Ukraine Proseletising

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Scitor said:
Peter J…I have no clue what “wrt” means, nor do I have any clue what you mean by “nobody likes a copycat.”

Actually, I have no clue what point you are trying to make with your post. I am a simple guy. You need to be more clear for me to understand.:confused:
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Just a little humor. You made the same point that Andrew made, only in reverse. 🙂
 
Scitor said:
Sorry…but you are incorrect on your stats Josie: Roman Catholic (nominal) 73.6%, Protestant 15.4%, Spiritualist 1.3%, Bantu/Voodoo 0.3%, other 1.8%, unspecified 0.2%, none 7.4% (2000 census).

And from spending some time in Brazil, I will tell you that many of the 73.6% who call themselves Catholic, well, if I were Catholic, I would be embarrassed.
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No, I’m not, the 2% I referenced was before a concerted effort was made by Christian missionaries to convert Brazil, i.e., there was a time not so long ago that Brazil was 98% Catholic, now it’s at 73.6% because of inroads made by these missionaries. Moreover, I wouldn’t so proud about how Christian missionaries are converting Catholics either, some are using a prosperity gospel to entice Catholics away from their faith (I still blame poor catechesis, however, for the resulting loss, but I do not appreciate Christian missionaries coming into countries that are predominantly Catholic).

P.S. And I wouldn’t refer to all Catholics in Brazil as nominal if I were you, it shows your bias.

God bless!
 
Scitor said:
twf…the result would likely be the opposite of what you expect. Please, bring as many Catholics to the Bible Belt. You may be surprised when many of those Catholic missionaries end up staying, putting off a reliance of works, and putting on a faith by grace.👍😃
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Yes, because I believe that I am saved by my works and not God’s grace. :rolleyes: And yes, I would be surprised if Catholic missionaries convert, i.e., they are not easy pickings! 👍
 
josie_L said:
Yes, because I believe that I am saved by my works and not God’s grace. :rolleyes: And yes, I would be surprised if Catholic missionaries convert, i.e., they are not easy pickings! 👍
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So…you believe you are saved by your works. By saying this, the logical and only conclusion one can reach is that you, apart from God, are solely responsible for your salvation. And, how do you know if you are saved if it is by works? What is the benchmark? How much work? Which works? How can we be “anxious for nothing” if we can not be assured of our salvation?

The love of Christ through faith produces good works…not the other way around. You are confusing Sanctification and Salvation. Salvation is immediate. Sanctification is an ongoing process.

How do you reconcile Ephesians 2:8-9 → 8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift— 9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

And, The major theme of Paul’s letters is that salvation is a totally free gift – not earned by good works, rituals, or obeying laws. Eternal life is by grace through faith.

In Romans chapters three and four alone, Paul states this principle no fewer than fifteen times. A few examples are:

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight…” (Rom. 3:19).

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested…” (3:20).

“Being justified freely by his grace…” (3:24).

“…Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness” (4:3).

“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justified the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” (4:5).

“…God imputeth righteousness without works” (4:6).

Therefore it is of faith that it might be by grace…" (4:16).
 
josie_L said:
No, I’m not, the 2% I referenced was before a concerted effort was made by Christian missionaries to convert Brazil, i.e., there was a time not so long ago that Brazil was 98% Catholic, now it’s at 73.6% because of inroads made by these missionaries. Moreover, I wouldn’t so proud about how Christian missionaries are converting Catholics either, some are using a prosperity gospel to entice Catholics away from their faith (I still blame poor catechesis, however, for the resulting loss, but I do not appreciate Christian missionaries coming into countries that are predominantly Catholic).

P.S. And I wouldn’t refer to all Catholics in Brazil as nominal if I were you, it shows your bias.

God bless!
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First, nowhere did I refer to “all” or any Catholics in Brazil as nominal. You show your bias by reading into the text what is not there.

Second, if you are going to state 98% of Brazilians were Catholic prior to Protestant missionaries, please provide a source. To be honest, I think you are pulling this number out of thin air bc it just happens to be what you believe. Every source I checked…never was Brazil 98% Catholic or even close to that number.
 
Scitor said:
So…you believe you are saved by your works. By saying this, the logical and only conclusion one can reach is that you, apart from God, are solely responsible for your salvation. .
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Don’t you recognise sarcasm when you see it Scitor? That is what the rolling eyes icon meant. :rolleyes:

NO ZERO Catholic or Orthodox believes in salvation by works, that is a lie based solely on predjudice. How old are you Scitor?

I could as easily say “it’s easy to be Baptist, all you have to do is 'git saved and do as you will”. But I know better. You see predjudice, and ignorance goes two ways.
 
babochka said:
Too late, I’m afraid. My city has tens of thousands of Ukrainian immigrants, almost all Baptists and Pentecostals.
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The Baptists have focused on Eastern Europe since the dawn of the Cold War.

My mother-in-law’s family was brought to America by Baptist sponsors in the early 1950s.

Ever been to a Baptist church with icons? I have - rather unique, to say the least. Ask any so-called Russian or Ukrainian Baptist for details on their religious heritage.
 
There are also apparently lots of Baptists in Georgia who carry on with Orthodox-like trappings, including icons, bearded priests and bishops, liturgical dress, etc. Here is one of their “bishops”, Malkhaz Songulashvili:



It has been reported to me by Orthodox Tewahedo friends more than once that back at home in Ethiopia, it is known that Protestants will sometimes dress up in the garb of Orthodox monks to preach publicly about the “errors” of Orthodoxy, thereby giving their criticism an air of authority and knowledge that none of these people actually have. It’s disgusting.
 
andrewstx said:
Don’t you recognise sarcasm when you see it Scitor? That is what the rolling eyes icon meant. :rolleyes:

NO ZERO Catholic or Orthodox believes in salvation by works, that is a lie based solely on predjudice. How old are you Scitor?

I could as easily say “it’s easy to be Baptist, all you have to do is 'git saved and do as you will”. But I know better. You see predjudice, and ignorance goes two ways.
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Thank you, Andrewstx. 🙂
 
Scitor said:
First, nowhere did I refer to “all” or any Catholics in Brazil as nominal. You show your bias by reading into the text what is not there.
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Well, it’s a good thing I can copy and paste:
Sorry…but you are incorrect on your stats Josie: Roman Catholic (nominal) 73.6%, Protestant 15.4%, Spiritualist 1.3%, Bantu/Voodoo 0.3%, other 1.8%, unspecified 0.2%, none 7.4% (2000 census).
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I did not see any qualifiers, i.e., RC (nominal) 73.6%.
Second, if you are going to state 98% of Brazilians were Catholic prior to Protestant missionaries, please provide a source. To be honest, I think you are pulling this number out of thin air bc it just happens to be what you believe. Every source I checked…never was Brazil 98% Catholic or even close to that number.
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Yes, Brazil was the most Catholic nation in the world at one point in time, with 98% of its population identifying as Catholic. You can google it.
 
dzheremi said:
There are also apparently lots of Baptists in Georgia who carry on with Orthodox-like trappings, including icons, bearded priests and bishops, liturgical dress, etc. Here is one of their “bishops”, Malkhaz Songulashvili:

http://www.pullen.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/international4-169x300.jpg

It has been reported to me by Orthodox Tewahedo friends more than once that back at home in Ethiopia, it is known that Protestants will sometimes dress up in the garb of Orthodox monks to preach publicly about the “errors” of Orthodoxy, thereby giving their criticism an air of authority and knowledge that none of these people actually have. It’s disgusting.
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Interesting, and new to me … although I have heard of Eastern-Rite Anglicans and Lutherans.
 
Scitor said:
So…you believe you are saved by your works. By saying this, the logical and only conclusion one can reach is that you, apart from God, are solely responsible for your salvation. And, how do you know if you are saved if it is by works? What is the benchmark? How much work? Which works? How can we be “anxious for nothing” if we can not be assured of our salvation?

.
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Scitor, not only did you miss the emoticon, but please open your own thread rather than hijack this one.
 
dzheremi said:
There are also apparently lots of Baptists in Georgia who carry on with Orthodox-like trappings, including icons, bearded priests and bishops, liturgical dress, etc. Here is one of their “bishops”, Malkhaz Songulashvili:

http://www.pullen.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/international4-169x300.jpg

It has been reported to me by Orthodox Tewahedo friends more than once that back at home in Ethiopia, it is known that Protestants will sometimes dress up in the garb of Orthodox monks to preach publicly about the “errors” of Orthodoxy, thereby giving their criticism an air of authority and knowledge that none of these people actually have. It’s disgusting.
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I have no words why Baptists would eschew formal trappings and then adopt them…
 
Miserissima said:
I don’t disbelieve you; can you tell me how?
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Well, not to dwell on the negative, but centuries ago (and to some extent even in the first half of the 20th century) the primary purpose of the Eastern Catholic Churches was considered (by many anyhow) to be getting EOs to become EC.
 
Peter_J said:
Well, not to dwell on the negative, but centuries ago (and to some extent even in the first half of the 20th century) the primary purpose of the Eastern Catholic Churches was considered (by many anyhow) to be getting EOs to become EC.
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So this was the opinion of those people, right?
 
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