U.S. Catholicism: Decline and Fall

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The first statement is absolutely false. It’s called a generalization. There is no such thing as a conservative. No one is a cookie cutter copy of anyone else. It is the lie spread primarily by those who are called Leftists. I can assure you that your false view of world history is exactly that - false.

Prior to the 1980s, Crack did not exist. As I’ve tried to point out, poor inner-city dealers did not have labs or boats or planes to smuggle the stuff in. It was handed to them.

And you ignore all the actual immorality that has been legislated: graphic pornography, topless bars, strip clubs. Prior to the 1970s, all of that was illegal in some form. You don’t get it.

Your Puritan morality line ignores those that have died from using illegal drugs. Go to a hospital sometime and visit the people who were put there by illegal drugs. Talk to them.

Your attempt at over the top emphasis means nothing. You refuse to believe that there was a time period before the strip clubs, topless bars and adult bookstores. There was. I was there. And the sex maniacs and perverts decided to bring their filth into our neighborhoods. That’s a fact.

I am against legislating immorality and I will turn it down every time I see it.

Close the strip clubs.
Close the topless bars.
Close the adult bookstores.

By the way - a reminder to all reading this -none of you have to get permission to do whatever you want. Not from Catholics and not from the Church. So quit acting like any Catholic is standing in your way. Better yet - ask Jesus Christ to come into your life.

God bless,
Ed
If there’s no such thing as conservatives, who made Rupert Murdoch the bazillionaire that he is? Yes, crack is an invention of the 1980s, but cocaine has been on the black market since the 1920. When it first came out, it was widely used in injectable form. In the 1970s people used old fashioned “freebase” - a more potent version of crack. It’s downside was that it involved the use of highly explosive solvents to make and users often set themselves on fire. All I’m saying is highly addictive drugs are not some “new age” phenomenon. What we call “crystal meth” was as common as dirt from the 1930s to 1970s - it was given out like candy by doctors for “fatigue” or almost anything else you can imagine. ALL of the damage of illegal drugs is positively trivial in comparison to alcohol and tobacco. And yes, things like porn and strip clubs were once illegal, but they were also available and widely tolerated. They also enriched criminal networks. You might also consider that technology has drastically reduced the footprint of these things in our neighborhoods. Nobody much goes to adult bookstores or theaters anymore. It’s all online.

Our times have their problems, but I don’t buy the idea that we used to have some “golden age” of morality.
 
If there’s no such thing as conservatives, who made Rupert Murdoch the bazillionaire that he is? Yes, crack is an invention of the 1980s, but cocaine has been on the black market since the 1920. When it first came out, it was widely used in injectable form. In the 1970s people used old fashioned “freebase” - a more potent version of crack. It’s downside was that it involved the use of highly explosive solvents to make and users often set themselves on fire. All I’m saying is highly addictive drugs are not some “new age” phenomenon. What we call “crystal meth” was as common as dirt from the 1930s to 1970s - it was given out like candy by doctors for “fatigue” or almost anything else you can imagine. ALL of the damage of illegal drugs is positively trivial in comparison to alcohol and tobacco. And yes, things like porn and strip clubs were once illegal, but they were also available and widely tolerated. They also enriched criminal networks. You might also consider that technology has drastically reduced the footprint of these things in our neighborhoods. Nobody much goes to adult bookstores or theaters anymore. It’s all online.

Our times have their problems, but I don’t buy the idea that we used to have some “golden age” of morality.
I would ask you to stop, just for a moment, from enjoying stereotypes and picking up on some facts from someone who was there and which you could check for yourself without much trouble. Respectfully, you seem to have swallowed all or most of the current propaganda. I’m not writing this to slight you.
  1. There was never a Golden Age but there was certainly a period of time when moral behavior was taught, it was encouraged and people actually practiced it - daily.
In the 1950s and 1960s, as a kid, you said please and thank you.
You referred to adults as Mister and Missus.
You said hello to people.
The neighbors were like your parents - most of them. Odds are, if they saw you doing wrong, your mom or dad would hear about it.
For those “bad apple” neighbors who gave kids a hard time, you avoided them. You did not bother them.
There were specific rules of engagement between young men and young women. They were dignified, polite and functional.
There was self-respect and respect for your neighbor.
Lewd magazines were forbidden. If a neighbor threw out a stack of Playboys, they were taken away and disposed of properly.
As a teenager, the lady who helped run the corner store told me smoking was “a dirty habit.”
Drunkeness was looked down upon.
Cussing and swearing did not occur in public, unless fists were about to fly.
Nuns broke up fights at my high school.
God was on our mind daily.
TV was clean and wholesome and could be watched by the enitre family. No bad words, sexually suggestive situations and no rude behavior.

con’t
 
I would ask you to stop, just for a moment, from enjoying stereotypes and picking up on some facts from someone who was there and which you could check for yourself without much trouble. Respectfully, you seem to have swallowed all or most of the current propaganda. I’m not writing this to slight you.
  1. There was never a Golden Age but there was certainly a period of time when moral behavior was taught, it was encouraged and people actually practiced it - daily.
In the 1950s and 1960s, as a kid, you said please and thank you.
You referred to adults as Mister and Missus.
You said hello to people.
The neighbors were like your parents - most of them. Odds are, if they saw you doing wrong, your mom or dad would hear about it.
For those “bad apple” neighbors who gave kids a hard time, you avoided them. You did not bother them.
There were specific rules of engagement between young men and young women. They were dignified, polite and functional.
There was self-respect and respect for your neighbor.
Lewd magazines were forbidden. If a neighbor threw out a stack of Playboys, they were taken away and disposed of properly.
As a teenager, the lady who helped run the corner store told me smoking was “a dirty habit.”
Drunkeness was looked down upon.
Cussing and swearing did not occur in public, unless fists were about to fly.
Nuns broke up fights at my high school.
God was on our mind daily.
TV was clean and wholesome and could be watched by the enitre family. No bad words, sexually suggestive situations and no rude behavior.

con’t
Ed,
Where did you grow up? My parents grew up in the 1930’s & 1940’s and hve differnent experiences.
 
  1. The biggest lie perpetrated by the propagandists was that women were constantly pregnant and slaving over a hot stove to feed an army of kids. The average number of kids in my Detroit neighborhood was TWO.
I was born in the mid-1950s.
There was no birth control pill.
People were not having babies left and right.
The father worked and women stayed home.
My mom could mix cement, do carpentry and paint the house.
She lacked no time to do things around the house.
In the evening, we ate together as a family and had fun together as a family.
And my experience at other kids’ homes told me it was the exact same way elsewhere.

Last Summer, after a number of shootings in a Detroit neighborhood, a father said, “We’ve got to sit down at the dinner table again.”
  1. We respected our parents. It was also possible to respect people on TV as persons, not just celebrities. It did not surprise me to learn that some actors were just as nice in real life as the roles they played on television.
Recently, I saw a little kid cussing out mom in the parking lot of a supermarket. We would never had done such a thing, or if someone did, it would have resulted in a near death experience and No, I’m not talking about beating the stuffing out of the kid, but real punishment that would include spanking (Dr. Spock got it wrong).

God bless,
Ed
 
I would ask you to stop, just for a moment, from enjoying stereotypes and picking up on some facts from someone who was there and which you could check for yourself without much trouble. Respectfully, you seem to have swallowed all or most of the current propaganda. I’m not writing this to slight you.
  1. There was never a Golden Age but there was certainly a period of time when moral behavior was taught, it was encouraged and people actually practiced it - daily.
In the 1950s and 1960s, as a kid, you said please and thank you.
You referred to adults as Mister and Missus.
You said hello to people.
The neighbors were like your parents - most of them. Odds are, if they saw you doing wrong, your mom or dad would hear about it.
For those “bad apple” neighbors who gave kids a hard time, you avoided them. You did not bother them.
There were specific rules of engagement between young men and young women. They were dignified, polite and functional.
There was self-respect and respect for your neighbor.
Lewd magazines were forbidden. If a neighbor threw out a stack of Playboys, they were taken away and disposed of properly.
As a teenager, the lady who helped run the corner store told me smoking was “a dirty habit.”
Drunkeness was looked down upon.
Cussing and swearing did not occur in public, unless fists were about to fly.
Nuns broke up fights at my high school.
God was on our mind daily.
TV was clean and wholesome and could be watched by the enitre family. No bad words, sexually suggestive situations and no rude behavior.

con’t
I don’t doubt that YOU remember times like these or that we’ve lost some civility and breeding in our culture, but I don’t think we can say “those times” were universally better. Your experience, I’m guessing, involved a solid upbringing in a working/middle class area, probably in the Midwest or someplace like it, and probably as a white guy. Nothing wrong with any of that, but I also grew up around men who were there in the 40s and 50s and knew a very different experience. There were plenty of seedy, hard, lewd people back then, as now. They may have kept it out of the spotlight of mainstream society better than today, but it was all there. There were enormous concerns about juvenile delinquency at the time.

I guess the bottom line here is that whether or not times were really that much better or not, we’re stuck in the time we have, barring any exotic physics you may have mastered. All we can do is the best with what we have. If you believe in your faith, what other people may or may not be doing should be of no consequence. If Christianity was a religion based on easy times, Jesus would have been born to a powerful Roman family, not where he was.

Blaming popular culture is a pretty weak excuse. If Christians could carry on in Nero’s Rome, you can certain squeak by in modern America. If what you have to sell is really all that powerful, AND if you can model it right, you wouldn’t need governments to legislate morality or fight a culture war for you. People would be envious of what you have for a spiritual life and would be moved to find out more of their own accord.
 
Dear pnewton,

Please do share with us how the Church is better off 50 years later?

Could it be…
-An increase in vocations? NO
-Respected priesthood/religious? NO
-Catholic schools closing? NO
-An increase in beautiful religious art/architecture/music? NO
-The faithful having a better grasp of the truths of their faith and Holy Scripture? NO
-Abundant liturgical abuses? NO
-Greater reverence for the Holy Eucharist? NO
-An increase in sincere conversions? NO
-Greater devotion amongst the faithful? NO
-All the divisions in the Church, e.g, liberal v conservative v traditional, etc…? NO
-New schismatic sects, right and left? NO
-Ordaining women priests? NO
-Great confusion amongst the flock? NO
-Greater apathy amongst the flock? NO
-The onslaught of new scandals in the media everyday? NO
-Rebellious women religious in open defiance of their bishops? NO

I can’t think of one way in which Holy Mother Church is holier, on better footing, more devout, pouring forth with abundant fruits than it was 50 years ago. Perhaps you have an insight I am missing. I would really like to hear how the Church is better off 50 years after the start of the Second Vatican Council. Please do share.

Thanks
Well, I am not going to ask my own question and give an answer off the top of my head based on how I feel. The Vatican has said both vocations and the number of Catholics has increased.

catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=36311

There was a report in the U.S. a while back that had the Baptist and Catholics as the only two major denominations gaining membership. I will try and find it, or you can search threads here. It has been linked often.

But mostly, I see and live the Catholic faith eveyday in my community. It causes me nothing but rejoicing and optimism for the future. In the perspective of history and some of the really tough times, I do not thing what we have today is a problem at all.
 
There was a report in the U.S. a while back that had the Baptist and Catholics as the only two major denominations gaining membership.
I don’t know about the Baptists and I don’t know if it’s growing but in the cities at least the Hispanic and Polish membership in Catholicism is strong.
 
I don’t doubt that YOU remember times like these or that we’ve lost some civility and breeding in our culture, but I don’t think we can say “those times” were universally better. Your experience, I’m guessing, involved a solid upbringing in a working/middle class area, probably in the Midwest or someplace like it, and probably as a white guy. Nothing wrong with any of that, but I also grew up around men who were there in the 40s and 50s and knew a very different experience. There were plenty of seedy, hard, lewd people back then, as now. They may have kept it out of the spotlight of mainstream society better than today, but it was all there. There were enormous concerns about juvenile delinquency at the time.

I guess the bottom line here is that whether or not times were really that much better or not, we’re stuck in the time we have, barring any exotic physics you may have mastered. All we can do is the best with what we have. If you believe in your faith, what other people may or may not be doing should be of no consequence. If Christianity was a religion based on easy times, Jesus would have been born to a powerful Roman family, not where he was.

Blaming popular culture is a pretty weak excuse. If Christians could carry on in Nero’s Rome, you can certain squeak by in modern America. If what you have to sell is really all that powerful, AND if you can model it right, you wouldn’t need governments to legislate morality or fight a culture war for you. People would be envious of what you have for a spiritual life and would be moved to find out more of their own accord.
Hey, don’t blame this on me. Prior to the perverted “Sexual Revolution,” self-restraint was the norm. The media certainly embraced it. Radio, TV, newspapers. They all had the spotlight on what was good and what had some virtue.

So before anyone thinks that this is simply my experience, I invite you to read this:

catholic.org/featured/reality.php?ID=1493

God bless,
Ed
 
Hey, don’t blame this on me. Prior to the perverted “Sexual Revolution,” self-restraint was the norm. The media certainly embraced it. Radio, TV, newspapers. They all had the spotlight on what was good and what had some virtue.

So before anyone thinks that this is simply my experience, I invite you to read this:

catholic.org/featured/reality.php?ID=1493

God bless,
Ed
Whether the world used to be a wonderful place is neither here nor there. No amount of pining, lamenting or even legislating will make it 1955 again. For better or worse (you would contend worse), the world is not at all the same place and we are not the same people. As troubled as this little world of ours may be, there is nothing which prevents YOU from attending Mass, keeping up with confession etc. Just because the libertines managed to open some strip clubs and porn sites doesn’t mean you have to patronize them. Nor do you have to divorce and go through multiple marriages.
We each of us only can control what goes on with ourselves and how we respond to the world.
 
Whether the world used to be a wonderful place is neither here nor there. No amount of pining, lamenting or even legislating will make it 1955 again. For better or worse (you would contend worse), the world is not at all the same place and we are not the same people. As troubled as this little world of ours may be, there is nothing which prevents YOU from attending Mass, keeping up with confession etc. Just because the libertines managed to open some strip clubs and porn sites doesn’t mean you have to patronize them. Nor do you have to divorce and go through multiple marriages.
We each of us only can control what goes on with ourselves and how we respond to the world.
My faith is not a private matter, as Pope Benedict reminded all Americans. There are those who post here only out of concern for the government and that nasty word “power.” Which only means: I can force you to do what I want you to do.

I will continue to encourage my fellow Catholics to actively work to help others understand the human degradation caused by porn, strip clubs and topless bars. How an entire country can be polluted by this. And how it damages the national psyche. And once again, this is not simply my view or my own experience.

catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=38382

God bless,
Ed
 
I think that we have to be very careful not to blame the Church for the changes in society. We can certainly hold the Church accountable for how she responds to those changes, but not for the changes themselves. Let’s just examine three important historical periods from among the many.

During the Middle Ages the laity was very lax in its adherence to the faith. In fact, a lot of “religious” practices were superstitious nonsense, which often led to knee-jerk reactions by conservative forces that dragged people in the opposite direction and into heresy. This was not created by the Church. It was a social reality. The aristocracy and the merchant classes were vying for power. Corruption was the order of the day.

The Muslims were invading Europe from the East and West, not always for religious reasons. Most of the wars between Muslims and Christians were about economics. They had more to do with control over certain metropolitan markets and travel routes than about faith. While the popes were struggling to protect the faith of the Europeans, monarchs were struggling to protect their economic interests. Somehow the two interests ended up blending, at times making it impossible to distinguish what the ultimate goal was. The common Muslim and Christian was confused about the reasons for these wars. He was being told that it was all for God, but he did not see an increase in faith on either side, Muslim or Christian, what he saw was an increase in political and economic power, which did not trickle down to the working man.

Sexual abuses and a blatant disregard for sexual integrity was very common. Simply put, polite people did not talk about it. That does not mean that it was not there.

Fast-forward to the Protestant Reformation. A new age of enlightenment comes in. People realize that that both king and pope have been playing games with them. As a reaction there come into play forces that turned out to be heretical. On the one hand you had the Lutheran and Calvinist trying to salvage Christianity by embracing Sola Scriptura. However, on the other hand, you had two powerful Catholic movements that were also leading people astray, Quietists and Illuminati. These were knee-jerk Catholic conservatives. They represented the common man’s search for God in a world that was filled with confusing messages. They decided to stop listening. Unfortunately, they also stopped listening to reason and ended up in serious moral and spiritual trouble.

These forces were conceived by the Church. The social confusion of the time gave birth to them. With the eruption of a new worldview, poor education and even poorer catechesis that should have equipped the masses to deal with this new worldview, the result was the anti-clerical revolution that reached its highest expression during the French Revolution and ushered in a renewal of the Church.

Finally, you have the 20th century. With the expansion of Europe to the Americas, Asia, and Africa new social and economic challenges arise on the scene. Science also began to make great strides. Once again, man turns in on himself and becomes his own god. This gave rise to the Modernists, Socialism and Communism.

The Church tried to face down these forces through condemnation. This worked for a handful of people who did not need the condemnations. As often happens, you end up preaching to the choir. Those who were embracing this newest form of enlightenment were not the people reading the condemnations of Modernism, atheistic Socialism and Communism. The person reading them was the person who was not involved in any of it.

As far as religious education, what happened was disastrous. In the 1950s the Church realized that it was not enough for people to know the answers to doctrinal questions. For centuries, those answers had been available and Catholics still did not have a solid and healthy spiritual life. Most Catholics were people of observance. They followed the rules and observed the traditions. But their life of prayer, asceticism and charity was very limited. Those who were truly contemplatives, ascetics and missionaries in society were reduced to the religious and the ordained. The average Catholic was content to go to mass on Sunday and follow the rules during the week. It became evident that the personal encounter with Christ that the saints had was not the common experience, as it should be.

The unfortunate outcome was another knee-jerk reaction. We took away the formulas and concepts and tried to create “experiences” for people to encounter Christ. That was not the answer. You cannot have faith without reason and reason without faith. As I always tell my students, every Catholic must do theology, not study it. The study of theology is one thing. The doing of theology is another. The man of faith must seek understanding. The experience with the divine must be followed by the search for understanding its meaning and its application in daily life. This is what great men and women like Teresa of Calcutta, John Paul II, Giana Molla and others exemplify for us today.

We cannot blame the Church for what is happening in the world. Catholics, like every other people of faith live in this world. What we must do is to help the Catholic embrace the two movements that will keep him on the right path, contemplation and recollection. Pointing fingers has never helped anyone become a saint.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
What we must do is to help the Catholic embrace the two movements that will keep him on the right path, contemplation and recollection.
Then bring back the TLM, together with its art, architecture, and music, because it was all very conducive to contemplation and recollection.

The Novus Ordo makes contemplation and recollection impossible. It appears to be designed that way.
 
I’m not going to say the Pope deserved some of the blame but I remember more of the “use your conscience” clause coming out of the earlier Progressio Populorum and that the Pope’s moral theologists saw nothing wrong with ABC. But then everyone got his information differently.

Not a big deal except it seemed to have started a different Catholic mindset of no more rules and no more Latin. Twenty years later, however, it was discovered that they had misinterpreted just about everything that came out of the Vatican.
…under the greatest pope of the 20th century,Pius X11…the Catholic church in America always had hundreds of thousands of converts a year…it was only after Vatican 2 that a drastic deline occured…this was planned and it has worked exceedingly well for the enemies of God! Under Pope John Paul 11 it was total disaster as he was silent during the worst sex scandals in the history of our beloved church,thats why he is always complimented by the secular press…why else would they compliment him so.then when he actually went to communist cuba and allowed dictator castro to be on the stage with him and then embraced this un-rependent murderer that did it! Still Jesus warned us and that he also promised to always be with us.as in China,our brothers and sisters in Christ worship in secret in the fields and cellers…maybe thats how it is…in the book…With God in Russia,written by a priest who was there for 20 years and how he secretly visited Catholics and witnessed to them…he noticed right away when he was released that here in America the devotion was watered down…maybe thats the ticket. Jesus is only understood and appreciated by ordinary humans under dire circumstances as in a dictatorship…mmmmm…
 
.Under Pope John Paul 11 it was total disaster as he was silent during the worst sex scandals in the history of our beloved church,thats why he is always complimented by the secular press…
First, there were not eleven Pope John Pauls. Second, if you would look beyond media sound bites, you would know that the vast majority of these sex scandals occured in the sixties and seventies, prior to the the pontificate of the grear Venerable John Paul II.

Oh, and as far as America is concerned, the decline of attendance continued throughout the period precediing Vataican II and has only recently leveled off and shown improvement.

gallup.com/poll/117382/church-going-among-catholics-slides-tie-protestants.aspx

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com...roduction/Cms/POLL/nxuhin33gekzknj4nwnwpw.gif
 
I’d echo, in paraphrase, something of what JREd said: Mystical Christianity is something you do rather than read, think, write or talk about.

Pray hard. The Jesus Prayer is very good.
Expel sin from your life. Be thorough.
Do works of mercy.
Attend the sacraments. Adoration is very good too.
Develop a healthy fear of Hell.
Realise that Jesus is real.
Remain calm. All the fuss and bother ends in the grave, anyway.
 
I’d echo, in paraphrase, something of what JREd said: Mystical Christianity is something you do rather than read, think, write or talk about.

Pray hard. The Jesus Prayer is very good.
Expel sin from your life. Be thorough.
Do works of mercy.
Attend the sacraments. Adoration is very good too.
Develop a healthy fear of Hell.
Realise that Jesus is real.
Remain calm. All the fuss and bother ends in the grave, anyway.
Excellent.
 
First, there were not eleven Pope John Pauls. Second, if you would look beyond media sound bites, you would know that the vast majority of these sex scandals occured in the sixties and seventies, prior to the the pontificate of the grear Venerable John Paul II.
Exactly. And one very seldom wants to mention who was in charge then. The news media certainly doesn’t.
 
Then bring back the TLM, together with its art, architecture, and music, because it was all very conducive to contemplation and recollection.

The Novus Ordo makes contemplation and recollection impossible. It appears to be designed that way.
I think that you may be misunderstanding what contemplation and recollection are. If I may suggest a great classical work on this subject, The Third Spiritual Alphabet by Francisco de Osuna, written about 1530. Contemplation and recollection have nothing to do with the way that we pray at mass or any other liturgical function. They are virtues. that one lives day to day. We have lost sight of how to live the contemplative and recollected life.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Ed,

Since I’m not nearly as pessimitic as you are for the future of U.S. Catholicism, I want to encourage you as I encouraged others on the post earlier to read “Secularity and the Gospel” Ronald Rolheiser, ed., 2006. It came out of a series of conferences sponsored by Rolheiser’s religious community the Order of Mary Immaculate between 2002-2005 in the U.S, Canada and England.

For them secularity is the cultural issue to address when discussing evangelization in North America and Europe. It’s focus was to evaluate secularity recognizing both its positive dimesions and negatives especially in light of the gospel.

They also do an excellent job discussing strengths and weaknesses of both liberal and conservative positions and their approaches to secularity. They would argue I suspect that the issue is how both groups within the church approach secularity with the attending consequences for their positions on a range of issues ranging from sexuality through the gamut of social justice issues.

All sides in the church - liberal and conservative - have blind spots. An honest appraisal of these positions would go a long way towards bringing some sort of peace within the church.

It’s hopeful discussion is important as we continue moving forward as a church…

Christ’s peace,
Tpw
 
Ed,

Since I’m not nearly as pessimitic as you are for the future of U.S. Catholicism, I want to encourage you as I encouraged others on the post earlier to read “Secularity and the Gospel” Ronald Rolheiser, ed., 2006. It came out of a series of conferences sponsored by Rolheiser’s religious community the Order of Mary Immaculate between 2002-2005 in the U.S, Canada and England.

For them secularity is the cultural issue to address when discussing evangelization in North America and Europe. It’s focus was to evaluate secularity recognizing both its positive dimesions and negatives especially in light of the gospel.

They also do an excellent job discussing strengths and weaknesses of both liberal and conservative positions and their approaches to secularity. They would argue I suspect that the issue is how both groups within the church approach secularity with the attending consequences for their positions on a range of issues ranging from sexuality through the gamut of social justice issues.

All sides in the church - liberal and conservative - have blind spots. An honest appraisal of these positions would go a long way towards bringing some sort of peace within the church.

It’s hopeful discussion is important as we continue moving forward as a church…

Christ’s peace,
Tpw
You have clearly misinterpreted my position. I am not pessimistic at all about the future of the Church. I am attempting to show that the root causes of the recent problems are found in certain events that occurred after Vatican II and which have nothing to do with Vatican II at all. A series of coordinated attacks (1) separated Catholic institutions of higher learning from the Church hierarchy, (2) instituted a down with authority, sexual cohabitation, illegal drug using sub-culture, (3) supported by an increasingly sexualized mass media and movie industry.

There are no purely liberal or conservative elements in the Church. There are only two types of Catholics: mostly obedient and mostly disobedient.

There is no value in looking at the Church as some type of political organization. This would be a dysfunctional view. Jesus said, “Why do you say to me lord, lord and do not the things I tell you?”

A priest on Catholic radio said that we will have an obedient Church. He was not interested in how big the Church would be, as some here, but concerned about a Church whose members were living as they were taught.

I see one thing very clearly - the constant, ongoing worship of the god change. The Church cannot do what some want. Period. Although some post here as if the Church is a purely manmade organization and can be “negotiated” with. That is not the case, although others insist otherwise.

God bless,
Ed
 
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