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Bl_Pope_Pius_IX
Guest
As usual, Michael Voris takes the words RIGHT out of my mouth. God bless him, and God save America.
~ Pius :knight1:
~ Pius :knight1:
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daCatholicGuard
Guest
Hello Derek, et al,
I would call it modernism or liberalism rather than Americanism; however, other than that, I think he is 100% correct in his assessments.
Oremus pro invicem,
Sean C. :knight2:
I would call it modernism or liberalism rather than Americanism; however, other than that, I think he is 100% correct in his assessments.
Oremus pro invicem,
Sean C. :knight2:
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Bl_Pope_Pius_IX
Guest
Though ‘Americanism’ might stem (directly or indirectly) from modernism and liberalism, H.H. Pope Leo XIII seemed to condemn ‘Americanism’ to some extant in the Encyclical “Testem Benevolentiae Nostrae”
I urge you to draw your own conclusions from the aforementioned Encyclical.
~ Pius :knight1:
I urge you to draw your own conclusions from the aforementioned Encyclical.
~ Pius :knight1:
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daCatholicGuard
Guest
Hello BPPIX,
Thanks for the link- this gives the term “Americanism” a bit more clarity.
Oremus pro invicem,
Sean C. :knight2:
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CatholicTrekkie
Guest
He said it all. I went to the “Love and Life” center, and everyday, the first part of it seemed eerily like a Protestant praise and worship session. In fact, it was EXACTLY that! There was nothing but loud music, dancing around like a fool, hand-raising, and “praising our Lord”. But where was there time to just sit there and pray, to have a personal dialogue with our Lord and Savior? Absolutely none.
That’s not to say a praise and worship concert is a bad thing. It isn’t. But why is it the only thing that was happening before the catechesis session and Mass? This is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass we’re talking about. There should be preparation for it, and that doesn’t entail loud praise and worship music.
Also, at the Vigil, I can’t believe the number of people that stood there as the consecration was taking place. Even worse, some people were walking around and talking as it was going on!
It was frankly disrespectful of our Lord!
I think it’s high time for the USCCB to ban any music (at least at Mass) that came from a Protestant group (which is most modern praise and worship), ban hand-holding at Mass (which we shouldn’t even be doing in the first place technically), and mandate receiving the Holy Eucharist (at the very least) exclusively on the tongue and/or on the knees. A dress code might be going a bit too far, but it didn’t seem to be a problem for 99% of the churches in Rome.
It might seem extreme, but it will directly stop most of what he was talking about in the video.
That’s not to say a praise and worship concert is a bad thing. It isn’t. But why is it the only thing that was happening before the catechesis session and Mass? This is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass we’re talking about. There should be preparation for it, and that doesn’t entail loud praise and worship music.
Also, at the Vigil, I can’t believe the number of people that stood there as the consecration was taking place. Even worse, some people were walking around and talking as it was going on!
It was frankly disrespectful of our Lord!I think it’s high time for the USCCB to ban any music (at least at Mass) that came from a Protestant group (which is most modern praise and worship), ban hand-holding at Mass (which we shouldn’t even be doing in the first place technically), and mandate receiving the Holy Eucharist (at the very least) exclusively on the tongue and/or on the knees. A dress code might be going a bit too far, but it didn’t seem to be a problem for 99% of the churches in Rome.
It might seem extreme, but it will directly stop most of what he was talking about in the video.
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
Most of what he points out as “Americanisms” are actually from Europe. In the USA a complete divorce of faith and politics is relatively new and still doesn’t fully exist. In Europe its been almost absolute since the end of WW2. The excessive “liberalism” of religion is also more rooted in Europe than the USA.
The whole “I don’t need to kneel” thing is not as big an issue as its portrayed and I think Vorris might actually be seeing Europeans kneeling only from the Epiclesis to the Mysterium Fidei rather than Americans refusing to kneel. And, of course, the Masses are probably rather long and I would guess in a very open space. Those kinds of environments lend themselves to people forgetting to kneel.
As for Americans receiving in the hand, that might be simple confusion on their part.
Immodest dress for Mass is not only an American issue as Vorris claims. I’ve been to Masses in various parts of the world and witnessed similiar issues. I’m not sure that’s an “Americanism.”
Mass attendance is actually better in the USA than most of Europe so I fail to see how low Mass attendance can be considered an “Americanism.”
Of all the first hand accounts I’ve read of the WYD in Spain, Vorris is the first one I’ve seen that raises any of these issues. This might, perhaps, be a situation of missing the forest for the trees.
The whole “I don’t need to kneel” thing is not as big an issue as its portrayed and I think Vorris might actually be seeing Europeans kneeling only from the Epiclesis to the Mysterium Fidei rather than Americans refusing to kneel. And, of course, the Masses are probably rather long and I would guess in a very open space. Those kinds of environments lend themselves to people forgetting to kneel.
As for Americans receiving in the hand, that might be simple confusion on their part.
Immodest dress for Mass is not only an American issue as Vorris claims. I’ve been to Masses in various parts of the world and witnessed similiar issues. I’m not sure that’s an “Americanism.”
Mass attendance is actually better in the USA than most of Europe so I fail to see how low Mass attendance can be considered an “Americanism.”
Of all the first hand accounts I’ve read of the WYD in Spain, Vorris is the first one I’ve seen that raises any of these issues. This might, perhaps, be a situation of missing the forest for the trees.
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FAB
Guest
Voris is the Ugly Amercan.
I found his critique of our young worshipers unnesccesary. Yes they recieve on the tounge, the American Church has dispinsation to do so. If their dress was imodest, we would do well to remember this was an outdoor mass, the tempature was extreme and perhaps the Americans were the ones with enough sense to dress for the weather.
This kind of diatribe does not do anyone any good and is just another opinionated individual with nothing ever good to say about the American Church and it’s practices.
I found his critique of our young worshipers unnesccesary. Yes they recieve on the tounge, the American Church has dispinsation to do so. If their dress was imodest, we would do well to remember this was an outdoor mass, the tempature was extreme and perhaps the Americans were the ones with enough sense to dress for the weather.
This kind of diatribe does not do anyone any good and is just another opinionated individual with nothing ever good to say about the American Church and it’s practices.
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FAB
Guest
Kneeling is a fairly recent development in Church History and 400 years old. Standing is a perfectly acceptble posture of respect, particularly taking in acount the circumstances.Also, at the Vigil, I can’t believe the number of people that stood there as the consecration was taking place. Even worse, some people were walking around and talking as it was going on!
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I have been at an outdoor Papal mass. It in itself is often very distracting from just the numbers and the distance. Even though you know your are at an eucharistict celebration, but at the same time feel disconnected from the prayer.
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zab
Guest
I remember when Pope John Paul II began World Youth Day and what an amazing sight it was to see tens of thousands (or hundreds of thousands- I remember some saying it drew more people than Woodstock) of youth from all over the world attending the event at a time when you never expected to see so many youth attend such a religious event. And when WYD came to Denver, we had several youth from our parish take the trip there. They did not all come from traditional Catholic families. But they all came back noticeably changed from the experience. They began to participate more attending daily Mass and adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. I doubt that every teen or young adult that goes to WYD are devout Catholics. But they can learn from the example of other good Catholics as well as from the words that the Holy Father addresses to them.
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Onegin
Guest
The “Americanism” referred to really seems to be liberalism which was jump-started during the French Revolution. It spread like a virus through Europe and hit the US in the 1960’s where it has been wreaking havoc ever since. However, each country does have it’s own brand of liberalism and things which are tolerated at Mass more readily in one country are not in another. To paint with a bit of a broad brush here, I think Europe has become much more comfortable with the modernisation of the churches where, perhaps, America’s puritain heritage may have delayed that somewhat?
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Poor_Soul
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:clapping:
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NewEnglandPriest
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In the Eastern Churches there is no kneeling during the Easter season. It is an ancient tradition. So, in and of itself, standing during the consecration is not disrespectful.
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NewEnglandPriest
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BigFellaMick
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I think that americanism is a rather narrow claim as there are plenty of europeans who fail the Lord as well on a regular basis, but americans take the cake for this country being the most corrupt in the present day. Not so much for political changes but a total societal shift that puts anyone who worships God below the rest of those in the “intellectual collective” of society. The whole puritan/protestant movement that created america has bred a hostile enviornment for Catholics since americas first day. This country has been anti catholic since its inception and in spite of that the Church grew and flourished. I have lost all faith in america as a country and the vast majority (not all of course) of people, but I still have faith in the Catholic Church and if anything will save america from its downward spiral into oblivion it will be the Catholic Church at the behest of our Good Lord and Savior.
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NewEnglandPriest
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At least in the USA a presidential candidate has to at least pretend to have faith. In Europe publicly talking about your faith will ensure your nonelection…
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