Unbaptized Christians?

[Denise1957]

According to the CCC of the Catholic Church—the Sacraments are:

1116 Sacraments are “powers that comes forth” from the Body of Christ,33 which is ever-living and life-giving. They are actions of the Holy Spirit at work in his Body, the Church. They are “the masterworks of God” in the new and everlasting covenant.

Publisher sets forth another definition and people should not be confused by his interpretations.

Furthermore, he says that he believes that the Sacraments are not instituted by Jesus Christ.

The CCC says:

1114 “Adhering to the teaching of the Holy Scriptures, to the apostolic traditions, and to the consensus . . . of the Fathers,” we profess that "the sacraments of the new law were . . . all instituted by Jesus Christ our Lord."31

You are welcome to give him a free pass if you like–but I feel he is misleading–perhaps intentionally…perhaps not.

What you’ve written here is very important regarding the sacraments being instituted by Jesus Christ our Lord. I think there’s a tendency among non-Catholics to see Jesus, in scripture, as being someone who just walked around, healing people and preaching.

A Protestant family member once told me that she thought that the use of ‘empty ritual’ wasn’t necessary at all. I thought about trying to explain the importance of ritual, but couldn’t find the right words, and she probably wouldn’t have been interested anyway. Her mind was made up. That ritual is unneccessary is quite prevalent among non-Catholics.

I think that some non-Catholics feel that all they really need is an initial connection with Jesus, which may include reading the Bible, and accepting Jesus as Lord. Kind of like getting connected to the internet. Once you have an internet connection, you’re good to go, and you can access the internet anytime you like. Why would anyone need ritual to do that? Okay, that’s a bad analogy, but the only one I can think of at the moment!

 

[Mickey]

What you’ve written here is very important regarding the sacraments being instituted by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Thank you Denise.

Commenting on the real presence of the divine energies in the holy mysteries/sacraments, St. John of Damascus notes the following:
“But if you inquire as to how this takes place, it is enough for you to know that it is effected by the Holy Spirit. The manner of the change can in no way be understood. But one can put it well thus, that just as in nature, bread, by eating, and wine and water, by drinking, are changed into the body and blood of the eater and drinker, yet not becoming a different body from the former one; so the bread of the Table, as also the wine and water, are supernaturally changed by the incovation and presence of the Holy Spirit into the Body and Blood of Christ, and are not two, but one and the same.”

 

[GaryTaylor]

According to the CCC of the Catholic Church—the Sacraments are:

1116 Sacraments are “powers that comes forth” from the Body of Christ,33 which is ever-living and life-giving. They are actions of the Holy Spirit at work in his Body, the Church. They are “the masterworks of God” in the new and everlasting covenant.

Publisher sets forth another definition and people should not be confused by his interpretations.

Furthermore, he says that he believes that the Sacraments are not instituted by Jesus Christ.

The CCC says:

1114 “Adhering to the teaching of the Holy Scriptures, to the apostolic traditions, and to the consensus . . . of the Fathers,” we profess that "the sacraments of the new law were . . . all instituted by Jesus Christ our Lord."31

You are welcome to give him a free pass if you like–but I feel he is misleading–perhaps intentionally…perhaps not.

Great post Mick,

Hey look I’m not here to judge this man. and I admit he seems like a likable individual. But lets face it, the road to hell was paved with good intentions?

God Bless, Gary

 

[meltzerboy]

Great post Mick,

Hey look I’m not here to judge this man. and I admit he seems like a likable individual. But lets face it, the road to hell was paved with good intentions?

God Bless, Gary

Gary, that’s the Quaker way! Most Friends consider themselves Christians (perhaps not all: Publisher would know better) despite the fact some other Christians may not. I see your concern but doubt most Christians would be “led astray” by the Quaker belief. It’s similar to us Reform Jews, who regard ourselves as practicing Judaism even though many of our Orthodox brothers say no and call us heretics.

 

[Publisher]

Gary, that’s the Quaker way! Most Friends consider themselves Christians (perhaps not all: Publisher would know better) despite the fact some other Christians may not. I see your concern but doubt most Christians would be “led astray” by the Quaker belief. It’s similar to us Reform Jews, who regard ourselves as practicing Judaism even though many of our Orthodox brothers say no and call us heretics.

Yes friend…I consider myself a Christian regardless of how others view me…I stand in need of the grace and mercy of God…I seek to honor “that of God” in each of us…most Friends do consider themselves Christian…the largest group of Friends is no longer in America and Britan…but in South America and Africa.

Friends have found “convincements” among the Amayra Indians of Bolivia…my wife and I were at one time going to work in the Friends School down there…but “life happened” and plans changed.

 

[C_the_K]

My family is composed largely of Quakers, who see the sacraments as mere disposable symbols.

What do you mean by disposable symbol?

I know its off topic but my knowledge of Quakers is limited are Friends, Quakers Trinitarian?

 

[AlwaysCurious]

AlwaysCurious;7908310:

My family is composed largely of Quakers, who see the sacraments as mere disposable symbols.

What do you mean by disposable symbol?

I know its off topic but my knowledge of Quakers is limited are Friends, Quakers Trinitarian?

By disposable symbol, I mean something “outward” that you can use if it helps you in your faith life, but if not, then it’s not necessary. The spiritual reality is what matters; the physical aspect is more or less a distraction and is better left out unless you personally “need” it. That’s what I was taught. (Sounds a little Manichean, doesn’t it?)

Catholic teaching about the Incarnation really helped turn that around for me.

Some Quakers are Trinitarian and some are not. Some consider themselves Christian and some do not. I know some who strive to be the best disciples of Christ they can be with the knowledge they have; I have met others who openly mock Jesus. Quakerism is pretty…elastic.

 

[Mickey]

(Sounds a little Manichean, doesn’t it?)

Yes.

 

[Publisher]

AlwaysCurious;7908310:

My family is composed largely of Quakers, who see the sacraments as mere disposable symbols.

What do you mean by disposable symbol?

I know its off topic but my knowledge of Quakers is limited are Friends, Quakers Trinitarian?

While most Friends would embrace a “Trinitarian” concept…we are “non-creedal”…in as far as the creeds assist the individual Friend in “forming” an “understandable” concept of Diety…Friends tend not to embrace creeds.