there would not be a problem. Until then, raiding business should be done, on a MUCH more frequent basis. And, the employers should be severely punished for each and every illegal that is found employed by them.
The one in this country illegally should be deported immediately. If they are found in this country again, they should be treated as felons, and jailed for some time, with all possession confiscated…
I speak as the son of an illegal alien (we did not know this until after his death). I would have turned my own father in, had I known that he was in this country illegally. There is simply no excuse for allowing millions of people to invade this country.He came here from Canada, pretended to be a US Citizen, voted in every election, and was NEVER in the US legally.
The Bishops love to speak of “opportunity”. If the Mexican people would stay home, and work to make their own country livable (if necessary revolt against their government), they would not need to come here. Instead, they come to the USA, send their money home to a large degree, and take from this country.
Yes, they pay sales taxes, and in some cases Social Security Taxes. The also cost a lot of tax money in the need for more local cops, more local services, schools, hospitals, etc.
I have also lived in Mexico as a child. I know how poor most of the people are. But their poverty does NOT give them the right to simply decide to move here and stay.
The one in this country illegally should be deported immediately. If they are found in this country again, they should be treated as felons, and jailed for some time, with all possession confiscated…
I speak as the son of an illegal alien (we did not know this until after his death). I would have turned my own father in, had I known that he was in this country illegally. There is simply no excuse for allowing millions of people to invade this country.He came here from Canada, pretended to be a US Citizen, voted in every election, and was NEVER in the US legally.
The Bishops love to speak of “opportunity”. If the Mexican people would stay home, and work to make their own country livable (if necessary revolt against their government), they would not need to come here. Instead, they come to the USA, send their money home to a large degree, and take from this country.
Yes, they pay sales taxes, and in some cases Social Security Taxes. The also cost a lot of tax money in the need for more local cops, more local services, schools, hospitals, etc.
I have also lived in Mexico as a child. I know how poor most of the people are. But their poverty does NOT give them the right to simply decide to move here and stay.
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
Well, this Catholic says to take either the 10, 60, 91 or 210 East to the 15 North and drive about 250 miles. It just depends on where you start…I’d probably take the 10 but that’s because I live west of downtown.
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
Both sides have rights and responsibilities under Christian values. People like you represent the government’s rights and the extraterrestrial’s responsibilities. The Bishop’s Conference and people like me are speaking for the government’s responsibilities and the rights of the same extraterrestrials.
Of course, understanding is a three-edged sword.
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Ender
Guest
Where the bishop gets confused is in assuming that because this is a humanitarian issue it is also a moral issue. It isn’t - that’s what makes it a serious issue. Each action taken involves costs and benefits and if we knew the results our actions would lead to we could say that choice A is moral and choice B is immoral, but that isn’t the case. We don’t know how things will turn out; our decisions are informed guesses therefore the morality of choosing between options A and B is determined solely by our intent, not by the options themselves.
While it is certainly possibly for individuals to behave immorally, it is not possible to say that any particular proposal is any more moral than another if the disagreement over them is merely about the expected outcomes. This is why the bishop’s opinion, while it could (theoretically) be more informed than others, cannot be more moral than anyone else’s because diagnosing what is wrong with our immigration laws is no more a moral conundrum than diagnosing why a car won’t start.
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Tigg
Guest
Exactly so! And I cannot understand why the bishops only address one!
So it is your contention that the responsibility of the U.S. government is to supply the needs for the nationals of another country here illegally? WOW!
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Tigg
Guest
Thank you and this is the crux of the matter, altho many Catholics will not understand.
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utah_rose
Guest
I agree the companies should be fined a lot of money. Some of these are illegally using people’s social security cards and identity and this is fraud.
Why don’t the US Bishops teem up with the Mexican Bishops. We could have a collection for Mexico and install some sort of Peace Corp or mission help helping these people get out of poverty and teaching them jobs, and probably education.
Missionaries do this in other countries, why not Mexico? And why don’t the Bishops face the real problem—the drug cartel. In a way I can’t blame these people for fleeing, but companies hiring these illegals should have such huge fines that it wouldn’t be productive to hire them. If bishops really cared set up in your diocese English classes, job-training classes and ways to earn citizenship.
We could also operate stores and such that would give them jobs. It needn’t be expensive either if volunteers were used. I’m sure that many Bishops could round up Hispanic speaking people who are citizens to help, especially this Bishop of LA.
The US Bishops need a course in common sense.
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
How do you get that from what I said?
The government has a right to arrest extraterrestrials but they also have a responsibility to treat those extraterrestrials humanely during the time of arrest.
Is that more clear?
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Ender
Guest
No one is suggesting that illegals be treated inhumanely during their incarceration; that simply isn’t an issue. However, since they are supposedly coming here to work, I’d take the ones we arrest and sentence them to dig holes for a border fence for one month before deporting them. If they get caught a second time they get to dig holes for a year.
In fact, if we charged illegals for the cost of apprehending, incarcerating, and deporting them and then paid them for working for the states that caught them until they had literally paid their debt (before deporting them), this might help a lot of states with their budget crises.
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
Wow…just…wow. Considering the rate inmates are paid for their labor, you just created a new slave class. Congratulations.
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Ender
Guest
No, I’m just being - slightly - facetious. Nor do I consider it inappropriate to apply some measure of unpleasant punishment to those who sneak in to the country to dissuade them from attempting it multiple times. None of which really applies to the issue raised about the bishops taking a position on immigration and the fact that it isn’t a moral issue.Wow…just…wow. Considering the rate inmates are paid for their labor, you just created a new slave class. Congratulations.
Ender
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