UGCC in the Philippines

[ConstantineTG]

I doubt that the mission is under the aegis of the UGCC. It would have to be under the aegis of the local Latin bishop to have any canonical validity.

Blessings,
Marduk

No, they are not. They don’t have clergy anyway so they don’t have to be under any local bishop. That question will come up with they have built up enough people to actually form a small mission parish. But not right now, they are just figuring out how to start Reader services.

 

[mardukm]

No, they are not. They don’t have clergy anyway so they don’t have to be under any local bishop. That question will come up with they have built up enough people to actually form a small mission parish. But not right now, they are just figuring out how to start Reader services.

Please explain how any Liturgy can have any validity without the approval of a bishop. The UGCC does not have jurisdiction in the Philippines. Therefore, the existence of this Eastern Rite must be there under the aegis of the local Latin bishop. I pray it grows.

Actually, I’m puzzled that the Oriental Rites don’t have more expression here. There is a LOT of Filipino contact with the Middle East and India (I’ve actually met 2 Maronite families, and 1 Syro-Malabar Catholic here). I would like to look into doing this here in the Philippines. Please pray God gives me the strength, time, and will to do this.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[ConstantineTG]

Please explain how any Liturgy can have any validity without the approval of a bishop. The UGCC does not have jurisdiction in the Philippines. Therefore, the existence of this Eastern Rite must be there under the aegis of the local Latin bishop. I pray it grows.

It is not as far as I know. Given they are not canonically UGCC and they are just doing Reader services, they are free to do this without having permission from a bishop. I don’t know what validity you are after from a Reader’s service.

Actually, I’m puzzled that the Oriental Rites don’t have more expression here. There is a LOT of Filipino contact with the Middle East and India (I’ve actually met 2 Maronite families, and 1 Syro-Malabar Catholic here). I would like to look into doing this here in the Philippines. Please pray God gives me the strength, time, and will to do this.

Blessings,
Marduk

There is a biritual Syro-Malabar priest but he is only permitted by the Latin bishop to do a Holy Qurbana twice a year.

 

[Aramis]

It is not as far as I know. Given they are not canonically UGCC and they are just doing Reader services, they are free to do this without having permission from a bishop. I don’t know what validity you are after from a Reader’s service.

There is a biritual Syro-Malabar priest but he is only permitted by the Latin bishop to do a Holy Qurbana twice a year.

Public reader services are supposed to be done only with the bishop’s blessing.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Public reader services are supposed to be done only with the bishop’s blessing.

Back to the original question then, which bishop?

 

[Aramis]

Back to the original question then, which bishop?

Until the mission is formally established, the local Ordinary’s… which would be the Roman.

Given the number of Orthodox is climbing, the local ordinary should be willing to invite a mission… if presented with a group of faithful attached to it.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Until the mission is formally established, the local Ordinary’s… which would be the Roman.

Given the number of Orthodox is climbing, the local ordinary should be willing to invite a mission… if presented with a group of faithful attached to it.

Er… should I really comment on the Orthodox situation there? Not really as rosy as you would think. Besides, is that a reason to set up an Eastern Catholic mission? To combat the growing Orthodox presence?

I’d love for an Eastern Catholic mission to grow there, but more to combat the rapid advances by Evangelical and Pentecostal groups. For those who feel they aren’t as nourished in the Western praxis would have an option of a different praxis within the Church. But to use the EC to combat Orthodoxy? It’s just uniatism.

 

[choliks]

Er… should I really comment on the Orthodox situation there? Not really as rosy as you would think. Besides, is that a reason to set up an Eastern Catholic mission? To combat the growing Orthodox presence?

I’d love for an Eastern Catholic mission to grow there, but more to combat the rapid advances by Evangelical and Pentecostal groups. For those who feel they aren’t as nourished in the Western praxis would have an option of a different praxis within the Church. But to use the EC to combat Orthodoxy? It’s just uniatism.

The Filipino Christian’s mind is hard to discern right now. As more and more people get seduced by westernization, the more they bite into individualism. This makes the Evangelical and Pentecostal groups more palatable for them.

I was facilitating in a weekend recollection for a group of college students in a Catholic school, and one of them stated that she’s not Catholic anymore. The reason she gave: the Mass was so boring. It didn’t suit her taste. She was not looking for a spiritual nourishment. She was looking for entertainment. So I don’t know how the Eastern praxis will affect them.

 

[Crescentinus]

The Filipino Christian’s mind is hard to discern right now. As more and more people get seduced by westernization, the more they bite into individualism. This makes the Evangelical and Pentecostal groups more palatable for them.

I was facilitating in a weekend recollection for a group of college students in a Catholic school, and one of them stated that she’s not Catholic anymore. The reason she gave: the Mass was so boring. It didn’t suit her taste. She was not looking for a spiritual nourishment. She was looking for entertainment. So I don’t know how the Eastern praxis will affect them.

Maybe doing it a la Saint John Bosco can help things.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The Filipino Christian’s mind is hard to discern right now. As more and more people get seduced by westernization, the more they bite into individualism. This makes the Evangelical and Pentecostal groups more palatable for them.

I was facilitating in a weekend recollection for a group of college students in a Catholic school, and one of them stated that she’s not Catholic anymore. The reason she gave: the Mass was so boring. It didn’t suit her taste. She was not looking for a spiritual nourishment. She was looking for entertainment. So I don’t know how the Eastern praxis will affect them.

No, I think she is looking for spiritual nourishment. She didn’t get it in the Catholic Church and now she’s looking elsewhere. She won’t find it in an Evangelical congregation, but at this point she’s searching.

Let us not think that the Mass or any other form of Liturgy would just instantly fulfill the spiritual needs of people. The whole experience of being in Church and living a way of life isn’t just about the Liturgy. It’s a big part of it, but not the only part. And still we can fail with the Liturgy by not coming up with good Homilies which is an expounding on the Word of God, which is pretty important too. Evangelicals are pretty good with the fellowship aspect which lacks in many Liturgical Churches today, both Catholic and Orthodox.

Anyway, we’re going off track a bit. But basically life in Christ is a life. And in what we know about life, there must be a balance. Liturgy is very, very important, but it is not the only thing and thus there must be a balance with everything else.

 

[choliks]

No, I think she is looking for spiritual nourishment. She didn’t get it in the Catholic Church and now she’s looking elsewhere. She won’t find it in an Evangelical congregation, but at this point she’s searching.

Let us not think that the Mass or any other form of Liturgy would just instantly fulfill the spiritual needs of people. The whole experience of being in Church and living a way of life isn’t just about the Liturgy. It’s a big part of it, but not the only part. And still we can fail with the Liturgy by not coming up with good Homilies which is an expounding on the Word of God, which is pretty important too. Evangelicals are pretty good with the fellowship aspect which lacks in many Liturgical Churches today, both Catholic and Orthodox.

Anyway, we’re going off track a bit. But basically life in Christ is a life. And in what we know about life, there must be a balance. Liturgy is very, very important, but it is not the only thing and thus there must be a balance with everything else.

I agree, CTG. But if one is not looking for a liturgical life, how can one flourish in any of the Liturgical Churches, East or West?

 

[Aramis]

Er… should I really comment on the Orthodox situation there? Not really as rosy as you would think. Besides, is that a reason to set up an Eastern Catholic mission? To combat the growing Orthodox presence?

I’d love for an Eastern Catholic mission to grow there, but more to combat the rapid advances by Evangelical and Pentecostal groups. For those who feel they aren’t as nourished in the Western praxis would have an option of a different praxis within the Church. But to use the EC to combat Orthodoxy? It’s just uniatism.

I’m aware that the two genuinely orthodox parishes are growing. I’m also aware that there are at least three so-called “independent orthodox” churches making drastic inroads with eastern liturgies, questionable apostolic lineage, and dubious if not openly heretical theology.

An eastern mission might not stem the tide fully, but for those switching in ignorance of the theological dangers, but going for the beauty of the liturgy, such a mission would at least be a refuge. And for those who come to realize there errors, a landing zone within the church.

And it would also be a clear sign of the unity and diversity the church holds. I know several Filipinos who have become Byzantified in the US - including Melkite, Ruthenian and Ukrainian - who have since returned. At least one of them is, in fact, now canonically Ruthenian.

 

[Crescentinus]

And it would also be a clear sign of the unity and diversity the church holds. I know several Filipinos who have become Byzantified in the US - including Melkite, Ruthenian and Ukrainian - who have since returned. At least one of them is, in fact, now canonically Ruthenian.

I blame the liturgical spoon!

 

[bre]

Glory be to The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be
World without end
Amen

 

[mardukm]

It is not as far as I know. Given they are not canonically UGCC and they are just doing Reader services, they are free to do this without having permission from a bishop. I don’t know what validity you are after from a Reader’s service.

Your OP said it was a Divine Liturgy. What DL can be done without the approval of a bishop?

There is a biritual Syro-Malabar priest but he is only permitted by the Latin bishop to do a Holy Qurbana twice a year.

Which diocese?

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[mardukm]

Er… should I really comment on the Orthodox situation there? Not really as rosy as you would think. Besides, is that a reason to set up an Eastern Catholic mission? To combat the growing Orthodox presence?

I’d love for an Eastern Catholic mission to grow there, but more to combat the rapid advances by Evangelical and Pentecostal groups. For those who feel they aren’t as nourished in the Western praxis would have an option of a different praxis within the Church. But to use the EC to combat Orthodoxy? It’s just uniatism.

I thought brother Aramis just meant that there is an obvious and growing interest in non-Latin Traditions. Catholics in the Philippines should know that there are other spiritualities/Traditions WITHIN the Catholic Church, and don’t have to leave the Catholic Church to have it.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[ConstantineTG]

Your OP said it was a Divine Liturgy. What DL can be done without the approval of a bishop?

Which diocese?

Blessings,
Marduk

Again, I am talking about the mission, not the DL which was done in the context of the visit. And of course that one had the approval of both bishops.