Ukrainian Catholic Holy Saturday tradition questions; for Eastern and Latin rite people

[Vman358]

I attend a Ukrainian Catholic Byzantine Rite Church.

Does anyone else have Easter basket blessings on Saturdays? and if you do, do you sing “Christ is Risen” during it? I’ve grown up doing this and asked my priest why we do that and he said that it is for practical reasons. The Easter basket blessing should ideally happen after the Easter Divine Liturgy, but because all of our Easter services combined are 3 hours long, no one would stay an extra 1/2 hour to bless baskets. Does practicality justify doing something like this? By “this” I mean moving a service the day before and singing things that have not yet come (i.e. Christ is Risen).

Also, does anyone have St. Basil’s Liturgy on Saturday morning? I’ve heard that it is a vigil service that is supposed to be held at night on Saturday, but since Easter services are held so early in the morning on Sunday (6am), the vigil is moved closer to mid-day. In my church, we have Easter basket blessings at 3pm, 4pm, and 5pm, so the service is moved to 10am on Holy Saturday. Is this okay to move a vigil to the morning, and if so, why?

I feel like ‘practical reasons’ have trumped what should be done, but then again, I could be wrong. My priest gave the following analogy to me: parents are preparing dinner to be eaten at 5pm, but their children don’t get home until 6pm. Do the parents still eat at 5pm? No. They wait to serve their children and do it as a family. The same way the Church will adapt to serve the needs of the faithful.

I understand the point my priest is making, but it seems protestant-ish to do things for convenience. Are there other things we Eastern Riters do as a church and/or parish that will have practicality as a reason for changing something? Are there things in the Latin Rite church or parishes that have been changed, added, or removed for practicality?

 

[Patchunky]

I attend a Ukrainian Catholic Byzantine Rite Church.

Does anyone else have Easter basket blessings on Saturdays? and if you do, do you sing “Christ is Risen” during it? I’ve grown up doing this and asked my priest why we do that and he said that it is for practical reasons. The Easter basket blessing should ideally happen after the Easter Divine Liturgy, but because all of our Easter services combined are 3 hours long, no one would stay an extra 1/2 hour to bless baskets. Does practicality justify doing something like this? By “this” I mean moving a service the day before and singing things that have not yet come (i.e. Christ is Risen).

Also, does anyone have St. Basil’s Liturgy on Saturday morning? I’ve heard that it is a vigil service that is supposed to be held at night on Saturday, but since Easter services are held so early in the morning on Sunday (6am), the vigil is moved closer to mid-day. In my church, we have Easter basket blessings at 3pm, 4pm, and 5pm, so the service is moved to 10am on Holy Saturday. Is this okay to move a vigil to the morning, and if so, why?

I feel like ‘practical reasons’ have trumped what should be done, but then again, I could be wrong. My priest gave the following analogy to me: parents are preparing dinner to be eaten at 5pm, but their children don’t get home until 6pm. Do the parents still eat at 5pm? No. They wait to serve their children and do it as a family. The same way the Church will adapt to serve the needs of the faithful.

I understand the point my priest is making, but it seems protestant-ish to do things for convenience. Are there other things we Eastern Riters do as a church and/or parish that will have practicality as a reason for changing something? Are there things in the Latin Rite church or parishes that have been changed, added, or removed for practicality?

CHRISTOS VOSKRES!

My parish is a Ruthenian Catholic one so it’s almost the same. We bless baskets after the St. Basil’s Liturgy on Great Saturday afternoon but also again after Resurrection Matins and Divine Liturgy on Sunday morning.

I usually go to a parish in Pennsylvania to be with relatives for Easter and they have Resurrection Matins on Saturday evening and then bless baskets. They have Divine Liturgy on Sunday morning and bless baskets after that Divine Liturgy as well.

They have moved the time of Resurrection Matins from 10pm to 8pm because of the large number of elderly parishoners, who do not like to be out so late. We are seeing an increased number of time changes due to the increasing age of parishoners…

hope this helps…

 

[Cluny]

It is customary in many places to bless baskets on Holy Saturday afternoon after the Vesperal Liturgy, but the Resurrection Troparion of Tone 2 “When You descended to death, O Life Immoral…” (the proper Troparion of Holy Saturday) should be sung at that time, i/o the Paschal Troparion.

There was one drive-by (literally) who expected the priest to interrupt the Vesperal Liturgy to bless her basket. She was irritated when he didn’t.

 

[Aramis]

Our parish tradition is finish pirogi making, prep for the easter egg hunt & children’s party, then vesperal DL, then the party previously prepped for. Full day.

 

[KyivAndrew]

I attend a Ukrainian Catholic Byzantine Rite Church.

Does anyone else have Easter basket blessings on Saturdays? and if you do, do you sing “Christ is Risen” during it? I’ve grown up doing this and asked my priest why we do that and he said that it is for practical reasons. The Easter basket blessing should ideally happen after the Easter Divine Liturgy, but because all of our Easter services combined are 3 hours long, no one would stay an extra 1/2 hour to bless baskets. Does practicality justify doing something like this? By “this” I mean moving a service the day before and singing things that have not yet come (i.e. Christ is Risen).

Also, does anyone have St. Basil’s Liturgy on Saturday morning? I’ve heard that it is a vigil service that is supposed to be held at night on Saturday, but since Easter services are held so early in the morning on Sunday (6am), the vigil is moved closer to mid-day. In my church, we have Easter basket blessings at 3pm, 4pm, and 5pm, so the service is moved to 10am on Holy Saturday. Is this okay to move a vigil to the morning, and if so, why?

I feel like ‘practical reasons’ have trumped what should be done, but then again, I could be wrong. My priest gave the following analogy to me: parents are preparing dinner to be eaten at 5pm, but their children don’t get home until 6pm. Do the parents still eat at 5pm? No. They wait to serve their children and do it as a family. The same way the Church will adapt to serve the needs of the faithful.

I understand the point my priest is making, but it seems protestant-ish to do things for convenience. Are there other things we Eastern Riters do as a church and/or parish that will have practicality as a reason for changing something? Are there things in the Latin Rite church or parishes that have been changed, added, or removed for practicality?

Yes, we have had since I can remember Saturday Blessings of paska, with the reminder from the priest NOT to consume the blessed food until Easter Sunday Mass. And yes, we like many Ukrainian Catholic parishes in the areas sing “Khrystos Voskres” on Saturday during this, causing some confusion so that if family phones on Saturday from a parish that does blessing on Sunday, the telephone recipient, when I proclaim in answering the phone Christ is Risen!, they hesitate with the Voistynu Voskres, expecting it premature, but just realizing that different parishes have different routines.
It’s been done by inertia this way for years but I think its done to lighten the priest’s load on Sunday (several masses) and to enable the faithful who live really faraway at least to get their food blessed.

 

[mlouise007]

Christ is risen!
In my Latin Rite parish we have blessing of foods on Saturday mid morning.

Singing “Christ is Risen” does seem pretty odd if it’s taking place on Holy/Great Saturday day. That would feel really awkward. (Of course it feels very strange to celebrate the exuberance of Easter Vigil in my Latin Rite parish Saturday night and the next day be back at Palm Sunday with the Byzantine parish but that’s a different thread! LOL)

Also, does anyone have St. Basil’s Liturgy on Saturday morning? I’ve heard that it is a vigil service that is supposed to be held at night on Saturday, but since Easter services are held so early in the morning on Sunday (6am), the vigil is moved closer to mid-day. In my church, we have Easter basket blessings at 3pm, 4pm, and 5pm, so the service is moved to 10am on Holy Saturday. Is this okay to move a vigil to the morning, and if so, why?

Easter Vigil in my Latin Rite parish starts at 8:00pm Saturday night, which is the earliest it’s permitted to happen for us. I’d have to ask around to see where that is stipulated but for sure it cannot be earlier in my diocese and the neighboring one. Our Masses on Easter Sunday are the same times as on any other Sunday except there is no Sunday evening Mass on Easter Sunday. The blessing of the foods happens only once, on Sat. mid morning.

I wasn’t at my Byzantine Parish for their Pascha Divine Liturgy because I felt the distance and location weren’t safe for me to drive home at 3:00 or 4:00am, so I attended an Orthodox cathedral close to my home. Their Anastasis service was at 11:00pm Saturday and Divine Liturgy around midnight. The cathedral was standing room only for the Anastasis service. In spite of the priests entreating about half the people left when the Anastasis ended and did not stay for the Divine Liturgy. I didn’t see any food baskets but I didn’t stay for their Agape and they may have had a blessing of foods there. Still half the folks were asleep in bed so evidently there was also another time for blessing foods. I didn’t see it listed in the parish bulletin but I’m sure there must have been the blessing.

I understand the point my priest is making, but it seems protestant-ish to do things for convenience. Are there other things we Eastern Riters do as a church and/or parish that will have practicality as a reason for changing something? Are there things in the Latin Rite church or parishes that have been changed, added, or removed for practicality?

Bold added to your quote by me: This you’d have to narrow down Where to begin?.. Don’t even get me started on what got “changed, added, or removed” in the Easter Vigil this year at my parish apparently so we could be done in record time. There’ was one thing that got removed from past year, which should never have been added, so that was a good thing, LOL.

Christ is risen! Let us rejoice!

 

[Cluny]

I wasn’t at my Byzantine Parish for their Pascha Divine Liturgy because I felt the distance and location weren’t safe for me to drive home at 3:00 or 4:00am, so I attended an Orthodox cathedral close to my home. Their Anastasis service was at 11:00pm Saturday and Divine Liturgy around midnight. The cathedral was standing room only for the Anastasis service. In spite of the priests entreating about half the people left when the Anastasis ended and did not stay for the Divine Liturgy. I didn’t see any food baskets but I didn’t stay for their Agape and they may have had a blessing of foods there. Still half the folks were asleep in bed so evidently there was also another time for blessing foods. I didn’t see it listed in the parish bulletin but I’m sure there must have been the blessing.

The blessing of Paschal foods is especially a Russian, Ukrainian, and Carpathian custom.

It’s not done by in all Orthodox traditions, though multi-ethnic parishes, especially Antiochian ones, seem to be picking up the custom.

And you’re right–they could have brought their baskets to the parish hall to have them blessed there.

 

[Diak]

Yes, we have had since I can remember Saturday Blessings of paska, with the reminder from the priest NOT to consume the blessed food until Easter Sunday Mass. And yes, we like many Ukrainian Catholic parishes in the areas sing “Khrystos Voskres” on Saturday during this, causing some confusion so that if family phones on Saturday from a parish that does blessing on Sunday, the telephone recipient, when I proclaim in answering the phone Christ is Risen!, they hesitate with the Voistynu Voskres, expecting it premature, but just realizing that different parishes have different routines.
It’s been done by inertia this way for years but I think its done to lighten the priest’s load on Sunday (several masses) and to enable the faithful who live really faraway at least to get their food blessed.

In Ukraine if the priest only blessed after the Paschal Divine Liturgy he would probably be there for about 24 hours straight. Because of sheer numbers, the blessings begin (with rotating priests in the larger cities) after the Vesperal Liturgy in late morning or early afternoon, and it is understood the food is for Pascha, not Holy Saturday.

A good greeting on Holy Saturday I have heard in the last few years is “Let God Arise” or “nekhaiy voskresniy Boh” in the interim between Jerusalem Matins and Paschal Matins.

 

[mardukm]

Isn’t the liturgical Sunday for the Latin Church from 6:00 P.M. on Saturday to 6:00 P.M on Sunday?

Blessings

 

[Diak]

I don’t know about the Latin Church but typically the liturgical day begins at Vespers which is celebrated some time after ninth hour (ninth hour usually 3-4 p.m.). 5 or 6 p.m. is a common convention.

Pascha is unique and most Eastern Churches reckon Pascha proper starts at midnight after Holy Saturday. The Vesperal Liturgy is often celebrated around 11 a.m. or early afternoon even in Orthodox churches as a pastoral measure to allow everyone a rest before the graveside (Midnight) office and Matins.

 

[Patchunky]

The blessing of Paschal foods is especially a Russian, Ukrainian, and Carpathian custom.

Don’t forget the Slovaks, Hungarians, Croatians, Slovenes, Czechs, Poles, Belarussians because they bless baskets as well…

 

[Patchunky]

In Ukraine if the priest only blessed after the Paschal Divine Liturgy he would probably be there for about 24 hours straight. Because of sheer numbers, the blessings begin (with rotating priests in the larger cities) after the Vesperal Liturgy in late morning or early afternoon, and it is understood the food is for Pascha, not Holy Saturday.

One of my friends is a priest and he was in Uzhorod for Old Calendar Easter last year. They closed off the streets around the Greek Catholic Cathedral about 10pm. People started bring their baskets to be blessed. Fr. Tom had the 1st blessing around 11pm and he guess-timated that he blessedd 6,000 baskets.

Father said they had 50 55-gallon containers of holy water and they went through all of it. He said they blessed baskets every 30 minutes or so on Holy Saturday night…

 

[Vman358]

Isn’t the liturgical Sunday for the Latin Church from 6:00 P.M. on Saturday to 6:00 P.M on Sunday?

Blessings

Does anyone know if this is the same for the Byzantine Rite? Does it change from Ruthenian to Ukrainian to what ever the church?

 

[Aramis]

Does anyone know if this is the same for the Byzantine Rite? Does it change from Ruthenian to Ukrainian to what ever the church?

It changes from Church to Church, tho’ in general, Vespers begins the “liturgical day.”

Roman canon law establishes that vesperal liturgies use the following day’s propers, except as noted, but the day is defined as midnight to midnight…

 

[Diak]

Does anyone know if this is the same for the Byzantine Rite? Does it change from Ruthenian to Ukrainian to what ever the church?

The beginning of the day in the evening before is universal to both Christianity and Judaism. The liturgical day begins the evening before according to the order of creation as we read in Genesis “and there was evening and morning, the first day” and ends at the ninth hour. We thus begin the liturgical day at Vespers (derived from the Greek term for “of the evening”, hesperinos). This is a direct carryover from the Jewish tradition as the Shabbat begins Friday evening.

Pastorally speaking, midnight is used as a consistent time to begin/end a fast or feast since the time for the celebration of Vespers can vary, and in many places Vespers is not celebrated in parishes (especially in the Latin Rite).

Roman canon law establishes that vesperal liturgies use the following day’s propers, except as noted, but the day is defined as midnight to midnight…

I assume here you are referring to the Latin rite since “Roman canon law” does not legislate Eastern “vesperal liturgies”, which were traditionally only taken on four days (Christmas, Theophany, Holy Thursday, and Pascha) with a specific fasting, liturgical and theological significance.

 

[Diak]

One of my friends is a priest and he was in Uzhorod for Old Calendar Easter last year. They closed off the streets around the Greek Catholic Cathedral about 10pm. People started bring their baskets to be blessed. Fr. Tom had the 1st blessing around 11pm and he guess-timated that he blessedd 6,000 baskets.

Father said they had 50 55-gallon containers of holy water and they went through all of it. He said they blessed baskets every 30 minutes or so on Holy Saturday night…

The story as I have it from Preobrazhenska the first year it officially reopened as a Greek Catholic parish in L’viv from out of the underground (1990) is a good one. The pasok blessing started on Saturday afternoon at the end of Vesperal Liturgy of St. Basil, went until early morning stopping for Nahdrobnoe, Paschalny Utrennya and Paschal Divine Liturgy, and then continued straight through until Agape Vespers on Sunday evening with people lining up over a mile long at times.

 

[mlouise007]

I don’t know about the Latin Church but typically the liturgical day begins at Vespers which is celebrated some time after ninth hour (ninth hour usually 3-4 p.m.). 5 or 6 p.m. is a common convention.

Linking it to Vespers (Latin): “Vesper time varied according to the season between the tenth hour (4 p. m.) and the twelfth (6 p. m.). As a matter of fact it was no longer the evening hour, but the sunset hour, so that it was celebrated before the day had departed and consequently before there was any necessity for artificial light (Regula S. Benedicti, xli).” (Catholic Encyclopedia)

Whenever I’ve heard it explained it’s been as after sundown following the Jewish tradition. So we Latin can satisfy our Sunday “obligation” by attending Sat. evening Mass. In my parish it’s at 5:00pm. However the Sunday obligation is also satisfied by attending the *Sunday evening *7:00pm Mass at my parish, (like wouldn’t that be Monday by this reckoning?) or say the Sunday night 10 p.m Mass at the local parish housing the Newman Center.

Easter Vigil in my diocese and neighboring diocese cannot begin before 8:00pm which I imagine is an attempt to conform to the after sunset hour end of the day idea (in March or April).

I’m heading off to 5:00 Mass now and we are no where near sundown now in May.

 

[Holupki]

Christ is Risen!

In our Ruthenian parish, we a have a full cycle of services. Holy Saturday evening we have Vespers with Divine Liturgy and Father does bless the baskets. There is no Christ is Risen though–He is not yet Risen. Many folks who come once or twice a year attend. The altar vestments are typically still in Lenten red and not white. Thematically, this Saturday Liturgy is concerned with the descent of Christ into Hades, rather than His resurrection.

Sunday morning, we have Resurrection Matins, followed by Divine Liturgy and then Father blesses the baskets. It is about 3 hours. Christ is Risen is the theme of the morning. The Church is packed.

We have many young families in the parish who travel from far and wide, so I suspect there are pastoral reasons for not having Paschal services at midnight.

 

[Vman358]

The beginning of the day in the evening before is universal to both Christianity and Judaism. The liturgical day begins the evening before according to the order of creation as we read in Genesis “and there was evening and morning, the first day” and ends at the ninth hour. We thus begin the liturgical day at Vespers (derived from the Greek term for “of the evening”, hesperinos). This is a direct carryover from the Jewish tradition as the Shabbat begins Friday evening.

Pastorally speaking, midnight is used as a consistent time to begin/end a fast or feast since the time for the celebration of Vespers can vary, and in many places Vespers is not celebrated in parishes (especially in the Latin Rite).

I assume here you are referring to the Latin rite since “Roman canon law” does not legislate Eastern “vesperal liturgies”, which were traditionally only taken on four days (Christmas, Theophany, Holy Thursday, and Pascha) with a specific fasting, liturgical and theological significance.

So what is the legislation currently in effect and past legislations (and why, if they were, changed) regarding Eastern “vesperal liturgies”?

 

[Vman358]

Linking it to Vespers (Latin): “Vesper time varied according to the season between the tenth hour (4 p. m.) and the twelfth (6 p. m.). As a matter of fact it was no longer the evening hour, but the sunset hour, so that it was celebrated before the day had departed and consequently before there was any necessity for artificial light (Regula S. Benedicti, xli).” (Catholic Encyclopedia)

Whenever I’ve heard it explained it’s been as after sundown following the Jewish tradition. So we Latin can satisfy our Sunday “obligation” by attending Sat. evening Mass. In my parish it’s at 5:00pm. However the Sunday obligation is also satisfied by attending the *Sunday evening *7:00pm Mass at my parish, (like wouldn’t that be Monday by this reckoning?) or say the Sunday night 10 p.m Mass at the local parish housing the Newman Center.

Easter Vigil in my diocese and neighboring diocese cannot begin before 8:00pm which I imagine is an attempt to conform to the after sunset hour end of the day idea (in March or April).

I’m heading off to 5:00 Mass now and we are no where near sundown now in May.

Can you please explain how the following coincide: the American day (I assume midnight to midnight), the liturgical day (I assume sunset to sunset, or are there times), and how what time frames are allocated for what forms of worship and how do they vary or change (if there is a time stipulation applied)? I know vespers is (supposed to be?) around the time it gets dark and matins (supposed to be?) around the time it gets light. What are all the services, which ones do both Rites do, which ones are different?

Which type of “day” is “6th hour” "9th hour"follow?