Ue & sspx

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valoriuslobo

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  1. The faithful who ask for the celebration of the forma extraordinaria
    must not in any way support or belong to groups which show themselves to be
    against the validity or legitimacy of the Holy Mass or the Sacraments celebrated
    in the forma ordinaria or against the Roman Pontiff as Supreme Pastor of
    the Universal Church.
This is from Universae Ecclesiae (sp?) and I think it quite speaks to the adherents to and supporters of the SSPX amongst other “irregular” groups. As a self described traditionalist, I’ve known people who attended SSPX Chapels but as someone in union with Rome, I was always distressed by it. I think its good the Holy See is firm about this full communion issue, as I see it.

What do y’all think about this?

Disclaimer: no judgement meant in my preceding statement.
 
I was under the impression that talks had broken down this past winter with the Holy See and SSPX. I am not sure whether or not that as RC’s you should attend a SSPX service. I am leaning toward not. I will anxiously await other (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
The PCED has the final authoritative interpretation as to who is encompassed by paragraph 19, not posters on an internet forum. Thus we cannot rashly assume the SSPX is contemplated by this paragraph. Patience and prudence is called for.

The Society of St. Pius X has always recognized the validity of the Novus Ordo sacraments

The Society of St. Pius X is not “against the Roman Pontiff as Supreme Pastor of the Universal Church”. They recognize BXVI as Pope despite their disagreements over particular issues. Just because their society is currently canonically irregular does not mean they are “against the Pope”. In fact they are more “for” the Pope than many bishops & priests in “full communion”.

The Society believes the NOM is “legitimate” in the sense that it is a Mass approved of by the Pope, despite the fact they have severe criticisms of it.
 
GRATEFULONEjim said:
I was under the impression that talks had broken down this past winter with the Holy See and SSPX. I am not sure whether or not that as RC’s you should attend a SSPX service. I am leaning toward not. I will anxiously await other (name removed by moderator)ut.
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But it’s perfectly fine to attend services like those at the LA Religious Education Congress, with dancing deacons. clapping priests, incense bowls swaying all over the WORSHIP SPACE, as they called it, altar girls, and music designed for a folk festival. It’s all perfectly valid and shouldn’t be questioned.

“19. The faithful who ask for the celebration of the forma extraordinaria must not in any way support or belong to groups which show themselves to be against the validity or legitimacy of the Holy Mass or the Sacraments celebrated in the forma ordinaria or against the Roman Pontiff as Supreme Pastor of the Universal Church.”

But NOT vice versa!! Can the faithful who celebrate the forma ordinaria, show opposition to the forma extraordinaria. My guess is that they can, since this document does not explicitly address this issue. Only those faithful, who desire the forma extraordinaria.
 
valoriuslobo said:
  1. The faithful who ask for the celebration of the forma extraordinaria
    must not in any way support or belong to groups which show themselves to be
    against the validity or legitimacy of the Holy Mass or the Sacraments celebrated
    in the forma ordinaria or against the Roman Pontiff as Supreme Pastor of
    the Universal Church.
This is from Universae Ecclesiae (sp?) and I think it quite speaks to the adherents to and supporters of the SSPX amongst other “irregular” groups. As a self described traditionalist, I’ve known people who attended SSPX Chapels but as someone in union with Rome, I was always distressed by it. I think its good the Holy See is firm about this full communion issue, as I see it.

What do y’all think about this?

Disclaimer: no judgement meant in my preceding statement.
Click to expand...
I am extremely gladdened by it. I always say why do we bother with groups who question Rome’s authority and teaching when we have perfectly good traditional groups like the FSSP who does a very, very fine job 👍
 
bkovacs said:
But it’s perfectly fine to attend services like those at the LA Religious Education Congress, with dancing deacons. clapping priests, incense bowls swaying all over the WORSHIP SPACE, as they called it, altar girls, and music designed for a folk festival. It’s all perfectly valid and shouldn’t be questioned.

“19. The faithful who ask for the celebration of the forma extraordinaria must not in any way support or belong to groups which show themselves to be against the validity or legitimacy of the Holy Mass or the Sacraments celebrated in the forma ordinaria or against the Roman Pontiff as Supreme Pastor of the Universal Church.”

But NOT vice versa!! Can the faithful who celebrate the forma ordinaria, show opposition to the forma extraordinaria. My guess is that they can, since this document does not explicitly address this issue. Only those faithful, who desire the forma extraordinaria.
Click to expand...
Most people who attend the OF aren’t even aware the EF still exists so they can’t really oppose it.
 
And one more thing. Have any parishes even educated their faithful, I’m talking during a sermon, when most are present. About the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite. Maybe have a “qualified” priest offer up a Mass, as a way to show them, the other form. Have most mainstream Churches done this?. Would this not constitute an opposition by those , including the clergy, who outright oppose the forma extraordinaria. Even if a “qualified” priest is unavailable are they being taught!. Should this not be addressed in a Papal Document. Just something to think about.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Most people who attend the OF aren’t even aware the EF still exists so they can’t really oppose it.
Click to expand...
Now there is a huge problem right there!. Most faithful don’t even know!. Hence why most Bishops will give the excuse that pastorally it is not needed.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I am extremely gladdened by it. I always say why do we bother with groups who question Rome’s authority and teaching when we have perfectly good traditional groups like the FSSP who does a very, very fine job 👍
Click to expand...
Because logistics!. Maybe a SSPX chapel is near to their home, and an FSSP parish is not. So for those who wish to celebrate forma extraordiaria, this is their only option.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Actually, the Pope is.
Click to expand...
Yep, you’re right.

As to that other poster’s remark, I was offering merely view point. As an opinion, regardless of it being correct or not, its worthless by virtue of being an opinion. I never claimed fact. I never made this statement from authority. I have no power in the Church and never claimed so. That being said, I’d hope we as forum members could post without being snide. 🤷
 
But in the end why should I even care since I attend a Greek Catholic Church anyway.
 
Just to mention one more thing. The USCCB website doesn’t even mention this document, that was released today, not even in their news section. So I hope you will see what I am on to here. If this document is addressed to ALL Roman Rite Catholics. Why don’t they even mention it. It should be in big bold letters on the front page.
But like I said before. Why should I even care anyway since I attend a Greek Catholic Church now.
 
bkovacs said:
Now there is a huge problem right there!. Most faithful don’t even know!. Hence why most Bishops will give the excuse that pastorally it is not needed.
Click to expand...
Not really. In our Archdiocese the Bishop is extremely supportive of the EF. Those who seek it know where to find it. Those who doesn’t can remain oblivious to it. As a now-Eastern Catholic, I know what it is to be virtually invisible. I never knew where the Eastern parishes where until I sought them out. Its not that the Bishops are trying to hide them. We have to accept that for most Roman Catholics, they are perfectly happy where they are.
 
bkovacs said:
Because logistics!. Maybe a SSPX chapel is near to their home, and an FSSP parish is not. So for those who wish to celebrate forma extraordiaria, this is their only option.
Click to expand...
But my question always in this scenario is, why is the SSPX acceptable, but for me who “prefers” the Eastern Rites cannot fulfill my Sunday Obligation in an Orthodox Liturgy? Like the SSPX, they have valid priests, valid Sacraments, etc.
 
ConstantineTG said:
But my question always in this scenario is, why is the SSPX acceptable, but for me who “prefers” the Eastern Rites cannot fulfill my Sunday Obligation in an Orthodox Liturgy? Like the SSPX, they have valid priests, valid Sacraments, etc.
Click to expand...
Well first of all, the Orthodox Churches will not allow you to receive communion. So you really couldn’t fulfill you obligation that way. My question is why are the Orthodox Churches not open to Catholics receiving communion. I can understand protestants, not being able to receive communion.
 
bkovacs said:
Well first of all, the Orthodox Churches will not allow you to receive communion. So you really couldn’t fulfill you obligation that way. My question is why are the Orthodox Churches not open to Catholics receiving communion. I can understand protestants, not being able to receive communion.
Click to expand...
You don’t need to receive Communion to fulfill your Sunday Obligation.
 
valoriuslobo said:
  1. The faithful who ask for the celebration of the forma extraordinaria
    must not in any way support or belong to groups which show themselves to be
    against the validity or legitimacy of the Holy Mass or the Sacraments celebrated
    in the forma ordinaria or against the Roman Pontiff as Supreme Pastor of
    the Universal Church.
This is from Universae Ecclesiae (sp?) and I think it quite speaks to the adherents to and supporters of the SSPX amongst other “irregular” groups. As a self described traditionalist, I’ve known people who attended SSPX Chapels but as someone in union with Rome, I was always distressed by it. I think its good the Holy See is firm about this full communion issue, as I see it.

What do y’all think about this?

Disclaimer: no judgement meant in my preceding statement.
Click to expand...
I told a friar of the OF parish I’m registered at that I’ve assisted a SSPX Mass a few times. He asked how many members they have there, and if I was able to follow the Mass in Latin. I told him how many I guessed were in the pews and then said " after a few, I followed along fine with my missal, but I’d much rather follow the Dominican Rite in Latin".

Never heard a priest laugh so loud. He’s a Dominican, and we got along well after that.
They transferred him before I got the nerve to press the issue 😦
 
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