C
Contarini
Guest
mark a:
Edwin
Well no, you don’t.
Edwin
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Z
Zooey
Guest
mark a:
In order:
*]No, I’m not. I am serious…
*]No, this is not a joke. More like a tragedy, really.
*]I don’t *think *you are in another universe, but
with computers,
who knows?
*]I prefer :yup: chicken salad on toast myself…but that’s
me.
*]Apparently not.
This is a popular school of thought among the far left in Protestant churches. The idea is that everybody just is very tolerant of everybody else, because there is no such thing as absolute truth. Everything is relative. (Except, of course, there is absolutely no such thing as sin).
The people I know who believe this often seem to be very nice people…until you mention holding to a few moral absolutes. Like, say, abortion is murder, gay marriage is an oxymoron, or that the 10 commandments are not the 10 suggestions…But they smile politely, they dress well, & they show up in church on Sunday (making a point not to take anything that is said literally, because “it’s all the same, no matter what you believe…[soft music, snowy clouds against a blue sky], we are all the same”…
(Does anybody have a smiley that pukes?? I need one right about here…)
T
Timothy888
Guest
In order:
*]No, I’m not. I am serious…
*]No, this is not a joke. More like a tragedy, really.
*]I don’t *think *you are in another universe, but
*]I prefer :yup: chicken salad on toast myself…but that’s
*]Apparently not.
This is a popular school of thought among the far left in Protestant churches. The idea is that everybody just is very tolerant of everybody else, because there is no such thing as absolute truth. Everything is relative. (Except, of course, there is absolutely no such thing as sin).
The people I know who believe this often seem to be very nice people…until you mention holding to a few moral absolutes. Like, say, abortion is murder, gay marriage is an oxymoron, or that the 10 commandments are not the 10 suggestions…But they smile politely, they dress well, & they show up in church on Sunday (making a point not to take anything that is said literally, because “it’s all the same, no matter what you believe…[soft music, snowy clouds against a blue sky], we are all the same”…
(Does anybody have a smiley that pukes?? I need one right about here…)
What sort of Protestants have you met?
All Christians everywhere, would agree with you on all points, except a baby that would kill it’s mother should be aborted , two heads, three, that may be because of this world, but i’ll put bets we’re responsible in some way for this.(there you go i must be a sinner! putting bets on anything! even if i’m figuratively speaking)
Protestant Christians and Roman Catholic Christians would agree with you, there are many non Christians in all Churches,yours included, even those who would undermine the Church of Christ, so be on your toes!
Don’t put everyone in the same pot, they aren’t if they are Christian and many Protestants are, they disagree with Roman Catholic teaching, not with the teachings of Christ.There are Protestants who disagree with the teachings of Christ, they aren’t even Christian! Pity they are allowed to spout such JUNK!
There are no politics if you are a Christian, just a calling from our Father through our Lord Jesus Christ, He’s a dictator, so liberalism, far left and far right, middle of the road, and any other political leanings are out of the question, any humanistic view would be, whether it’s Mother of God or Women ordained.
God was before the Earth was created, He made the rules and gave us a way to salvation, He had no mother.The only intercessor is His only begotten Son, anyone who talks (prays) to anyone else except the Son does not know the Father. Hard but true.
Anyone who disobeys Gods’ commands doesn’t know Jesus, yet a Christian has faith and it produces works, if it doesn’t then it’s dead, so it doesn’t know Christ, and only faith in Christ saves.
It is not on works we are saved, it’s through faith.
What do you think it means when it says “these three remain; faith , hope and love and the greatest of these is love”?
Try the blue smiley, at least it looks sick!
I do hope all of this doesn’t make you sick, if it does, get well soon!
Peace to you
Yes i know what you mean, i really do.
How this stuff ever got into the Christian church, yours included, i’ll don’t know, i mean Benedict the 16th is called to do the work of an apostle in your church, he is pope, the head on earth of your church, why complain about his calling, when he clearly was!
It doesn’t matter what he did when he was young.
He’s been called now!
He will do what’s expected of him, hopefully what God has called him to do in Christ.
He’s learnt a lot in his life, not all good, yet that was then, this is now. Christs grace has taught him more than we can understand.
Thank God for Benedict XVI, don’t damn him with bad criticism, which anyway Christ will have used to His good, it has nothing to do with his present post.
Was it different with you ?
It wasn’t with me!
C
cestusdei
Guest
Timothy,
Jesus is God. He had a mother, Mary. Hence she is the Mother of God. If you pray for others you are an intecessor. If you preach to others you mediate Jesus to them. Does that mean you somehow supplant Jesus? I suggest you read some of the essays about Mary on www.catholic.com before you subtly try to undermine Catholic beliefs.
Jesus is God. He had a mother, Mary. Hence she is the Mother of God. If you pray for others you are an intecessor. If you preach to others you mediate Jesus to them. Does that mean you somehow supplant Jesus? I suggest you read some of the essays about Mary on www.catholic.com before you subtly try to undermine Catholic beliefs.
F
flameburns623
Guest
Cestus:
God is eternal.
The Mother of Jesus was NOT.
God pre-existed Mary.
She therefore could not have conceived God.
She COULD have been (and was) the Theotokos–the God-bearer–because in another sense ALL Christians are God-bearers–all of uscarry the life of God in some special sense within us. She could NOT however have been the progenitor of the Divine. THAT is the ordinary, gramatical meaning of “mother”.
Sorry to quibble, but then–y’all have been feuding with the Orthodox over a single vowel for a millenium. I suspect God spends a lot of time rolling on the floor laughing at all of us.
Except when our arguments turn deadly, which is tragically too often.
C
Catholic_Dude
Guest
I agree in the fact that this topic does get out of control and is laughable much of the time. But there is a serious side to it and it is not out of line to make that claim:
Luke1-41 And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord. 46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. 48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. 49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name. 50 And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.
How did God become man, I dont know, but He did, and it was through a human woman. I dont know if anyone ever made the claim that divinity came from Mary, it isnt true if they did. We never said that Mary was God or a mini-god though many prots think that we do, She said Herself God is Her Savior and She is the servant.
Second, not everyone is a God-Bearer, unlike modern society where people in a favored position are required to share the wealth, this was a single act attributed to one woman alone, not Britney Spears and Julia Roberts and elton john. Yet all can find favor in God’s eyes because “His mercy is from generation to generation, to them that fear Him.”
Other than that I agree that this topic gets out of control going into “details” way to often to the point it becomes counter-productive.
C
cestusdei
Guest
To deny that Mary is Mother of God is to deny the divinity of Christ.
F
flameburns623
Guest
Nah. Protestants are generally absolutely orthodox on the issue of the divinity of Christ…
They decline to employ the term ‘Mother of God’ because they reject the implied doctrine of the divinity of MARY. I remind you again–to claim that a woman is the ‘mother’ of something implies that she pre-dates and is the proximate source of the offspring. Mary does not pre-date God nor is she the source of Christ’s divinity. Ergo, the title “Mother of God” is inaapropriate at best, and implies polytheism at worst.
C
cestusdei
Guest
Not at all. Only those who insist on misunderstanding its meaning can say that. Mary is Jesus mother. He is God. Ergo she can be called Mother of God. I disagree that Protestants are consistant on the divinity of Christ. Many denominations no longer believe it.
U
UnworthySoul
Guest
To the extent that we are the ones electing him (through the Cardinal Electors), that is true.
Except that we are NOT the ones electing him. It’s not the electoral college of the USA. The laity has no say in the election of Pope.
But it is most certainly everyone’s business, to the extent that the office of the papacy impacts the whole world. It impacts Catholics, other Christian denominations, the Islamists, the Hindus, major (and sometimes minor) countries and their governments, and on and on.
While that much may be true, it does not change the fact that the election of a Pope exists outside of their approval or (name removed by moderator)ut.
Has no one been paying attention the last 27 1/2 years? Do you all think that the Pope operates in a vacuum, or only within the legal and physical (and spiritual) realm of the Catholic Church? John Paul 2 obviously didn’t think so, and he acted accordingly on issues such as birth control (where he was arm in arm with the Islamic countries in trying to defeat action through the U.N.) and AIDS.
So what? This still does not give them one iota of (name removed by moderator)ut on who is or is not elected.
I would say that to the extent that anyone is touched by the Pope, through his leadership, his speeches, his encyclicals, and any other means he uses to communicate, it is their business because they are being impacted.
I fail to understand what you mean by “their business” as you say it. You mean they can comment on it? Sure, but so what? It still has no bearing whatsoever on what the Pope does. They (or we for that matter) do not dictate what the Pope teaches, nor should we attempt to. I’m sorry if they are being impacted, or if they dislike the Truth the Pope speaks, but the reality is that Truth exists independent of their, or anyone’s assent.
I have heard the comment made to non Catholics who were upset about the choice that it was none of their business. I disagree with that answer; I think we can do much better. It is always an opportunity to evangelize; and for those of you who are offended, you might try evangelizing in charity instead of getting offended. Otherwise, you are missing the opportunity God is giving you.
This last paragraph I would tend to agree with. But only if followed through to the logical conclusion as you have left the sentiment incomplete. You’re right that we should educate them on the Truth as maintained by the Catholic Church. But, for those who refuse to accept the Truth, we must not fall into the disastrous stance of relativism; i.e. saying, “Well, whatever works for you, you find your own truth” or anything like that. There is but one Truth. No more, no less. The Magisterium has that Truth, the splinter factions do not. They may possess part of it, but not Truth in it’s entirety. As such, they are not really competent to try and influence the election of a Pope, nor should they have one single bit of influence on said election.
Except that we are NOT the ones electing him. It’s not the electoral college of the USA. The laity has no say in the election of Pope.
But it is most certainly everyone’s business, to the extent that the office of the papacy impacts the whole world. It impacts Catholics, other Christian denominations, the Islamists, the Hindus, major (and sometimes minor) countries and their governments, and on and on.
While that much may be true, it does not change the fact that the election of a Pope exists outside of their approval or (name removed by moderator)ut.
Has no one been paying attention the last 27 1/2 years? Do you all think that the Pope operates in a vacuum, or only within the legal and physical (and spiritual) realm of the Catholic Church? John Paul 2 obviously didn’t think so, and he acted accordingly on issues such as birth control (where he was arm in arm with the Islamic countries in trying to defeat action through the U.N.) and AIDS.
So what? This still does not give them one iota of (name removed by moderator)ut on who is or is not elected.
I would say that to the extent that anyone is touched by the Pope, through his leadership, his speeches, his encyclicals, and any other means he uses to communicate, it is their business because they are being impacted.
I fail to understand what you mean by “their business” as you say it. You mean they can comment on it? Sure, but so what? It still has no bearing whatsoever on what the Pope does. They (or we for that matter) do not dictate what the Pope teaches, nor should we attempt to. I’m sorry if they are being impacted, or if they dislike the Truth the Pope speaks, but the reality is that Truth exists independent of their, or anyone’s assent.
I have heard the comment made to non Catholics who were upset about the choice that it was none of their business. I disagree with that answer; I think we can do much better. It is always an opportunity to evangelize; and for those of you who are offended, you might try evangelizing in charity instead of getting offended. Otherwise, you are missing the opportunity God is giving you.
This last paragraph I would tend to agree with. But only if followed through to the logical conclusion as you have left the sentiment incomplete. You’re right that we should educate them on the Truth as maintained by the Catholic Church. But, for those who refuse to accept the Truth, we must not fall into the disastrous stance of relativism; i.e. saying, “Well, whatever works for you, you find your own truth” or anything like that. There is but one Truth. No more, no less. The Magisterium has that Truth, the splinter factions do not. They may possess part of it, but not Truth in it’s entirety. As such, they are not really competent to try and influence the election of a Pope, nor should they have one single bit of influence on said election.
U
UnworthySoul
Guest
It does nothing of the sort, and to imply such is to intentionally twist our beliefs for your own ends. Please explain to me what Mary’s biological relation to Jesus is in your own words. Furthermore, you show me a Catholic who has truly deified MAry and I will show you an apostate.
W
wcknight
Guest
AHhh " There you go AGAIN " claiming Catholics believe something that NO Catholic in their right mind has EVER claimed or ever will claim… MARY IS NOT DIVINE, and no Catholic has ever ever made such a statement NOR have they ever implied any such thing…
No doctrine, no dogma, and no official Catholic teaching will ever say such a thing.
But hey, that’s why we’re Catholic and why you’re Protestant. You guys will never get the TRUTH because you guys are always distorting our beliefs in one way or another.
W
wcknight
Guest
AS far as what was originally on this thread, the UCC guy is obviously some liberal protestant. And he is disappointed that some liberal or moderate was not elected. Maybe he was expecting the Church would move it’s philosophy towards their direction. I didn’t particularly see any insult in his reply. He was hoping for a liberal or moderate, but there aren’t too many of those around, either in the hierarchy or in the Catholic faith overall.
(I notice from the polls here that there are not very many liberal Catholics visiting these forums, too bad it may not be so in the overall Catholic population)
Thanks to the Holy Spirit THAT did not happen. Moral relativism is exactly what the new Pope spoke out against. AND it is exactly the problem being spread by some of our non Catholic friends. IF some of the ecumenical Christians want to move in a Catholic direction, that is fine, BUT Catholics should NEVER abandon the Truth just to be more friendly to our non-Catholic brethern.
Sorry homosexual behavior, abortion, sexual promiscuity, and immorality is still a sin, always has been, always will be. There are some things that are absolutely wrong, and will remain wrong.
(I notice from the polls here that there are not very many liberal Catholics visiting these forums, too bad it may not be so in the overall Catholic population)
Thanks to the Holy Spirit THAT did not happen. Moral relativism is exactly what the new Pope spoke out against. AND it is exactly the problem being spread by some of our non Catholic friends. IF some of the ecumenical Christians want to move in a Catholic direction, that is fine, BUT Catholics should NEVER abandon the Truth just to be more friendly to our non-Catholic brethern.
Sorry homosexual behavior, abortion, sexual promiscuity, and immorality is still a sin, always has been, always will be. There are some things that are absolutely wrong, and will remain wrong.
L
LindaS
Guest
OK, here’s my take on this for what it’s worth. What was the forum for this statement? If it was a UCC publication, then who cares what he says to his flock? They probably all think the same anyway. However, if it was a public forum, like Newsweek, or some other magazine or TV program, then that’s different.There are many people who might read something like this and believe that this guy knows whereof he speaks, and then be led astray. I would worry more about gullible people who don’t know much about the Catholic Church being influenced by someone in this kind of a statement.
Thanks be to God that He is guiding and protecting His Church. BTW, isn’t it funny that all these people seem to be concerned that if the Church doesn’t get with the modern program, it’ll die out? We’ve been aroung for the past 2000 years! Why would we die out now?
Peace,
Linda
Thanks be to God that He is guiding and protecting His Church. BTW, isn’t it funny that all these people seem to be concerned that if the Church doesn’t get with the modern program, it’ll die out? We’ve been aroung for the past 2000 years! Why would we die out now?
Peace,
Linda
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