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VWcrazy
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I first saw that SpongeBob photo a few days ago and I’m still laughing over it!
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Windmill
Guest
Looking at it from his perspective, the CDF document, Dominus Iesus, WAS a little blunt in calling other “churches” gravely deficient. Even though it is true, I would say that it does put a damper on ecumenical diaolog when you pull out facts like that.
On the other hand, I have no idea how you could present something so damning in a “sugar-coated” way. So, le the pope be faithful and let the crowds respond how they choose.
Benedict XVI knows he’s accountable to God, not the president of the UCC. I, for one, applaud his candor in fighting relativism.
On the other hand, I have no idea how you could present something so damning in a “sugar-coated” way. So, le the pope be faithful and let the crowds respond how they choose.
Benedict XVI knows he’s accountable to God, not the president of the UCC. I, for one, applaud his candor in fighting relativism.
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Catherine_S
Guest
Here is a taste of his literary talent :whacky: !! As a Catholic, I would not give this man the time of day. Well maybe if I were carryng a salt gun
and he was walking away 
!! This is an ignorant and disrespectful man! Capable of doing harm to Christ’s little ones :tsktsk: !Shalom
**A Woman Rides the Beast: Roman Catholic Church and the Last Days
******Dave Hunt
For those too young to know…the salt gun shot salt pellets at boys who climbed** the farmers apple trees to swipe a few apples.** They usually** got you on your way over the fence**
Thou shall not steal…was learned** real** quick and made it difficult to sit still for several weeks !!!
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Lisa_N
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They are DEFINITELY recruiting homosexuals. Recall the ad where they inferred a chuch (I suspect the meant Catholic) first turned away a non-white couple, some people who looked poor and of course the REAL message two homosexuals who were pawing each other in case we didn’t get it.
The local UCC has a woman minister and has hemorrhaged out most of the members. They just put up a banner welcoming people of ‘all sexual orientation.’ Maybe they’ll fill the empty pews. I know some really nice folks from that church but I don’t get the appeal at all.
Lisa N
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Catherine_S
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I think they are doing a good job of putting a damper on it themselves… the Dave Hunt types have been given the facts sugar coated for too long**…they just become more enboldened…**the truth has to be told with certitude and clarity…**Pope Benedict will surprise us all…I believe he will anyway ! Heresy is still heresy !! **
Reviews of Dave Hunt’s Book :
1. As with many of his other books, Dave Hunt has managed to translate confusing Bible prophecy into everyday language that all can understand. This book deals with Revelation chapter 17 and the Woman (Roman-Catholic church) riding the Beast (Antichrist). While at first glance, this may seem like a stretch, one need only to read the first few chapters to see the absolute truth of this conclusion. Hunt backs up everything he writes with Scripture references and famous historians, even many Catholic church historians as well. This is a fantastic book and the information found in it is invaluable. A must read for any Christian or Catholic. While most Catholics may be offended at what this book proves, anyone reading it with an open mind will be astounded at the deception that is taking place in this world. If I could give it 50 stars, I would.
2. “A Woman Rides The Beast” is the truth about the Roman Catholic Church laid bare, and calls to attention both the dangers of ecunemism and the inevitability of a New World Order controlled by Rome, as prophesied in the Bible in Revelation 17-18. Dave Hunt is a brilliant historian and theologian, and he goes through Roman Catholicism’s blood-stained history as well as picking apart their laughable doctrines, such as Purgatory and Mass.** This book is essential for Evangelicals** **who tend to compromise **with Catholics, and also for Roman Catholics who are genuinely seeking the truth and want to know the real truth about their organization. **This is a very meaty book, but extremely rewarding. **
amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos…9074008-9849457
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Catherine_S
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Lisa N:
They use people who are needy for acceptance or who have a bone to pick !
My two :twocents: worth anyway !
Shalom
Perhaps the appeal for them is numbers…numbers translate into dollars !
They use people who are needy for acceptance or who have a bone to pick !
My two :twocents: worth anyway !
Shalom
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Gottle_of_Geer
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Lumen Gentium:
That could work both ways
If a Catholic were in danger of drowning, and only a Protestant were near, would the Catholic prefer to drown rather than to be helped by someone who had the wrong religion and theology ?
So with us - we are all in the same state, no matter what our churchmanship: we all need help from Christ - and if He moves Protestants to wish us well and to pray for us & the Pope, well, why not accept ? It’s not as though we dwelt in splendid isolation from all other Christians. ##
This chap is praying though
OK. I can look at it from a charitable perspective.Thanks.
I still don’t get it why he has to make comments or state something like that. He should have thought first if such
kind of statement, coming from him, would make an impact on the enormous faithful flock of Benedict XVI. What credibility does he have to say something that does not concern his flock?
That could work both ways - I would have thought that for Christians of differenr bodies to pray for each other’s concerns, is exactly what Christians should do.
If a Catholic were in danger of drowning, and only a Protestant were near, would the Catholic prefer to drown rather than to be helped by someone who had the wrong religion and theology ?So with us - we are all in the same state, no matter what our churchmanship: we all need help from Christ - and if He moves Protestants to wish us well and to pray for us & the Pope, well, why not accept ? It’s not as though we dwelt in splendid isolation from all other Christians. ##
This chap is praying though
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Exactly!
I am getting so tired of non-Catholics telling the Catholic Church what it should and shouldn’t do. The Maureen Dowd syndrome.
The Catholic Churhc has zero, zilch, NO obligation to either seek or heed the advice of non-Catholics about anything–least of all about choosing its leaders.
Some advice to the UCC advice-givers and their ilk: If you want the right to shoot your mouth off about what the Catholic Church should do, then become a Catholic. As long as you remain outside the Church’s visible bounds, your views on what the Church should or shouldn’t do have about as much weight as a pair of microfiber skivvies.
ZT
Except that this is no longer the CC’s own view - certainly not in ecumenism. Various recent Roman documents encourage sharing of resources wherever possible, provided that no false idea of the Church’s own character is given.
THE ROMAN CURIAIn exercising supreme, full, and immediate power in the universal Church, the Roman pontiff makes use of the departments of the Roman Curia which, therefore, perform their duties in his name and with his authority for the good of the churches and in the service of the sacred pastors.
CHRISTUS DOMINUS, 9
**
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/general-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19930325_directory_en.html
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Lumen_Gentium
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Yup, I do understand what you mean. As Christians that’s what we ought to do - pray for each other.
Now, suppose a neighbor comes in front of your house and shouts to the whole neighborhood saying that the father you, more than anybody else, have known and loved all your life is not fitted to be your father because he is this and this and that you should be that and that. Would you feel like you are drowning and would have this neighbor save your life? Or would you rather tell your neighbor to shut up because he’s annoying the whole neighborhood?
Sorry, though, for a lousy analogy.
PAX
Now, suppose a neighbor comes in front of your house and shouts to the whole neighborhood saying that the father you, more than anybody else, have known and loved all your life is not fitted to be your father because he is this and this and that you should be that and that. Would you feel like you are drowning and would have this neighbor save your life? Or would you rather tell your neighbor to shut up because he’s annoying the whole neighborhood?
Sorry, though, for a lousy analogy.
PAX
Gottle of Geer said:## That could work both ways
If a Catholic were in danger of drowning, and only a Protestant were near, would the Catholic prefer to drown rather than to be helped by someone who had the wrong religion and theology ?
So with us - we are all in the same state, no matter what our churchmanship: we all need help from Christ - and if He moves Protestants to wish us well and to pray for us & the Pope, well, why not accept ? It’s not as though we dwelt in splendid isolation from all other Christians. ##
This chap is praying though
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misericordie
Guest
Who cares what a CULT thinks?
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Catherine_S
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Catherine_S
Guest
Martin Luther determined that there is no purgatory (good-bye Maccabees!) and that works play no role in salvation. John Calvin determined that God creates most men precisely to send them to hell. Charles Taze Russell determined that there is no hell and that you’ll go there if you don’t worship at Kingdom Hall. Joseph Smith determined that any man can become a god and can populate his own universe. Mary Baker Eddy determined that death is a figment of the imagination**, and then she died. Ellen Gould White** determined that the Mother Church is really** the Whore of Babylon. **Exactly!
I am getting so tired of non-Catholics telling the Catholic Church what it should and shouldn’t do. The Maureen Dowd syndrome.
The Catholic Churhc has zero, zilch, NO obligation to either seek or heed the advice of non-Catholics about anything–least of all about choosing its leaders.
Some advice to the UCC advice-givers and their ilk: If you want the right to shoot your mouth off about what the Catholic Church should do, then become a Catholic. As long as you remain outside the Church’s visible bounds, your views on what the Church should or shouldn’t do have about as much weight as a pair of microfiber skivvies.
ZT
What business did these people have in determining Christian doctrine? None, of course. Not a single one was competent to do so, as they so amply demonstrated. With one or two exceptions, each was a sincere believer, sincerely believing some things that just weren’t so.** Luther and Calvin, at least, were fairly well educated,** yet they were unable to determine doctrine accurately, having, like the rest of us, **reasoning faculties that were impaired at the Fall. **
No one, no matter how bright, no matter how sincere, can expect to determine doctrine accurately on his own. Sure, anyone can get one or two things right, by dumb luck if nothing else. But to get the whole corpus of religious truth right?** No one has done it—on his own**. Only the magisterium of the Church—the bishops teaching in union with the pope—has been able to do it, but not because we’ve been blessed with bright bishops and popes. (Some bishops and popes have been dim bulbs indeed.) The men who, in their ordained lives, make up the magisterium are able to teach rightly not because of any native skills they have, but because the Holy Spirit prevents them from making a botch of it. When a pope speaks ex cathedra, or when the pope and bishops convene in an ecumenical council, what we get is teaching guaranteed to be correct because the deliberations are protected by the Holy Spirit.
We call this infallibility. It is a charism that doesn’t belong to a bishop teaching on his own, to a pope teaching other than ex cathedra, to any priest, religious, or layman in the Catholic Church, and definitely not to anyone outside the Catholic Church, including folks establishing home churches.
catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9707up.asp
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Catherine_S
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Martin Luther determined that there is no purgatory (good-bye Maccabees!) and that works play no role in salvation. John Calvin determined that God creates most men precisely to send them to hell. Charles Taze Russell determined that there is no hell and that you’ll go there if you don’t worship at Kingdom Hall. Joseph Smith determined that any man can become a god and can populate his own universe. Mary Baker Eddy determined that death is a figment of the imagination**, **and then she died. Ellen Gould White determined that the Mother Church is reallythe Whore of Babylon.Exactly!
I am getting so tired of non-Catholics telling the Catholic Church what it should and shouldn’t do. The Maureen Dowd syndrome.
The Catholic Churhc has zero, zilch, NO obligation to either seek or heed the advice of non-Catholics about anything–least of all about choosing its leaders.
Some advice to the UCC advice-givers and their ilk: If you want the right to shoot your mouth off about what the Catholic Church should do, then become a Catholic. As long as you remain outside the Church’s visible bounds, your views on what the Church should or shouldn’t do have about as much weight as a pair of microfiber skivvies.
ZT
What business did these people have in determining Christian doctrine? None, of course. Not a single one was competent to do so, as they so amply demonstrated. With one or two exceptions, each was a sincere believer, sincerely believing some things that just weren’t so.Luther and Calvin, at least, were fairly well educated, yet they were unable to determine doctrine accurately, having, like the rest of us, **reasoning faculties that were impaired at the Fall. **
No one, no matter how bright, no matter how sincere, can expect to determine doctrine accurately on his own. Sure, anyone can get one or two things right, by dumb luck if nothing else. But to get the whole corpus of religious truth right? No one has done it—on his own. Only the magisterium of the Church—the bishops teaching in union with the pope—has been able to do it, but not because we’ve been blessed with bright bishops and popes. (Some bishops and popes have been dim bulbs indeed.) The men who, in their ordained lives, make up the magisterium are able to teach rightly not because of any native skills they have, but because the Holy Spirit prevents them from making a botch of it. When a pope speaks ex cathedra, or when the pope and bishops convene in an ecumenical council, **what we get is teaching guaranteed to be correct because the deliberations are protected by the Holy Spirit. **
We call this infallibility. It is a charism that doesn’t belong to a bishop teaching on his own, to a pope teaching other than ex cathedra, to any priest, religious, or layman in the Catholic Church, and definitely not to anyone outside the Catholic Church, including folks establishing home churches.
catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9707up.asp
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shannin
Guest
Exactly!
I am getting so tired of non-Catholics telling the Catholic Church what it should and shouldn’t do. The Maureen Dowd syndrome.
The Catholic Churhc has zero, zilch, NO obligation to either seek or heed the advice of non-Catholics about anything–least of all about choosing its leaders.
ZT
Agreed. On one hand, he is praying for the RCC but then he goes on to say that he is profoundly disappointed and that the Holy Father is rigid, conservative, confrontational, and lacks a warm pastoral heart. He could have just that he was praying for the Pope.What does he care anyway? I’m sick and tired of non-Catholics sticking their noses in when it’s none of their business what goes on in the Church.
I don’t know why statements like his bother me so much. I wish I could just sluff them off and pray for these people to see the light. What is it about the RCC that causes people to constantly criticize???
Shannin
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steve_b
Guest
Detractors said the same things about JPII. Now they’re gonna call him THE GREAT!!! Maybe even Saint!! Cardinal Ratzinger was named by JPII. All theological documents that came from the Vatican during JPII’s pontificate, and that were approved by JPII had to go accross Cardinal Ratzinger’s desk. Now he’s pope Benedict XVI. Yeah, the HS is full of surprises.:bowdown2:But not for faithful Catholics.
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Ignatius
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Gottle of Geer said:
Anyone have the history of the UCC? Is this the same as the one founded in 1906 after breaking away from the Cambellites?
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oat_soda
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flameburns623
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NO!!!
The bulk of the UCC comes from the old Congregationalist Christian denomination of Pilgrim fame. In 1957 they merged with the Evangelical and Reformed Church, which itself was a merger of the Reformed Church and the Evangelical Synod. The Reformed segment was more Baptist/Presbyterian, the Evangelical Synod was a Lutheran splinter. The E & R denomination had some sort of tenuous link to Thomas and Alexander Campbell from 'way back in the 1700’s, but it is not a strong part of their heritage.
What you are thinking of would be the Churches of Christ, a fundamentalist, non-intrumental denomination which split from the Disciples of Christ and Christian Church denomination over the rise of modernist tendencies. The Independent Christian Churches and Churches of Christ split from the Disciples of Christ after WWII over the same issue. The Disciples of Christ and the UCC have been in dialogue in the past about a possible merger–the Disciples have continued to drift ever leftward and some congregations are indistinguishable from UCC congregations, but these denominations are NOT presently unified. The Independents are pretty much mainstream Evangelicals–I was born into and baptised into this segment (they practice believer’s baptism after one reaches the age of discretion).
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otm
Guest
I went back and read the first post. I don’t see an attack. He is a liberal, and his characterization of Cardinal Ratzinger is completely understandable from the position of a liberal - and not necessarily a flaming liberal.
He isn’t Catholic, and I fail to see that one should hold him to a Catholic standard. Many, if not most Protestants are generally unfamiliar with the Catholic Church, and their comments are generated from both a lack of understanding, and the ususal mish-mash that they were taught by whomever, said teacher most often lacking understanding as well. I don’t see him as hateful but do see him as seeing the Catholic Church through Protestant liberal eyes - e.g. why can’t the Chrurch change these doctrines?
Ignorance is not a sign of hatred. He is entitled to his opinion, and I take it as just that; an opinion, largely ill informed at its base. I take no offense; if anything, I find it amusing that people can be so dense. But then, I meet dense people every day; most of them of good heart and character, although misguided. But upset? Angry? Hurt? Abused? Mistreated?
No, I don’t feel any of those.
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otm
Guest
I find it somewhat humorous idea that it is nobody’s business but Catholics as to who we elect Pope.
To the extent that we are the ones electing him (through the Cardinal Electors), that is true. But it is most certainly everyone’s business, to the extent that the office of the papacy impacts the whole world. It impacts Catholics, other Christian denominations, the Islamists, the Hindus, major (and sometimes minor) countries and their governments, and on and on.
Has no one been paying attention the last 27 1/2 years? Do you all think that the Pope operates in a vacuum, or only within the legal and physical (and spiritual) realm of the Catholic Church? John Paul 2 obviously didn’t think so, and he acted accordingly on issues such as birth control (where he was arm in arm with the Islamic countries in trying to defeat action through the U.N.) and AIDS.
I would say that to the extent that anyone is touched by the Pope, through his leadership, his speeches, his encyclicals, and any other means he uses to communicate, it is their business because they are being impacted.
They may have some very wrong ideas of how to solve problems; or they may be correct in how they would approach the issues. And who the Pope is can impact that very strongly.
I have heard the comment made to non Catholics who were upset about the choice that it was none of their business. I disagree with that answer; I think we can do much better. It is always an opportunity to evangelize; and for those of you who are offended, you might try evangelizing in charity instead of getting offended. Otherwise, you are missing the opportunity God is giving you.
To the extent that we are the ones electing him (through the Cardinal Electors), that is true. But it is most certainly everyone’s business, to the extent that the office of the papacy impacts the whole world. It impacts Catholics, other Christian denominations, the Islamists, the Hindus, major (and sometimes minor) countries and their governments, and on and on.
Has no one been paying attention the last 27 1/2 years? Do you all think that the Pope operates in a vacuum, or only within the legal and physical (and spiritual) realm of the Catholic Church? John Paul 2 obviously didn’t think so, and he acted accordingly on issues such as birth control (where he was arm in arm with the Islamic countries in trying to defeat action through the U.N.) and AIDS.
I would say that to the extent that anyone is touched by the Pope, through his leadership, his speeches, his encyclicals, and any other means he uses to communicate, it is their business because they are being impacted.
They may have some very wrong ideas of how to solve problems; or they may be correct in how they would approach the issues. And who the Pope is can impact that very strongly.
I have heard the comment made to non Catholics who were upset about the choice that it was none of their business. I disagree with that answer; I think we can do much better. It is always an opportunity to evangelize; and for those of you who are offended, you might try evangelizing in charity instead of getting offended. Otherwise, you are missing the opportunity God is giving you.
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