Unbaptized Babies

[aball1035]

Where do they go?

If Limbo, what is it? I heard it’s a place in Hell but with no suffering. However they don’t get to see God.

Are there any infallible statements or doctrines on this?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

From the Catechism:

1261
As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

 

[kristie_m]

My understanding of Limbo, (and please note, this is only *my understanding *of it for as little or as much as that is worth) is that it is a place of bliss, but without the Beautific vision…so I wouldn’t picture it as hell without suffering. Though, honestly, it’s not a belief that I personally subscribe to, as I hope that God would allow for say, the unborn and other unbaptised infants to be fully in His presence.

Limbo is an acceptable belief, but is not a “big T” teaching, if that makes sense. You won’t find any infallible statements on it, because it’s an acceptable belief, not a required one.

Hope that helps.

 

[Jesus_123]

+The Lord blessed my life for many years with work as a church secretary . . . and the only portion of Sacred Scripture . . . *(that I, personally, have ever heard of) *. . . which actually deals specifically with this subject . . . *(and it is actually very positive eternally speaking) *. . . is found in the Old Testament and deals with the passing of King David’s infant son . . .

"And he said,
While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept for him:
for I said,
Who knoweth whether the Lord may not give him to me,
and the child may live?
But now that he is dead, why should I fast?
Shall I be able to bring him back any more?
I shall go to him rather,
but he shall not return to me.
And David comforted Bethsabee, his wife …
II Samuel 12:22-24a
:bible1:

The . . . very real . . . and very simple . . . little phrase in the above portion of Sacred Scripture . . . "I shall go to him rather" . . . spoken by the great Psalmist of God . . . King David himself . . . who contributed . . . vast amounts . . . of Sacred Scripture to our Holy Bible . . . is often used . . .in times of the death of an infant . . . and it is frequently used by the Church in comforting the families of those who have lost an infant . . . and as far as I know it is the only Scripture that directly speaks to the . . . eternal destination . . . and . . . eternal life . . . of the infant child . . . it seems to blend in beautiful harmony with our Lord’s command . . .

“But Jesus said to them,
Suffer the little children, and forbid them not
to come unto me:
for the kingdom of heaven is for such.”
Matthew 19:14
:bible1:

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Blessed Lord+​

 

[scameter]

I would certainly say that in God’s unimaginable mercy and love, as well as His perfect and omniscient reason, He would not send a baby who didn’t have a chance to be baptized to Hell or Purgatory. I think the real problem with baptized babies is almost moreso for their parents. If the parent has the opportunity to baptize their baby, and they don’t, the problem is theirs, not the baby’s. Not that a baby shouldn’t be baptized; of course it should. But a baby can’t help what’s done to it, and only something done with intention is a mortal (i.e., Hell-worthy) sin.

 

[Jesus_123]

From the Catechism:

1261
As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” 64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

I love that our wonderful Lord has given us The Catechism of the Catholic Church . . . *through our Holy Mother Church *. . . what a wonderful comfort and gracious gift for this particularly difficult day and age we live in . . . During morning prayers this a.m. my thoughts turned again to this thread . . . and later . . . when I sat down at the computer and glanced down at the Holy Bible open on my computer desk . . . I read the following Scripture . . .

"Even so it is not the will of your Father,
who is in heaven,
that one of these little ones should perish.”
Matthew 18:14
:bible1:
***+ Thank You Lord . . . to God be the Glory + ***

Then I felt led to go to the Catechism section referenced in the above Catechism quote . . . to check the Scripture references for the section on Baptism . . . and found this lovely portion in the Bible . . . which again reflects our ***Lord’s Blessed Sacred Heart’s ***deep and profound . . . everlasting . . . love for children . . .

*:bible1: And they brought to him young children, that he might touch them. And the disciples rebuked them that brought them. Whom when Jesus saw, he was much displeased, and saith to them: **Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of God. Amen I say to you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, shall not enter into it. *And embracing them, and laying his hands upon them, he blessed them." Mark 10:13-16


As far as “limbo” is concerned . . . I have heard discussions on EWTN in particular . . . that the Church is no longer promulgating any belief in limbo . . . the reason being that there is nothing in Sacred Scripture or Sacred Tradition which gives any foundation whatsoever for belief in such a place . . . You might contact Father Mitch Pacwa for further information on this . . . he has a website . . .

ignatiusproductions.org/frmitch/?page_id=3

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Blessed Lord+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+
. . . thank you SuscipeMeDomine+​

 

[Old_Timer_Catho]

I am sixty six years old and reared under the teachings of the Church pre Vatican II. The instructions I received at that time stated that Limbo was a “place” where the souls of the unbaptised sinless ( other then Origional Sin) and ( through no fault of their own) would be held without suffering or access to the Beatific Vision till the end of time. At that time there would remain only Heaven and Hell and that through the Mercy of God these souls would be granted access to Heaven and the Beatific Vision.

 

[aball1035]

I am sixty six years old and reared under the teachings of the Church pre Vatican II. The instructions I received at that time stated that Limbo was a “place” where the souls of the unbaptised sinless ( other then Origional Sin) and ( through no fault of their own) would be held without suffering or access to the Beatific Vision till the end of time. At that time there would remain only Heaven and Hell and that through the Mercy of God these souls would be granted access to Heaven and the Beatific Vision.

The problem I have with that is I don’t see why they get a ‘free’ trip to Heaven. But maybe my thinking’s off. I don’t know.

 

[Jesus_123]

The problem I have with that is I don’t see why they get a ‘free’ trip to Heaven. But maybe my thinking’s off. I don’t know.

“O blood and Water, which gushed forth
from the Heart of Jesus as a fount of mercy for us,
I trust in You.”

Diary, Entry #84
St. Faustina Kowalska​

​

:compcoff: I hope your above comment . . . isn’t . . . your actual frame of mind regarding this subject . . . but is . . . rather . . . a realization of a potential question which might arise . . . *given the information so graciously submitted in answer to the focused original subject of your thread *. . . ? . . .

:bible1: The Prodigal Son’s Brother

“26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant. 27 And he said to him: Thy brother is come, and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe.

---

*+ Truth . . . without love ***. . . is cruelty +

28 And he was angry, and would not go in. His father therefore coming out began to entreat him. 29 And he answering, said to his father: Behold, for so many years do I serve thee, and I have never transgressed thy commandment, and yet thou hast never given me a kid to make merry with my friends: 30 But as soon as this thy son is come, who hath devoured his substance with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

+ Love . . . without truth . . . is hypocrisy +
____________

“31 But he said to him: Son, thou art always with me, and all I have is thine. 32 But it was fit that we should make merry and be glad, for this thy brother was dead and is come to life again; he was lost, and is found.” **

Luke 15:26-32**

---

**Commentary . . .

** The Prodigal Son’s . . . **brother’s reaction **. . . to his returned brother’s homecoming . . . and their loving Father’s joy and reaction of loving welcome and celebratory loving care of his . . . *returned son *. . . weakened, broken and ill from the ravages of sin . . . reveals a . . . bitterness, cruelty and coldness of heart . . . within the prodigal son’s . . . **brother’s soul **. . . toward . . . both . . . his Father . . . (who also represents God within the household) . . . and . . . his brother . . . (who also represents his closest neighbor within the household) . . .

There have been many dissertations about the Prodigal son . . . but the revelation of the . . .** “other son’s”** . . . wound of original sin and its dark fruit within his soul . . . is rarely discussed . . . and frequently is just passed over as non-essential to the parable . . . But this is the time . . . in the revelation of Sacred Scripture . . . God reveals to us the Prodigal Son’s . . . brother’s . . . sin-state and very real separation from . . . “God Who is Love” . . . *and his need for salvation . . . and for a Saviour . . . *

****It reveals . . . ****

• His dishonoring of his earthly father’s loving heart . . . thereby breaking the Fourth Commandment: * **“Honor thy Father and Thy Mother, that thou mayest be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee.” *** Exodus 20:12; :bible1:
• By dishonoring his Father . . . who represents God in their household . . . this clearly shows that he does NOT have God as his First Love . . . thereby breaking the First Commandment: ***“And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment.” ***Mark 12:30 :bible1:
• And by not loving his brother . . . who represents his closest known neighbor in his life . . . he thereby breaks the Second Commandment: *** “And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these.” ***Mark 12:31 :bible1:

The Catechism of The Catholic Church
1863
:coffeeread: “… Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul’s progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. …

‘While he is in the flesh, man cannot help but have at least some light sins. But do not despise these sins which we call “light”: if you take them for light when you weigh them, tremble when you count them. A number of light objects makes a great mass; a number of drops fills a river; a number of grains makes a heap. What then is our hope? Above all, confession. . . . 135

"You expired, Jesus, but the source of life gushed forth for souls and the ocean of mercy opened up for the whole world. O Fount of Life, unfathomable Divine Mercy, envelop the whole world and empty Yourself out upon us."

Diary, Entry #1319
St. Faustina Kowalska

**“Jesus saith to him:
I am the way, the truth, and the life:
No man cometh to the Father, but by me.” **
Matthew 14:6
:bible1:

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank you Blessed Lord+​

 

[Dismas2004]

My understanding of Limbo, (and please note, this is only *my understanding *of it for as little or as much as that is worth) is that it is a place of bliss, but without the Beautific vision…so I wouldn’t picture it as hell without suffering. Though, honestly, it’s not a belief that I personally subscribe to, as I hope that God would allow for say, the unborn and other unbaptised infants to be fully in His presence.

Limbo is an acceptable belief, but is not a “big T” teaching, if that makes sense. You won’t find any infallible statements on it, because it’s an acceptable belief, not a required one.

Hope that helps.

Just an FYI - Limbo is not official Catholic teaching. It’s a teaching of theology that is not universally accepted nor has it been approved or disapproved by the Church. However - the fact that there are some serious flaws in the theology of Limbo and many well respected theologians disagree with it - I doubt it will ever be official teaching. As a matter of fact - seminaries don’t teach it anymore. It was a proposition a long time ago that is being held more alive by people hostile to the Catholic church more so than by those within the Church.

Children have a lot easier access to heaven because they are incapable of the will to commit sin nor are the capable of committing grave acts (generally speaking). The heavens are full of little children praying for us and singing praises to Jesus Christ.

 

[Seatuck]

Here’s the latest church discussion on limbo for infants-

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

Limbo can refer two to things- This part of the teaching is de fide.
Limbo of the fathers (limbus patrum) which is the place where the jews who died in friendship with God prior to Christ opening the gates of heaven went.

and

Limbo of the infants.(limbus infantium)–a place in the hem or fringe of hell where the babies exhisted in a state of natural happiness but did not see the face of God( beatific vision). This part was a theological construct to try to make sense of something we really don’t have enough revelation for.