U.S. Catholicism: Decline and Fall

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Another thing to keep in mind is that, as a whole, there are less people being born in america.

The days of the baby boom are over, and the US population is aging
 
Spot on - Brother!!

Here’s his Word on Fire WebSite Address:

wordonfire.org/Home.aspx

Here’s what his WebSite says about him on the About Us page.

MonFrere
I see that he’s a diocesan priest of the Archdiocese of Chicago and that he taught at my Alma Mater in Rome. He must be smart. Afterall, it’s my Alma Mater. :rotfl:

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Another thing to keep in mind is that, as a whole, there are less people being born in america.

The days of the baby boom are over, and the US population is aging
Speak for yourself. I’m maturing. 😃

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I wonder how much of this can be linked to the European and American sexual revolution?

Anyway, it seems there is an uprising of devout catholics, as opposed to the lukewarm.
Yes - I think it can. We are always admonished to avoid the occasion to sin. For those not so inclined to put up a defense just think of what “the pill” did. It’s like leaving a kid alone in a candy store. I know of several Catholic families that have larger families and they get stared at in the grocery stores as if they are almost sexually promiscuous. There is a societal pressure NOT to have children. On this point being Catholic is very counter cultural and it takes a personality that’s not afraid to be different; and for some people this is a very difficult thing to do.

MonFrere
 
Yes - I think it can. We are always admonished to avoid the occasion to sin. For those not so inclined to put up a defense just think of what “the pill” did. It’s like leaving a kid alone in a candy store. I know of several Catholic families that have larger families and they get stared at in the grocery stores as if they are almost sexually promiscuous. There is a societal pressure NOT to have children. On this point being Catholic is very counter cultural and it takes a personality that’s not afraid to be different; and for some people this is a very difficult thing to do.

MonFrere
This I’m more comfortable with. I do believe that for many people, birth control is a conflict that they can’t overcome. I don’t think the issue is sex. People have been promiscuous since the day that Adam was created, but birth control has been a major hurdle for many Catholics, especially since Humanae Vitae.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
On this point being Catholic is very counter cultural and it takes a personality that’s not afraid to be different; and for some people this is a very difficult thing to do.

MonFrere
If I can zero in on this statement. I would say the Church is not ‘counter culture’ as much as it is a separate culture from the world around it. It runs paralel to all cultures (whether dominate or ineffective, depending on the location). Catholic culture will satisfy neither conservative nor liberal, because it cannot be easily pigeonholed.
 
Good Morning, Brother,

In response to your post #35 above: I agree that women religious are a different issue and will think about Brothers only. As a teenager I had the good fortune to do a weekend retreat with the Edmonite Brothers and I was most fortunate to have 3 years of high school with the Brothers of the Holy Cross. Back then I gave myself 10 years and if I was not married at age 28 and still thought the way I do, I would have tried to become a Brother. Did not think myself capable of being a priest but knew I was to serve God in whatever capacity He desired. Married now 45 years, our fifth grandchild born Nov 19, Dawson Frederick, played the lead role in this year’s children’s Christmas pageant on Christmas Eve.

Your basic schedule of half time in public service and half in prayer and community sounds like a good balance. Time for prayer is something the orders can provide that always seems so difficult to achieve in a civilian family. Love of God first. Love of others second. For the record, I am for wearing habits. Outward appearance is a mark of distinction, people know they are dealing with a specialty trained man by his appearance. And the man tends to act in the manner his clothes imply.

Identity and purpose questions: What did the founder say about identity and purpose? In my audit world we use the term “scope creep” for questioning if our original audit assignment is taking on too much because we see the need for more to be done. Some expansion is proper but some is too much beyond the original scope. Frustration frequently follows when we take on more than our original assignment.

Who’s Who: We need to be able to tell the difference between a priest and a non-priest. There has to be a noticeable distinction so identity errors are not made. It is embarrassing to both when ID errors are made. Members of Congress wear a distinctive lapel pin, subtle but noticeable.

Priest Support: I have always thought that Brothers have special training and time to use that training and do things a priest does not have time to do because he is doing other tasks. A squared away priest should welcome the help of Brothers. But, I have also seen some very strong Egos, a superman mentality. It is an occupational hazard suffered by some who are in charge. They forget that Christ washed feet. If the chemistry isn’t right, either find a friendly mediator, a bishop, or move on. I have seen strong capable people who cannot work together but work well alone or with others. The mix of personalities is important. While a priest may not take direction or advice from a Brother, there are those he is subordinate to. They should speak and resolve the issue.

The AM Quandary: Most men simply want to perform the Mission. They want nothing to do with the Administration tasks that demand attention. I ended with just 6,000 hours of mission flying rather than 10 or 12,000 hours, because the Admin duties were done by the senior ranks who earned more. My family appreciated the extra income. I met with people when they were available. Work was rigid flexibility. Things got done, but not when I thought they should. Progress was made but not fast enough for me in most cases. I appreciate the need for quiet time, apart from the hectic world. Admin vs Mission is quandary.

How can the laity help at the parish level? Good question. See next post.
 
Very SHort Homily - I believe that those who claim not to like Mother Angelica are using her powerful personality as an excuse to attack her, when in reality what they hate is the Historic Catholic Faith.
 
How can Laity help at the parish level?

It seems to me that the Laity consists of the paid staff and the volunteer staff. Both need excellent training. Both need to guard against the strong ego hazzard. Both need to be very well organized so various efforts do not get in each other’s way. Training and organization with an eye to personality mixes is essential. Constant contact with the parish pastor - quarterly meetings and informal drop ins keep the laity more on track and in their proper channel. The man at the top sets the tone in any organization.

Training is a weak spot. Often there is not enough, and more often, folks don’t want to take the time to really get trained. And sometimes, with a little bit of training, a newbie thinks he can do it all and ends up stepping on toes.

Staff turnover is always a problem. Knowledge and skill gained form experience does not transfer well. Continuity suffers.

I think there are three major areas - social events, educational efforts, and relationship counselling. Social events consists of the usual get togethers and helping the homeless and hungry. Education splits between kids, teens, and adults. Relationship is between the person and God and the person and those in his life. Unforntunately drugs can be a huge problem too. In all there are no quick fixes and we Americans love quick fixes.

I think Brothers can do a lot in training the laity. From preparing training materials, to teaching, to drop in guidance for On The Job training. I found a lot of satisfaction in doing these very tasks in my Air Force career.

The problem I see is with the volunteer staff vis a vis part-time Brothers with their need for quiet prayer and comunity time. Volunteer staff have day jobs and families and a need to have our quiet time too, even if it just TV, or a book, or a gym. We don’t have that much time to devote to volunteering for jobs we aren’t that well trained to perform.

To do more, we need better training and a schedule that fits our schedule and avoids scope creep and burnout. I think most volunteers are engaged from 2 to 5 years and move on for one reason or another. Brothers are fully committed for their lifetimes. YOU are the bridge of continuity. Priests should love you guys. The laity too, if we knew you better.
 
Thanks for posting that.
👍
Yepper!! Ditto to JustaServant. I like different priests for different reasons. For rallying the troups and giving the marching orders to the laity – Father Corapi is the man!!

MonFrere
 
In an affluent society, who needs God’s constant help?

Unless individuals feel the need to have God in their lives, they tend to ignore Him and make excuses for ignoring Him. When our temporal needs are well met, we no longer think our spiritual needs - a vibrant relationship with Christ - is important enough to attend Mass every Sunday.

When individuals stop going to Mass every week, that is what their children learn. God becomes less important. Moral behavior wanes. And fewer children think a vocation is important. With fewer vocations we have less inexpensive services like Catholic schools run by Sisters or Brothers. A lay teacher, with a family to support, requires a much higher salary, so many are priced out of Catholic schools.

So the question is,

"How do we get our family and friends to regain their personal feeling that they do need Christ in their lives, especially when they are affluent?"

Folks, right now our affluent society is teetering.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. I’m a bit cynical about the hardliners who criticise Vatican II and then ignore the incorrupt remains of John XXIII who ushered the Council into being. They ignore the fact that in the early 1960’s Europe and the UK were still getting over World War II which finished only 18 years before and the increase in expected life span from around 68 to about 80.

Meanwhile Christianity (including Protestant) are booming in China after years of persecution, and Africa is showing phenomenal growth (although a lot of the teaching is not very good).

The reality is that easy times means the church loses its flavour. It is often the case that people only turn to God when every other avenue has been stopped up.

Personally though I think God is going to force the issue. I think the easy times are coming to an end.
 
Yes - I think it can. We are always admonished to avoid the occasion to sin. For those not so inclined to put up a defense just think of what “the pill” did. It’s like leaving a kid alone in a candy store. I know of several Catholic families that have larger families and they get stared at in the grocery stores as if they are almost sexually promiscuous. There is a societal pressure NOT to have children. On this point being Catholic is very counter cultural and it takes a personality that’s not afraid to be different; and for some people this is a very difficult thing to do.

MonFrere
The thing about America is that it has always seemed the duty of parents to give their kids more opportunity than what they themselves had. As the cost of things increase (namely education and health care) the number of high paying blue collar jobs has plummeted. So what do we have now? A society where education is very expensive but also very vital for success. Gone are the days when anyone (Catholic or not) can work at a factory and make enough money to put four, five, or six kids through college. Now, in many cases it takes two parents working full time to put one or two kids thorugh college — or even afford a Catholic high school education. The world has changed and families have changed with it. This is especially true in states like Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, parts of New York and the rest of rust belt.
 
podles.org/dialogue/us-catholicism-decline-and-fall-272.htm

Such a compromise with worldliness does not even maintain Catholic numbers. If the Catholic Church is so meaningless, why bother with it? Why get up on Sunday morning to hear third-rate music and intellectual pablum? If you take the Gospel seriously, you are more to end up in a conservative Protestant church which, for all its limitations, has not surrendered, on some key issues that affect daily life, to the world.
It really falls on the shoulders of the laity with a lot of grace from God to maintain balance with the Church in the world. In so many ways the world has crept into the Church because the laity, bishops, and priests have allowed that to happen.

But what it really is at the deepest level is the Devil’s attack on the Church, especially the priesthood. The Devil is a great strategist and this has been planned for quite awhile. He goes after the laity through the priests. It is difficult being a priest because there seems to be little support from all sides. Thus, he can attack from all sides. People don’t “get it” in this regard. Deny your enemy and you end up denying everything else. Although I do not think leaving the Church will solve the problem, it just shows that they do not take Christ at His Word: “And upon this Rock I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.” The Gospel many Christians want nowadays is not the Gospel of Christ but what they want to hear. So, they go to another building for that. It’s like leaving Christ alone in the Garden. “Can you not watch and pray with me for one hour?” And when the hour is up, unfortunately, there will be much to account for.
 
Well it is up to the new priests to save the church. Roman Catholics must go back to traditional Catholicism and reclaim their identity and beliefs.
I agree. However, I think we need to strengthen Catholic families and marriage. If that happens we wil get all the vocations we need plus other blessings.
 
The church saw what was coming it had Vatican II.
What came was the Cultural Revolution of the1960s. Feminism and the destruction of family life.(don’t get me wrong women have a right to be paid equal treated equal etc)
Whats happend since then was rise in Divorce rise in use of contraception rise in Abortion the apparent freedom of women has turned out to be nothing more than the liberating of men at the cost of women and children.
A man can walk out and leave any time he wants. What use to hold families together doesn’t anymore.

It is the unity of families that will hold communities together that will then hold faiths together. I don’t think Father Corapi or any other Priest in the world will bring people back if they are trying to bring back broken and brittle families.

A famous philosopher once said:-

“When there is Unity in the Family there will be peace throughout the world.”

How do we reverse the destruction of the family.

I’m a Divorced Catholic. My wife who came from a broken home left me then she walked out on the kids.
I’m a single working Dad unable to be a Mother to my Children but just being the best Dad I can be. Its tough on the kids. I think they are victims of Bomb that hit society in the 60s.
 
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