Unable to cross arms at communion

[1ke]

Looks like there is some debate about whether non-Catholics can go up (for a blessing) in the first place.

He he. You didn’t think you’d need your full beekeeper suit for the nest you accidentally poked!!

Don’t worry about it. This often becomes a debate on this forum. In practice whatever you do, you do. But now you know what the Church says to do and not do.

I think that holding the infant and not being able to be clear about your desire for a blessing really is the key thing, and in that case it is better to stay in your pew. If you want to go for a blessing then just keep your hands folded and make sure you go to a priest. Extraordinary ministers of holy Communion cannot give blessings.

 

[1ke]

Do children go up with their parents at your church? or sit in the pew and wait for their parents to return?

In my church, some of both. But the kids who are not yet receiving communion typically keep on moving in the line in front of their parents and just continue on they don’t stand there and wait for a blessing. The kids go up but no one is doing blessings or expecting blessings it’s just a matter of the kid being with the parents rather than going for a blessing

 

[vallancec]

Ask the priest what you should do. I’m glad you are bringing your young one to Church. God Bless you and your little one.

 

[1ke]

Agree with you that Jesus wouldn’t send people away.

Priests and EMHCs will typically be gracious when presented with non-communicants in the communion line.

There is a time and a place for everything and Jesus certainly admonished when people needed admonishment. He tells us in the gospel to do it privately at first. While the priest will not make the communion line into a battleground, people should respect and follow the rubrics so that awkward situations and unnecessary fraternal correction need not take place.

 

[joeybaggz]

joeybaggz:

Just don’t see the “harm” in it, outside of the practice offending those who believe that their beliefs are superior and “more correct” than the pastors and bishops who allow or even promote the practice.

So, since you mentioned your gut feel that others hadn’t read what you wrote, I’m curious: did you read the link with the response from the CDF?

Part of the “harm” is that bishops and priests are doing something that they haven’t been given permission to do. So, is there ‘harm’? I mean, outside the possibility of offending those who believe that their beliefs are superior and “more correct” than what the Church’s direction is…

Actually, I did.

As to the harm committed by those priests and bishops doing something not officially recognized, you might be right, but I don’t think it compares to the 70+% of baptized Catholics who have turned their back on the church because it is an organization of “rules and regulations” that, ITO, don’t quite square with the love, mercy, and inclusion shown by Christ himself. A five year old hears the words, “God bless you and keep you” while looking at the consecrated host that mommy or daddy have told him/her is Jesus Himself, and the tradcat crowd is horrified because it is not something “officially” allowed by a group 6000 miles away in a building in Rome. Sad.

 

[GodSpawned]

Surprised someone didnt suggest this earlier, to be honest.

 

[Gorgias]

I don’t think it compares to the 70+% of baptized Catholics who have turned their back on the church

Right. That’s why I said that I’m not sure I wouldn’t categorize this as a tempest in a teapot. Objectively a problem? Sure. In context? Not as big as other problems we’re dealing with…

A five year old hears the words, “God bless you and keep you” while looking at the consecrated host that mommy or daddy have told him/her is Jesus Himself, and the tradcat crowd is horrified because it is not something “officially” allowed by a group 6000 miles away in a building in Rome. Sad.

Are you an EMHC? Do you sit close enough to the front that you see what happens when blessings to children are given? I’d invite you to do so. Here’s what I see most often:

• Children are weirded out and either cringe or do a combination of ‘try to get away’ / ‘try to press themselves into their parent’s torso’
• children don’t understand, and are reaching out “to get a cookie”
• parents push their children out of the way and to the side

Some parents are cool with it, and some kids actually look forward to it. The majority, though, to my experience… do not.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Not a fan of blessings by lay people. Back when I was Roman Catholic (and pregnant I might add), a EMHC blessed my stomach…yeah…pretty weird.

 

[joeybaggz]

Right. That’s why I said that I’m not sure I wouldn’t categorize this as a tempest in a teapot. Objectively a problem? Sure. In context? Not as big as other problems we’re dealing with…

Nice to know we totally agree on something.

An EMHC, no. An acolyte and one who has witnessed this practice for over 30 years. Yes. I’ve seen every mishap possible at Mass in my 65 years as a sentient Catholic. And you know what, the Mass is still here. Christ becomes present at all masses. I’ve seen people die at mass, EMT crews work on heart attack victims while the service continues. I 've seen Down Syndrome victims drop the host from their tongue or walk into the minister of the cup and cause the contents to spill on the ground. And that victim cry unconsolably for hours afterward. I’ve seen children in awe of the host as they receive a blessing from a priest, and years later be ordained. I’ve seen the solemnity of the Pre VII Latin mass and the idiocy of the late 60’s and early 70’s (those “sacrileges” are too numerous to mention). I’ve seen guitar masses, John F. Kennedy prayed to as a saint (that I couldn’t really believe), interpretive dance, and other such offenses. And I believe that if you were to attend Masses in other countries such as Africa or South America, I believe that there is some inclusion of local custom into the mass. I remember JPII being dressed in African tribal gear when in Africa on a visit.
Yea there are some children that are not enthralled by the blessing. But who are you or anyone else to judge why a parent attempts inclusion for his/her child. Yea some children behave improperly, (at least in your way of thinking) but is it better to leave a 4 year old unattended in a pew while mom goes to communion?

The Church and the Mass have survived almost 2000 years in spite of all these “offenses” And IMHO, absent something universally considered sacrilege, it will till the end of time. So why not simply attend Mass, concentrate on your interplay with the Lord, and not worry about something as insignificant as a five year old standing respectfully before his Lord, who he will be able to receive in a short time?

 

[Mtdobbs]

In this respect I would like to mention one demonstration dictated by fraternal charity and marked by deep clarity of faith which made a profound impression on me. I am speaking of the Eucharistic celebrations at which I presided in Finland and Sweden during my journey to the Scandinavian and Nordic countries. At Communion time, the Lutheran Bishops approached the celebrant. They wished, by means of an agreed gesture, to demonstrate their desire for that time when we, Catholics and Lutherans, will be able to share the same Eucharist, and they wished to receive the celebrant’s blessing. With love I blessed them.

Saint John Paul 2 during a special ceremony
encyclical “Ut Unum Sint,” no. 72
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25051995_ut-unum-sint.html

 

[Mtdobbs]

“Even though some in the assembly may not receive ‘sacramental’ Communion, all are united in some way by the Holy Spirit. The Traditional idea of spiritual communion is an important one to remember and re-affirm. The invitation often given at Mass to those who may not receive sacramental communion — for example, children before their first communion and adults who are not Catholics — to receive a ‘blessing’ at the moment of Communion emphasizes that a deep spiritual communion is possible even when we do not share together the Sacrament of the Body and blood of Christ” (the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales)

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The invitation often given at Mass to those who may not receive sacramental communion — for example, children before their first communion and adults who are not Catholics — to receive a ‘blessing’ at the moment of Communion emphasizes that a deep spiritual communion is possible even when we do not share together the Sacrament of the Body and blood of Christ” (the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales)

It seems like this is a much bigger deal in countries like England and Germany where apparently there is some issue with the fact that Catholics do not let non-Catholics receive Catholic Communion. (The way to solve that problem is easy…join the Catholic Church…but I digress.)

As others have said, the priest blesses everybody in the church at the end of the Mass, which is only a few short minutes after Communion time. I don’t see a reason for needing to bless non-Catholics during Communion specifically to make some show of unity right at that moment instead of a couple minutes later at the end when everyone is blessed in community as a group, which is also a more unified blessing as all receive it at once.

 

[stpurl]

How ‘faithful’ is a person who will not adhere to ‘rules and regulations’? Who gets to decide what ‘rule’ can be obeyed and what can be thrown out?

 

[stpurl]

You know what’s sad? Somebody who stoops to slurs (tradcats) and virtue-shaming all because he thinks that someone who is concerned about obedience cannot possibly be other than 'trying to stomp out ‘mercy’. That’s what’s sad.

 

[Mtdobbs]

What is virtue shaming? I don’t think I’ve ever heard that one. I thought virtues were a good thing !

 

[Mtdobbs]

How faithful were the disciples who didn’t adhere to the rules and regulations of the sabbath by picking the heads of grain to eat?

 

[stpurl]

It is neither wrong, rigid, nor unmerciful to make the factual statement that it is not necessary for a person who is not receiving the Eucharist to go up in a communion line to ‘receive a blessing’.

 

[joeybaggz]

You know what’s sad? Somebody who stoops to slurs (tradcats) and virtue-shaming all because he thinks that someone who is concerned about obedience cannot possibly be other than 'trying to stomp out ‘mercy’. That’s what’s sad.

One, tradcats isn’t a slur. (Unless of course one isn’t comfortable with traditional Catholic positions) Traditional Catholic as in one who prefers older styles of worship and practices and teachings of generations past.

How ‘faithful’ is a person who will not adhere to ‘rules and regulations’? Who gets to decide what ‘rule’ can be obeyed and what can be thrown out?

Let’s see, a woman caught in the act of adultery which was punishable by the “rules” in that she should be stoned to death actually survived the mob because a certain Nazorean carpenter ……… need I really go on?

Children and even some adults wish to stand before their Lord and receive a simple blessing, and those fire breathing, rule citing, Catholics find this supremely disobedient. I’d use the word Pharisee in this discussion but I don’t want to offend those I have already offended. Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy, we say at mass. Glad we don’t include the laity, seems there are a bunch for whom mercy takes a back seat to obedience to the rules.

 

[stpurl]

It is not, and never has been, a contest between ‘rules’ and mercy.

Frankly, your attempt to make it so–and of course, to come down square footed on the side of “forget the RULES, just be mercy/nice” may help you feel good about yourself, but has nothing to do with the actual post/subject.

It is not, and never has been, required for a person who is not receiving the Eucharist to get in the communion line for a blessing.

It is, and always has been, a reprehensible practice to try to set up ‘rules’ in opposition to ‘love’, as if they are mutually exclusive.

It is, and always has been, a Catholic teaching that obedience is a virtue, and disobedience a sin.

I am not saying that Joe Pewsitter and his 3 year old who go up and ‘ask for a blessing’ are bad, disobedient, should be shunned, scolded etc. That’s what YOU say I say, it is not what I actually say or have said.

I am saying that while Joe Pewsitter and his 3 year old --and the priest (note that the EMHCs cannot give a blessing) may be in compliance with the bishop, or may be sincerely, but erroneously, thinking that this is a good practice, and by ‘good’ I mean they think it is addressing a ‘lack’ (though it does not as Joe and his 3 year old are already going to get a blessing at the end of Mass, that Joe, and the 3 year old, never have, and never will be, required to get a blessing in the communion line if they are unable to receive.

And I’m saying that people who go around and start calling people who simply state the facts are rigid, hateful, unmerciful, etc., etc. are absolutely mistaken.

 

[Reuben_J]

Mtdobbs:

I have talked to more people who are “moved” by the humility of those who go before the priest with their arms crossed, basically letting the whole congregation know that like the soldier in scripture “Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof “

It is plenty humble to stay in your pew while everyone else goes up. Also, why can’t people who go up to receive also get a blessing? I’d love a personal blessing.

I will not get into a debate of whether people should go up for blessing or not, or about the mass’ stance regarding this, but I agree with you. Been saying this before; it is nice to see kids coming up with their mothers, sometimes fathers, grandmothers, crossing their arms on their chest and got blessed. I often thought about Jesus saying, “do not stop these little ones from coming to me.”

When these kids will became adults, they will speak like many of us here about their childhood experience except that they had received blessing during Communion because they were not big enough to recieve.

We often talked about our own experience.