Ukrainian Famine, one of the worst tragedies of the last century of which the world is just beginning to learn

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I personally think that people need to talk more about this and be more aware about this tagic event , so that in the future to prevent such horrors.
Here is the facebook page
Ukrainian Genocide Famine Foundation - USA
 
I first heard about the Holodomor while writing my first term paper on the USSR in the late 70’s. It was reported on during the time by a Welsh journalist, Gareth Jones.
… on 29 March 1933, he issued his famous press release which was published by many newspapers including the Manchester Guardian and the New York Evening Post:
I walked along through villages and twelve collective farms. Everywhere was the cry, ‘There is no bread. We are dying’. This cry came from every part of Russia, from the Volga, Siberia, White Russia, the North Caucasus, and Central Asia. I tramped through the black earth region because that was once the richest farmland in Russia and because the correspondents have been forbidden to go there to see for themselves what is happening.
In the train a Communist denied to me that there was a famine. I flung a crust of bread which I had been eating from my own supply into a spittoon. A peasant fellow-passenger fished it out and ravenously ate it. I threw an orange peel into the spittoon and the peasant again grabbed it and devoured it. The Communist subsided. I stayed overnight in a village where there used to be two hundred oxen and where there now are six. The peasants were eating the cattle fodder and had only a month’s supply left. They told me that many had already died of hunger. Two soldiers came to arrest a thief. They warned me against travel by night, as there were too many ‘starving’ desperate men.
‘We are waiting for death’ was my welcome, but see, we still, have our cattle fodder. Go farther south. There they have nothing. Many houses are empty of people already dead,’ they cried.
It was reported, just not well received by the media or politicians for various reasons, so they buried it, made it sound like it was all made up.

Media is a powerful tool. Be careful - get your news from a variety of sources (not just different outlets parroting each other).
 
He most definitely did, along with the forced famine in the Volga Region. But how many people, particularly young ones, have ever read Gulag Archipelago?

One very disturbing thing about today’s Russia is that nobody has been prosecuted for any of those crimes. Lenin, who was not responsible for the Ukrainian terror-famine, but was responsible for the Volga Region famine, is still enshrined in Moscow. Solzhenitzyn opined that the soul of Russia would never be cleansed of the sins of that era until it faced them and accounted for them.

I look forward to the day when they unceremoniously take Lenin’s body out and bury it in some unknown place in the tundra and dismantle his shrine to the last stone. I hope I live long enough to see it, as there seems to be no move at all to do it.

I’ll add that Gulag Archipelago should be required reading in every high school in the United States. It’s about a lot more than just the Gulags, but explores the sources and forces of spiritual corruption and virtue as well. Of course, no one who studied it closely would support socialism ever in his life, but would shrink from it like he would from a decaying corpse. So it will never be taught in high school or college, either one.
This is a point that ALL conservatives should make. I’m not saying your one,BTW.
 
This is a point that ALL conservatives should make. I’m not saying your one,BTW.
The ‘education system’ (at least in the US) would be a joke if it were not so dang scary. I did have some wonderful teachers (and rather discerning parents) that pushed me to think for myself, but that concept seems to be discouraged these days. I taught my son how to solve logic problems, pushed him to read books by Marcus Aurelius, Upton Sinclair, and John Stienbeck. None of these books were assigned to him in High School. When I addressed this issue with his teachers, I was educated in ‘Outcome Based Education’, and his history teacher cautioned against not ‘going with the flow’ because my son was more interested in discussing ‘how and why’ rather than memorizing ‘when and where’ events took place.

Lets be careful about terms like ‘conservative’, and ‘socialism’ - as there appears to be a LOT of people who rely on FOX news channel for their sole source of information on current events. I wonder how FOX would have treated the Holodomor if FOX had been around at the time. If you follow the links posted in my previous post, you would learn:
In 1931 he [Jones] was offered employment in New York City by Dr Ivy Lee, public relations advisor to organisations such as the Rockefeller Institute, the Chrysler Foundation, and Standard Oil, to research a book about the Soviet Union.
It has already been stated in earlier posts that Walter Duranty via The New York Times helped to bury the story. Jones issued a rebuttal via The New York Times - so why didn’t this seem to revive what should have been outrage over such a tragedy? His expedition into Soviet Russia had been backed by powerful people - surely they could have used their considerable weight to support Jones. Why didn’t they? For that matter, why was the media of the day downplaying what was happening in Germany at the time? I will leave it to the individuals here to decide that for themselves, but the evidence is easily found, if you care to look for it.
 
The ‘education system’ (at least in the US) would be a joke if it were not so dang scary. I did have some wonderful teachers (and rather discerning parents) that pushed me to think for myself, but that concept seems to be discouraged these days. I taught my son how to solve logic problems, pushed him to read books by Marcus Aurelius, Upton Sinclair, and John Stienbeck. None of these books were assigned to him in High School. When I addressed this issue with his teachers, I was educated in ‘Outcome Based Education’, and his history teacher cautioned against not ‘going with the flow’ because my son was more interested in discussing ‘how and why’ rather than memorizing ‘when and where’ events took place.

Lets be careful about terms like ‘conservative’, and ‘socialism’ - as there appears to be a LOT of people who rely on FOX news channel for their sole source of information on current events. I wonder how FOX would have treated the Holodomor if FOX had been around at the time. If you follow the links posted in my previous post, you would learn:

It has already been stated in earlier posts that Walter Duranty via The New York Times helped to bury the story. Jones issued a rebuttal via The New York Times - so why didn’t this seem to revive what should have been outrage over such a tragedy? His expedition into Soviet Russia had been backed by powerful people - surely they could have used their considerable weight to support Jones. Why didn’t they? For that matter, why was the media of the day downplaying what was happening in Germany at the time? I will leave it to the individuals here to decide that for themselves, but the evidence is easily found, if you care to look for it.
I have been a conservative since high school, but unlike the progressive canards I DO
think for myself. I take Russell Kirk as my example. As far as FOX news goes, I do
not take everything broadcasted on FOX as gospel.I would suggest you read “Liberal
Fascism” by Jonah Goldberg on how Presidents like Wilson and FDR used a culture
of intimidation to squelch dissent against the party line. Also, how progressive thinkers
shaped the narrative at that time. Maybe that’s why the backers of Jones didn’t speak
up. Besides being rich is no guaranity of getting things done,holding the levers of power
and shaping public opinion is the way to get your agenda across. Progressives learned this long ago.
 
I have been a conservative since high school, but unlike the progressive canards I DO
think for myself. I take Russell Kirk as my example. As far as FOX news goes, I do
not take everything broadcasted on FOX as gospel.I would suggest you read “Liberal
Fascism” by Jonah Goldberg on how Presidents like Wilson and FDR used a culture
of intimidation to squelch dissent against the party line. Also, how progressive thinkers
shaped the narrative at that time. Maybe that’s why the backers of Jones didn’t speak
up. Besides being rich is no guaranity of getting things done,holding the levers of power
and shaping public opinion is the way to get your agenda across. Progressives learned this long ago.
You don’t think the wealthy had any control over media outlets they owned? What do you think Rupert Murdock (not exactly what I would consider to be a ‘progressive liberal’) would say to that? I’m not suggesting there isn’t liberal media bias - far from it. I’m saying that wealthy, powerful people have known for a very long time that, to control the media is to wield real power in society. If we only watch one news channel or read one paper, we’re only getting one version of what the owners of those outlets want known. I find it truly frightening to know that many local newspapers (which used to be owned and staffed by local people) have been sold to corporations. My own city’s paper is owned by McClatchy - which purchased Knight Ridder in 2006. McClatchy currently owns at least 30 different papers. The ‘Free Press’ is an illusion.
 
This is a point that ALL conservatives should make. I’m not saying your one,BTW.
Call me what you wish.

Many would call me an arch-conservative in some ways, and a howling liberal in others. It’s hard to avoid that combination if one reads and accepts the Social Encyclicals.
 
One of the important things about the Holodomor is that it explains a lot of the subsequent anti-communist violence in places like Franquist Spain. Consequently, it explains the reason why the Church was sometimes willing to cooperate with jerks like Franco – to keep from being murdered by scumbags like Stalin.

Of course, part of the reason the Holodomor was pushed down the memory hole was precisely to make the subsequent reactions against communism inexplicable and “horrifying” (even though they still typically pale in comparison to communist horrorshows).
 
You don’t think the wealthy had any control over media outlets they owned? What do you think Rupert Murdock (not exactly what I would consider to be a ‘progressive liberal’) would say to that? I’m not suggesting there isn’t liberal media bias - far from it. I’m saying that wealthy, powerful people have known for a very long time that, to control the media is to wield real power in society. If we only watch one news channel or read one paper, we’re only getting one version of what the owners of those outlets want known. I find it truly frightening to know that many local newspapers (which used to be owned and staffed by local people) have been sold to corporations. My own city’s paper is owned by McClatchy - which purchased Knight Ridder in 2006. McClatchy currently owns at least 30 different papers. The ‘Free Press’ is an illusion.
I would love to debate you on this, but to do it on this thread would not be germane to the
topic. PM me if you would like to start a new thread. God Bless.😃
 
I would love to debate you on this, but to do it on this thread would not be germane to the
topic. PM me if you would like to start a new thread. God Bless.😃
With respect, I believe it is germane to the subject at hand. The evidence for this is found in the title of the thread: “…worst tragedies of the last century of which the world is just beginning to learn

My point is not to discuss the merits of conservatism -v- liberalism -v- libertarianism, although I can see why it may have seen that way. I do not affiliate myself with any party, as I agree with some aspects of each, but repulsed by other aspects. I believe these political terms have been twisted beyond recognition.

If you look back on my previous posts in this thread, you will see that I first challenged the assertion that the holodomor had only been made public knowledge in the 80s. I stated that a journalist was sent by powerful men in NYC while it was happening. He brought back and published in numerous large publications, a first hand accounting of what he saw as it happened.

This whole thread is filled with people voicing their disbelief that it wasn’t reported, that it wasn’t taught in schools - and (as far as I know,) many public schools are still not teaching it, just as what they are taught about American History, WWII and Vietnam has been severely edited. I qualify this statement because my son is 24 and majoring in higher mathematics (why, I have no idea - anything beyond algebra makes me feels like I might have a stroke) so I can’t say what exactly is on the current curriculum.
 
With respect, I believe it is germane to the subject at hand. The evidence for this is found in the title of the thread: “…worst tragedies of the last century of which the world is just beginning to learn

My point is not to discuss the merits of conservatism -v- liberalism -v- libertarianism, although I can see why it may have seen that way. I do not affiliate myself with any party, as I agree with some aspects of each, but repulsed by other aspects. I believe these political terms have been twisted beyond recognition.

If you look back on my previous posts in this thread, you will see that I first challenged the assertion that the holodomor had only been made public knowledge in the 80s. I stated that a journalist was sent by powerful men in NYC while it was happening. He brought back and published in numerous large publications, a first hand accounting of what he saw as it happened.

This whole thread is filled with people voicing their disbelief that it wasn’t reported, that it wasn’t taught in schools - and (as far as I know,) many public schools are still not teaching it, just as what they are taught about American History, WWII and Vietnam has been severely edited. I qualify this statement because my son is 24 and majoring in higher mathematics (why, I have no idea - anything beyond algebra makes me feels like I might have a stroke) so I can’t say what exactly is on the current curriculum.
Perhaps people don’t want to know the horrifying truth. But as I stated in a previous post,
the opinion shapers tend to be progressive, and progressives think that the failures and
excesses of communism were not because communism is evil, but because it hasn’t been tried by the right people. As far what is taught, I know that it wasn’t mentioned in my world history class in high school. I blame the school board members who are more
concerned about self esteem than teaching the basics.
 
Perhaps people don’t want to know the horrifying truth. But as I stated in a previous post,
the opinion shapers tend to be progressive, and progressives think that the failures and
excesses of communism were not because communism is evil, but because it hasn’t been tried by the right people. As far what is taught, I know that it wasn’t mentioned in my world history class in high school. I blame the school board members who are more
concerned about self esteem than teaching the basics.
Not all conservatives think alike, nor progressives, republicans, democrats, etc. ad nauseam. We’ve had plenty of conservatives in power for enough years to prove their ideas are the best. The result: deregulation of the banks, utilities, etc. Democrats haven’t exactly proved their argument, either. The opinion shapers are not necessarily progressive - they are powerful. Power seeks more power. As long as lawmakers are influenced by the wealthy, things will continue down the same path.

My personal opinion: teach your kids to think for themselves. Seak out the truth in history and learn both (or all) sides of an argument before deciding which decisions lead to the results that benefit society, and not just one group (because then they become powerful and make all the rules that benefit themselves).
 
We’ve had plenty of conservatives in power for enough years to prove their ideas are the best. The result: deregulation of the banks,
One can rightly accuse conservatives of many things, but not for this. The biggest deregulation was actually under Carter. I was in banking at the time. It turned the whole industry on its head, and one of the big reasons I got out of it. It looked like “occasional huge failures on steroids” to me, and so it has been.
 
It is amazing to me that this is not better known. Nobody teaches it in schools. Nobody holds it up as an example of what can happen when political power is ambitious and absolute.

A lot of people did not, at the time, know about it. Part of that was due to the deceptions practiced by western media people who either sympathized with socialism or found it fed their ambitions and pocketbooks to report a lie. Possibly the worst example was Walter Duranty, a writer for the New York Times who not only whitewashed the famine and the whole Soviet system, but was actually awarded a Pulitzer Prize for it.

But the Ukranian famine was not the only mass starvation of its kind. Another occurred in the Volga region.
Ethnic Germans were targeted in the Volga region during that period.
"
wiki
[/QUOTE]
The Volga region is home to a German minority group, the Volga Germans. Catherine the Great had issued a Manifesto in 1763 inviting all foreigners to come and populate the region, offering them numerous incentives to do so. This was partly to develop the region but also to provide a buffer zone between the Russians and the Mongols to the East. Because of conditions in German territories, Germans responded in the largest numbers. Under the Soviet Union a slice of the region was turned into the Volga German Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic.** Others were executed** or dispersed throughout the Soviet Union prior to and after World War II.
 
Have you guys heard of Bengal Famine of 1943
Yes, it appears the only real truth to be learned here is there is no limit to the willful inhumanity to man. Those in power seek more power, and the victors write the history books.

As far as Jimmy Carter - a true humanitarian, but not a great president (from what we know of the facts today - opinions may change, but probably not), and all of the presidents, the legislature makes the laws - they are responsible for regulation/deregulation. Yes, the president has influence, veto power - which can be overturned by congress. If your claim that the Carter Administration is responsible for deregulation, then surely those errors could have been fixed by Reagan, Bush & Bush. Presidents have executive power - commander-in-chief. Congress is supposed to keep them in check as far as decelerations of war, but we’ve seen that ‘work around’ in action before.

It’s a mess, but it’s the mess we have to work with at the moment. The government sways (a bit) to the will of the people, and public opinion is largely swayed by the media - and around and around we go. The only real power each American citizen has is our individual vote and how we spend our money. If you don’t like who is pulling the strings, don’t buy what they are selling.
 
I’ll add that Gulag Archipelago should be required reading in every high school in the United States. It’s about a lot more than just the Gulags, but explores the sources and forces of spiritual corruption and virtue as well. Of course, no one who studied it closely would support socialism ever in his life, but would shrink from it like he would from a decaying corpse. So it will never be taught in high school or college, either one.
I read The Gulag Archipelago in college (on my own, not as part of any class) and it was a truly life-changing book. One will lose their innocence reading it, but gain great understanding of the human condition.
 
Exactly so. And the left doesn’t want to report it or teach about it to this very day lest people realize just how vicious and totalitarian leftism has been historically, and how base are the motivations of so many of its leaders.
I’ll add that Gulag Archipelago should be required reading in every high school in the United States. It’s about a lot more than just the Gulags, but explores the sources and forces of spiritual corruption and virtue as well. Of course, no one who studied it closely would support socialism ever in his life, but would shrink from it like he would from a decaying corpse. So it will never be taught in high school or college, either one.
It strikes me as interesting – and a bit unnerving – to hear the old and tired trope that American education fails to discuss central historical topics because it’s weak and/or run by those who favor socialism/communism/totalitarianism (all three seem to be one in the same in some posts here). I don’t know any professors (or college administrators, for that matter) who don’t “want to report it or teach about it to this very day lest people realize just how vicious and totalitarian leftism has been historically, and how base are the motivations of so many of its leaders.” :confused: At my institution, there are at least thirty faculty members who regularly teach about the Holocaust, the Holodomor, Armenia, Cambodia, Bosnia, Rwanda, and on and on (plus at least twenty more who engage with these topics every 1-3 years in rotation with other human rights abuses). Our efforts have been institutionalized and given primacy in the college’s strategic plans. And we’re not alone – I can think of at least thirty other post-secondary institutions in the U.S. which have a formal endowment and/or program for this kind of work, and *dozens *more that engage with these topics in various courses and co-curricular programming. I can’t say that we’re the majority, but if we exist, best not to paint with too broad a brush by claiming that those lefty educators won’t ever confront totalitarianism.

I’d like to interject that we know far more about the atrocities of the USSR post-its collapse. There were certainly public attempts prior to this period to draw attention to the Holodomor, which were roundly quashed. But the extent of western knowledge is certainly impacted by increased access to this region.

Some other recommended reading, if anyone’s interested:

Execution by Hunger, by Miron Dolot
Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin, by Timothy Snyder
 
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