UGCC Primate

[Matthew_Holford]

Is the primate of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church a patriarch or a major archbishop? I mean no offence to those Ukrainian Greek Catholics who want a patriarch. I would like to know the actual status of this Church’s primate.

If the UGCC is a major archiepiscopate (have I spelt that correctly?), can the holy synod of the UGCC elevate its status to a patriarchate; I assume that would require the assent of the Bishop of Rome. OR Does the Bishop of Rome have to elevate the status of the primacy of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Is the primate of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church a patriarch or a major archbishop? I mean no offence to those Ukrainian Greek Catholics who want a patriarch. I would like to know the actual status of this Church’s primate.

If the UGCC is a major archiepiscopate (have I spelt that correctly?), can the holy synod of the UGCC elevate its status to a patriarchate; I assume that would require the assent of the Bishop of Rome. OR Does the Bishop of Rome have to elevate the status of the primacy of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church?

Sometimes its all perception. Everyone within the UGCC veiws HB Sviatoslav as the Patriarch, and he is commemorated as such in the Divine Liturgy. Of course from Rome’s point of view, he’s a Major Archbishop.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Sometimes its all perception. Everyone within the UGCC veiws HB Sviatoslav as the Patriarch, and he is commemorated as such in the Divine Liturgy. Of course from Rome’s point of view, he’s a Major Archbishop.

Why does this situation exist?

 

[mardukm]

Is the primate of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church a patriarch or a major archbishop? I mean no offence to those Ukrainian Greek Catholics who want a patriarch. I would like to know the actual status of this Church’s primate.

If the UGCC is a major archiepiscopate (have I spelt that correctly?), can the holy synod of the UGCC elevate its status to a patriarchate; I assume that would require the assent of the Bishop of Rome. OR Does the Bishop of Rome have to elevate the status of the primacy of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church?

UGCC can do what it wants. Internally, they can address and regard their primate as a Patriarch. This has happened several times in the history of the Church.

However, the question is whether others outside the UGCC will accept that designation. For the status of the UGCC to be a Patriarchate in the UNIVERSAL Church, the Supreme authority of the Church (either the Ecumenical Council or the Pope personally - practically, it should be the Pope in Synod) must at least recognize that status.

In the early Church, the Supreme authority of the Ecumenical Council (the universal body of bishops in union with its head bishop) was the only one who could grant Patriarchal status. In the latter part of the first millenium, secular rulers tried to force the EP to grant patriarchal status to their national Church. Even if that occurred, the action would be invalid according to a Canon of the Council of Trullo (which Easterns recognize as authoritative) that states that ecclesiastical actions forced by secular authorities are invalid. In the second millenium, a new standard developed in which Patriarchates could be established by a particular mother Church. These new patriarchates did not really have the same status as one of the original 5 Apostolic Patriarchates. I think the only new Patriarchate to have ever pretended to be equal to one of the original Pentarchy is the MP.

Currently, the UGCC has requested the bishop of Rome to recognize its patriarchal status. I confess, I used to argue that only an Ecumenical Council could do this, since there is no precedent for the Pope to personally do it. Roman Popes have granted patriarchal status to other local Churches in the Middle Ages, but it was not as universal head, but rather on the principle mentioned earlier of mother Churches granting patriarchal status to one of their daughter churches. The problem here is that, sans any evidence that the Pope could as universal head, personally (rather than collegially) grant patriarchal status to a local Church, the UGCC is not a daughter Church of the Church of Rome.

But while investigating a matter regarding the Nestorians a few weeks ago, I discovered that Pope St. Cyril of Alexandria had specifically appealed to Pope St. Celestine to personally correct the pretenses of the primate of Jerusalem from claiming patriarchal status. That is a clear indication that the bishop of Rome was regarded to have the personal prerogative to make a determination on the matter.

So it appears that the UGCC has a patristic basis to ask the Pope to personally make a determination of its patriarchal status. After making my discovery on this matter, I am now more sympathetic to the pleas of my UGCC brethren.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[ConstantineTG]

Why does this situation exist?

A Patriarchate can only be established by an Ecumenical Council. We believe we’re there and have been asking Rome for some time now. Rome doesn’t want to make a move on it yet. There’s that other situation where Russia is using “unity” as a bargaining chip. They don’t want a Patriarchate in Ukraine because it strengthens in the national identity of Ukraine. Politically and ecclesiastically, Russia believes that Ukraine belongs to her.

 

[Vico]

Pope John XXIII made Josyf Slipyj a cardinal 28 March 1960, but is was not made public until later in 1965 when Pope Paul VI announced it (1965). Pope Paul VI established the Major Archbishopric, and Bl. Pope John Paul II (1980) expanded the powers to be almost identical to Patriarch, but denied Patriarch status when asked by Slipyi (in 1982).

 

[Matthew_Holford]

A Patriarchate can only be established by an Ecumenical Council. We believe we’re there and have been asking Rome for some time now. Rome doesn’t want to make a move on it yet. There’s that other situation where Russia is using “unity” as a bargaining chip. They don’t want a Patriarchate in Ukraine because it strengthens in the national identity of Ukraine. Politically and ecclesiastically, Russia believes that Ukraine belongs to her.

Thanks for the info. I know there’s a lot of concern here in Europe that Putin is the president-in-waiting of the Russian Federation and that when he becomes president again he may try to annex the Ukraine by military force.

I don’t understand a part of your post. You said that “a patriarchate can only be established by an Ecumenical Council. We believe we’re there …” I’m not sure what you mean by “… we’re there …”. Which EC has given the UGCC patriarchal status?

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Canon 57 of the Code of Canons of Oriental Churches states that it is for the Supreme Authority of the Church to decide which sees have patriarchal status. Therefore, I do not see how the UGCC can make a unilateral decision on the matter. I suppose then the argument turns on what the expression the “Supreme Authority of the Church” means. Is it the Bishop of Rome acting alone or the Bishop of Rome acting collegially with the College of Bishops and with him as its head? In the latter case does that mean an ecumenical council, a synod or other meeting, or the Bishop of Rome consulting with the bishops by other means?

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Dear sir,

The Pope will ratify or acknowledge a patriarchate, yes. Historically, the Eastern Churches first declared their particular Church to be a patriarchate, and then over time this came to be recognized by the other Churches universally. The UGCC is following this same traditional Eastern ecclesiastical approach in acclaiming its Primate a patriarch.

But this question goes well beyond canonical law. It is tied to ecumenism and Rome’s relations to Moscow and the ROC.

Our first patriarch, the holy Hieroconfessor Joseph Slipyj spent 18 years for loyalty to Rome in Siberia, as we know. His brother bishops died as martyrs there or else were martyred iin Ukraine.

But when he emerged from Siberia and came to Rome, Rome began treating Patriarch Joseph as one big pain in the . . . mitre.

The UGCC is considered widely to be a carry-over of Rome’s failed “uniate” policy toward the East (where parts of EO churches are brought under Roman jurisdiction through proselytising and the like).

The idea of a patriarchate for the largest EC Church (which has more members, i believe, than all the other EC Churches combined) would alienate the ROC and hurt Rome’s ambitions to unite with the ROC. The ROC will NOT unite with Rome where the pope is the head etc. That is just not in the cards and Rome is nowhere near the realization of this naive vision than it was 400 hundred years ago. If Rome were to become Orthodox, then yes - it could occupy the place of primacy much like the EP does today. But that is it.

Vatican II’s Decree on the EC Churches talks explicitly about how patriarchates are to be established on a an as you need basis.

The UGCC believes that it has every right to have its own patriarchate, including Apostolic foundation (via St Andrew which is claimed by Moscow today).

If Rome wishes to treat its friends in the UGCC this way, fine. I fail to see how such ecclesial politics have anything to do with Roman primacy and Catholic canon law etc. Canon law, in such a case, is used to cover up the more banal issues of politics.

The UGCC already operates as a patriarchate and we’ve given up trying to implore Rome to acknowledge our status. When Bl Pope John Paul was in Ukraine, he himself heard the title “Patriarch” used during the liturgical commemorations. He did not walk away or otherwise issue a protest (as did Pope Paul VI, BTW). So, in a sense, silence gave (papal) consent.

If anyone feels that Rome is right in its political dealings or that Rome is right in this matter, period, then this post has nothing to tell them.

Ad Multos Annos to His Beatitude Patriarch Svyatoslav!

Alex

 

[Matthew_Holford]

… I appear to have hit a raw nerve. I am only trying to understand the Eastern Catholic churches. I think I will not visit or post in the Eastern Catholicism forum any more. I will keep the ECCs in my prayers.

 

[Hesychios]

… I appear to have hit a raw nerve. I am only trying to understand the Eastern Catholic churches. I think I will not visit or post in the Eastern Catholicism forum any more. I will keep the ECCs in my prayers.

Do not be dismayed by this. Your perspective is framed by your training, everyone understands this. The questions are honest and (quite frankly) understandable considering what you have been taught.

Passions run high, of course, but that is not really your doing. I think the problem comes in when some people coming in want to say “You are wrong” because of -whatever- but I feel that you are only trying to understand the position and it’s justifications, not really to judge it.

You certainly would not be the first to notice a lack of correspondence between church canons and church tradition.

In such an environment we all have to agree to disagree, or perhaps agree that we must mutually misunderstand, and then (as you suggest) pray for one another.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I went to the Moleben to the Mother of God at the UGCC Shrine of the Holy Family last week. This was lead by the Major Archbishop.

What I find interesting is the cards they handed out afterwards with the picture of the Major Archibishop on one side and the other side lists the dates of his ordinations.

In English it says he is Major Archbishop of Kyiv-Halych and Metropolitian of Kyiv. No where does it say patriarch.

 

[hazcompat]

bible.1two.org/catholic-new-testament/apocalypse/apocalypse-4.php

The four and twenty ancients fell down before him that sitteth on the throne, and adored him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying: Thou art worthy, O Lord our God, to receive glory, and honour, and power: because thou hast created all things; and for thy will they were, and have been created.

O Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner. ( 100 times )

peace

 

[Alexander_Roman]

… I appear to have hit a raw nerve. I am only trying to understand the Eastern Catholic churches. I think I will not visit or post in the Eastern Catholicism forum any more. I will keep the ECCs in my prayers.

Dear Sir,

Please forgive me - it was not my intention to refer anything to you personally!

I was simply trying to explain things from our own perspective, period. We don’t feel good about it - but that is also part of the understanding.

Yes, there are raw nerves but this only means that we take our Church and its communion with Rome seriously.

It is I who should butt out, not you, sir!

Alex

 

[Alexander_Roman]

I went to the Moleben to the Mother of God at the UGCC Shrine of the Holy Family last week. This was lead by the Major Archbishop.

What I find interesting is the cards they handed out afterwards with the picture of the Major Archibishop on one side and the other side lists the dates of his ordinations.

In English it says he is Major Archbishop of Kyiv-Halych and Metropolitian of Kyiv. No where does it say patriarch.

He himself will not use the term “patriarch” either. He wishes Rome to confirm this.

Alex