B
Benjamin8o8
Guest
Its only logic that Athiest deep inside believe in a higher power, I mean how can life just pop out of nowhere?
- Status
A
always_gr8ful
Guest
“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
~Robert Jastrow Astronomer, Physicist, Cosmologist and self-proclaimed atheist
“Then we shall… be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of God.”
~Stephen Hawking
~Robert Jastrow Astronomer, Physicist, Cosmologist and self-proclaimed atheist
“Then we shall… be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of God.”
~Stephen Hawking
A
always_gr8ful
Guest
So true, Benjamin! To believe in nothing, they would have to have more FAITH then we do.
A
always_gr8ful
Guest
Humm…Bus advertising all over London and Canada, billboards in the eastern US. What is your definition of evangelizing?
Atheism is a religion like any other. Richard Dawkins is your god or guru, your church fellowship are the numerous atheist sites online and your bible is “Origin of the Species”. Ah ha ha, I crack myself up sometimes.
You know I’m just funnin’ with you.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
I think it’s quite legitimate to ask if you are happy. We are of different religions/belief. I don’t know about atheist, but would not happiness be important to you? If not, why are you here? Obviously many people here are looking for happiness, contentment in life and care about certain things. Aren’t you?
As for me, a search for happiness, contentment and inner peace is a rather long journey. In retrospective I can only say that I am happier now than before. Before I did not know God but now I can say that I am closer to Him and knew Him better. Actually then I did not know what was happiness or inner peace. They did not cross my mind nor I was bothered with having them or not. I did not experience them and I did not know what I was missing until I truly experience them now; by the grace of God.
Therefore to me happiness is quite an elusive thing. But I do not believe that non-Christians could not achieve happiness just because I did not when I did not have God in my heart before. So it is interesting to know from your perspective if you want to share with us – are you happy? And how is it? Do you have the inner peace in you? Or do you, like most of us before, experience that emptiness that nothing can truly fills? Do you get angry often or are you able to forgive people who do you wrong? Does disagreement bother you? They did for me before but now somehow I have risen above these and I have only God to thank for.
So it is interesting to hear of other path that can achieve the same result. Thus the question. It is not to say that we are superbly perfect in our life but on the other hand we cannot deny that we are the better for having knowing God and has Him in our life.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
":
Some people have reached into a level where happiness transcends the physical experience. Normally human set out to fulfill the desire of the flesh – the senses, namely, sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch. We are satisfied and happy if we look nice, hearing flatter or soothing music, eating sumptuous food and living in comfortable surrounding. Others however see these as short term solution to the basic human problem. Despite having these they are still not satisfied – so there is no end to satisfy the desire of the flesh if one’s inner need is not fulfilled.
So it’s true too, outwardly it may be miserable but inwardly the person may experience the peace of his mind. Some people see the meaning of life further than just the physical.
In an average human experience you are right. But with God it’s never average.
Some people have reached into a level where happiness transcends the physical experience. Normally human set out to fulfill the desire of the flesh – the senses, namely, sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch. We are satisfied and happy if we look nice, hearing flatter or soothing music, eating sumptuous food and living in comfortable surrounding. Others however see these as short term solution to the basic human problem. Despite having these they are still not satisfied – so there is no end to satisfy the desire of the flesh if one’s inner need is not fulfilled.
So it’s true too, outwardly it may be miserable but inwardly the person may experience the peace of his mind. Some people see the meaning of life further than just the physical.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
In Christianity there is a saying that says, “There is joy in suffering”. How can that be? It does not make sense. But there are people who testify to that and know it is true by the experience they have. Would atheist understand this? I don’t think so nor did I believe that could possibly happen. I did not experience and so I did not know.Then.
C
cerad
Guest
It’s encouraging to find out that you have rejected the notion that a god could just “pop” Adam and Eve into existence. The question now becomes: Are you willing to invest a small amount of time to learn what science has to say on the subject? You might be surprised.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
So this is about science, how naive of me. An age old argument - but it must be decided and traced who made it possible for science to happen. We can go all the way to the Big Bang, but ultimately who made them to happen. I’d go for the ‘pop’ dust particles that formed what it needed to bang.
So I guess happiness, contentment in life and inner peace do not really matter here. Anyway, it’s an education. At least we know this much about atheism.
J
Jamison97
Guest
Indeed! Amen to you, brother!
G
GraceDK
Guest
humble_in_doubt.
humble in doubt… hmm?
I** went the opposite direction. I was once a religious zealot (I mean hard core, practically a fanatic). I studied theology for years, was involved with the church, the whole nine yards. Then one day I began to question things (that is as I grew more intelligent and reason began to overpower myth in my mind). I soon realized that religion is just myth and fantasy. **
It occurs to me that you mention words like fanatism, zealot, theology, church etc. But you fail to mention Christ. How can that be? Have you ever truly loved Christ? Have you sought His face and His peace in days of hardship, wept on His heart, told Him all your dreams, smiled at Him and praised Him in the beauty? Heard His clear words to you? If you have not, then your fanatism was a fanatism of theories without the Living Spirit.
No god has ever shown himself to man. Why is that this god of yours has never manifested himself in a provable way to modern man, yet visited our ancient counterparts quite frequently (in ways that all on earth couldn’t help but to notice he was there)? This is the same for every religion, and of course there’s always a profound reason why these gods don’t appear to us today.
What you really mean is: “God never showed himself to me” and “gods dont appear to me today”. Jesus Christ was very human and was in the Flesh. He loved, suffered, died and resurrected. The disciples could touch Him and see Him.
What is proof to you? To me God’s existence is very evident and much more so than your theory. You have become disapointed perhaps, because God didn’t fall into line with your demands of Him.
And it might not be your fault but the fault of a desert-congregation… I cannot know.
I have met people who were healed in the last stages of cancer in the Name of Jesus, people that were blind but now see, whose limbs were deformed that were suddenly healed through prayer, people who were healed even from severe mental illnesses (I talk about physical and neurological miracles here) A friend of mine even knows someone who was raised from the dead in the name of Jesus… then there are the visions… I know more people than I can count who SAW Jesus, others yet who saw an angel (or many), others yet who saw the Virgin Mary. All these people are normal people and sound of mind… they all have one thing in common… they have suffered and learned humilty. Just like its written about Jesus in the Bible… I am sure you are familiar with the passage.
Then there are huge public miracles… testimonies of mass-visions like the ones in Egypt, Fatima/Portugal 1917 (which religious scientists are soo afraid to even look into) Medjugorje and so many others throughout history and until today. Read and hear testimonies… The list is endless.
You have never felt the Holy Spirit. Never been liberated, never felt the concrete power of confession… never been transformed and litterally lifted into a new life?
No, you fail to know what you are talking about.
First century Christians were waiting around for the world to end. During the time of Galileo the CC thought the bible revealed an earth at the center of the universe. Well, the earth is not the center of the universe & the world didn’t end in the first century?
Again… dare you speak of Christ and His claims or will you beat around the bush? Who do you say that He is? The Church has made many blunders… but it does not make Christ a liar.
**Religion had to keep coming up with profound reasons why god doesn’t appear to modern man. It was in their interest after all to keep a good thing going (good for them that is). This is the truth … you can believe it or not (I’m not really here to change any ones point of view, since frankly I have no real interest in shaping your beliefs). **
You are just angry because against all your own made up odds, atheism is still a total minority… God is still worshipped and He will be until the end of time and there is not a thing you can do about it.
**So I ask what is religion? It’s just a compilation of ancient myths conflated with rather old and outdated philosophical concepts (mostly proved incorrect by empirical evidence). This I believe is the objective truth. **
Empirical science is about natural laws that can be tested again and again, things measurable and mathematical. True scientists are the first to admit that their field has a different area of analysis than theology and philosophy do. A distinction you fail to make, like so many other atheists, why your beliefs are just that…
Am I any happier now than when I was Christian … much happier actually.
No wonder man… I feel sorry for people who stick around with a bunch of head-theories and have nothing to do with real living relationship with Jesus Christ… Its just not worth the time and energy and its plain old boring.
I, in turn, am happier now than when I didn’t know the living Christ. Life has become ever so interesting, meaningful and full of joy and amazement… Since before I didnt know who I was, neither did I know my worth nor the true nature of human life and the importance of my personal moral choices. I now have peace where I was empty. Love has answered all my questions and continues to answer.
humble in doubt… hmm?
I** went the opposite direction. I was once a religious zealot (I mean hard core, practically a fanatic). I studied theology for years, was involved with the church, the whole nine yards. Then one day I began to question things (that is as I grew more intelligent and reason began to overpower myth in my mind). I soon realized that religion is just myth and fantasy. **
It occurs to me that you mention words like fanatism, zealot, theology, church etc. But you fail to mention Christ. How can that be? Have you ever truly loved Christ? Have you sought His face and His peace in days of hardship, wept on His heart, told Him all your dreams, smiled at Him and praised Him in the beauty? Heard His clear words to you? If you have not, then your fanatism was a fanatism of theories without the Living Spirit.
No god has ever shown himself to man. Why is that this god of yours has never manifested himself in a provable way to modern man, yet visited our ancient counterparts quite frequently (in ways that all on earth couldn’t help but to notice he was there)? This is the same for every religion, and of course there’s always a profound reason why these gods don’t appear to us today.
What you really mean is: “God never showed himself to me” and “gods dont appear to me today”. Jesus Christ was very human and was in the Flesh. He loved, suffered, died and resurrected. The disciples could touch Him and see Him.
What is proof to you? To me God’s existence is very evident and much more so than your theory. You have become disapointed perhaps, because God didn’t fall into line with your demands of Him.
And it might not be your fault but the fault of a desert-congregation… I cannot know.
I have met people who were healed in the last stages of cancer in the Name of Jesus, people that were blind but now see, whose limbs were deformed that were suddenly healed through prayer, people who were healed even from severe mental illnesses (I talk about physical and neurological miracles here) A friend of mine even knows someone who was raised from the dead in the name of Jesus… then there are the visions… I know more people than I can count who SAW Jesus, others yet who saw an angel (or many), others yet who saw the Virgin Mary. All these people are normal people and sound of mind… they all have one thing in common… they have suffered and learned humilty. Just like its written about Jesus in the Bible… I am sure you are familiar with the passage.
Then there are huge public miracles… testimonies of mass-visions like the ones in Egypt, Fatima/Portugal 1917 (which religious scientists are soo afraid to even look into) Medjugorje and so many others throughout history and until today. Read and hear testimonies… The list is endless.
You have never felt the Holy Spirit. Never been liberated, never felt the concrete power of confession… never been transformed and litterally lifted into a new life?
No, you fail to know what you are talking about.
First century Christians were waiting around for the world to end. During the time of Galileo the CC thought the bible revealed an earth at the center of the universe. Well, the earth is not the center of the universe & the world didn’t end in the first century?
Again… dare you speak of Christ and His claims or will you beat around the bush? Who do you say that He is? The Church has made many blunders… but it does not make Christ a liar.
**Religion had to keep coming up with profound reasons why god doesn’t appear to modern man. It was in their interest after all to keep a good thing going (good for them that is). This is the truth … you can believe it or not (I’m not really here to change any ones point of view, since frankly I have no real interest in shaping your beliefs). **
You are just angry because against all your own made up odds, atheism is still a total minority… God is still worshipped and He will be until the end of time and there is not a thing you can do about it.
**So I ask what is religion? It’s just a compilation of ancient myths conflated with rather old and outdated philosophical concepts (mostly proved incorrect by empirical evidence). This I believe is the objective truth. **
Empirical science is about natural laws that can be tested again and again, things measurable and mathematical. True scientists are the first to admit that their field has a different area of analysis than theology and philosophy do. A distinction you fail to make, like so many other atheists, why your beliefs are just that…
Am I any happier now than when I was Christian … much happier actually.
No wonder man… I feel sorry for people who stick around with a bunch of head-theories and have nothing to do with real living relationship with Jesus Christ… Its just not worth the time and energy and its plain old boring.
I, in turn, am happier now than when I didn’t know the living Christ. Life has become ever so interesting, meaningful and full of joy and amazement… Since before I didnt know who I was, neither did I know my worth nor the true nature of human life and the importance of my personal moral choices. I now have peace where I was empty. Love has answered all my questions and continues to answer.
J
josie_L
Guest
Is it because now you can sin without feeling guilty?
C
Ceil-1
Guest
How would an unbeliever know religion is a myth? Have they seen the other side? Or are they just too insensitive and self-centered to bother thinking about it, or seeing it?
Happiness in a worldly sense depends on one controlling one’s destiny. Tell this to my patient with Lou Gerhig’s disease. What is the meaning of her miserable existence with a slow, agonizing death? Give me you wisdom, know-it-alls. Or, is it you just couldn’t care less about anybody else to give these things a thought? Hmmmm…
Happiness in a worldly sense depends on one controlling one’s destiny. Tell this to my patient with Lou Gerhig’s disease. What is the meaning of her miserable existence with a slow, agonizing death? Give me you wisdom, know-it-alls. Or, is it you just couldn’t care less about anybody else to give these things a thought? Hmmmm…
H
humble_in_doubt
Guest
so you’re saying if someone doesn’t believe as you do they are insensitive and self-centered? Let me ask you this, what was the last thing you did for another person, your community, or your country? Aren’t you being insensitive by categorizing an entire group of people as insensitive?
How do you know religion is NOT a myth? Have YOU ever seen the other side? I bet no because you’re trapped by superstition.
I would give you wisdom, that is if I could figure out what the heck you’re talking about? I will say this … it certainly sounds you’re in need of wisdomHappiness in a worldly sense depends on one controlling one’s destiny. Tell this to my patient with Lou Gerhig’s disease. What is the meaning of her miserable existence with a slow, agonizing death? Give me you wisdom, know-it-alls. Or, is it you just couldn’t care less about anybody else to give these things a thought? Hmmmm…
H
humble_in_doubt
Guest
well I could have been protestant if that was my goal. No, in fact I don’t sin very often (probably much less than the average Christian). Why, because I have self-control (at least a good dose of it anyway).
I’m disciplined enough to have served my country successfully, earn a graduate degree, and so on. In fact I’ve only had one traffic ticket in like the last ten years. I rarely drink (but I do on occasion), etc. etc. So I guess lack of guilt for sin isn’t quite it.
What I suspect is that it’s because I no longer look to some higher power when things go wrong or when they go right. I look to myself, because I am the only one to blame when I screw up, just like I’m the only one due credit when I do things right. This is called self responsibility.
You will go and tell some priest your sins, and that’s fine I suppose if it makes you feel better. It never really made me feel any different (and I’ve sat in that confessional many times). I suppose if you psychology convince yourself that a god exists and that he gave you a specific church & all you have to is follow the scriptures of their doctrine to acquire forgiveness and alleviate guilt; perhaps it can work for you. As for me, I figure if I don’t screw up I won’t need to feel bad about anything I do. No excuses, no fictitious forgiveness from some invisible power who really isn’t there.
However, if you want to say the bible is a pretty good road map for life … I might agree (with some exceptions). Forgiveness is a good thing, and we should forgive others (as we would expect or at least desire to be forgiven). At least when you frame it like that it has tangible value. In other words what good is it praying to something that doesn’t exist. Shouldn’t I make amends to those I’ve wronged (since I know, quantitatively speaking, they do exist)? Even humility is a valuable virtue. After all we can’t know it all right? Therefore, humility allows us to learn (if we think we know more about everything than everyone else, then we’ll never open our mind to learning new things).
IMO it’s Christians who are generally arrogant (though there are certainly arrogant atheists out there). You guys believe you’re right and no one else can be. I’m not shackled by such a fallacious belief.
H
humble_in_doubt
Guest
what you’re referring to is merely psychology delusion. Anyone can convince themselves of anything. A good psychological disposition even manifests in good physical health (so there is substantial untapped power in the human mind).
this is just typical religion diatribe. No god has ever appeared to man. What you’re referring to is mythology, not provable fact.
I can assure you it wasn’t some invisible god who healed these people. They just willed themselves better (and it happens all the time, among the religious and non-religious alike). In addition … they got lucky (and probably had good doctors).
these were atmospheric events readily explainable by science. Just as the 67 people who recovered from their illnesses at Lourdes (it’s peculiar that the church never tells what happened the hundreds of thousands of other believing Catholics who went to Lourdes to be healed). Just a normal statistical occurrence, nothing more nothing less.
ahhh, I love how religious zealots toss around the word “dare”?
I suppose you would like to think I’m an angry person (and that only Catholics can be happy). I call that attitude bigotry. As for the rest of it … we’ll have wait & see right?
and I sort of feel sorry for people who base their entire lives on a myth. So there we stand!
good for you …
J
josie_L
Guest
I hope I didn’t insult you with that question, I just wanted to understand your motives for leaving God, and I thought maybe it had something to do with being free to do whatever you wanted. To sin to your heart’s content so to speak. Now I know better. Thank you for your thoughtful response.
P.S. I’m glad you didn’t do away with all of your Catholic upbringing, or maybe it has something to do with your military training, anyways you don’t seem like the self-indulgent type.
G
GraceDK
Guest
**humbleindoubt:
what you’re referring to is merely psychology delusion. Anyone can convince themselves of anything. A good psychological disposition even manifests in good physical health (so there is substantial untapped power in the human mind). **
Actually it is not. Psychology has an effect on our health and well being and even has great healing potential. However you seek to describe that, which any actual scientist would say is way beyond his field of study, and you claim to give a factual statements about it. That’s where atheism becomes the most mythological of all world views. It simply does not accept the borders of scientific statements.
**this is just typical religion diatribe. No god has ever appeared to man. What you’re referring to is mythology, not provable fact. **
Can you prove God didn*t appear to man? If you can’t you just shot your self in the foot.
I experience God as a reality that transcends even this very conversation. As for you, you forgot to tell me if you have ever loved Christ.
**I can assure you it wasn’t some invisible god who healed these people.
Again atheism shows its true colours. You can assure me… no, you cannot asure me anything which you dont know. Its amazing how illogical atheism is… what is it based on? Anger?
**They just willed themselves better (and it happens all the time, among the religious and non-religious alike). In addition … they got lucky (and probably had good doctors). **
They willed themselves better? I see. Yet I have met people who had no faith in healing, that were healed all the same, people in the last stage of cancer who were reconciled with dying and didn’t expect any miracle, suddenly from one day to the next healed. One man testified he had fallen out of a window when trying to catch a young woman who wanted to take her own life. The next moment they stood next to each other on the ground, safe and sound both of them. This happend in Medjugorje, the number-one pilgrime sight in the world today. There I saw a man who was posessed and an exorcism was carried out, there I felt the Holy Spirit physically as a power outside of me that I believe could have been measured by any scientific method… And I met a lady who had become a believer the instand she stepped out of her car in that place (I urge you to visit it).
There are people even in my country of unbelievers that have been raised from the dead. Tell me how the thoughts of a dead man can cause him to come back to life? In Fatima 1917, 70.000 people saw the same vision at the same time, also the atheists saw it. Mass hallucination?
You see, testimonies are endless… and the explanations that you resort to in order to explain the unexplainable are more fantastic than anything I have ever believed in.
**these were atmospheric events readily explainable by science. Just as the 67 people who recovered from their illnesses at Lourdes (it’s peculiar that the church never tells what happened the hundreds of thousands of other believing Catholics who went to Lourdes to be healed). Just a normal statistical occurrence, nothing more nothing less. **
67 people were seperately healed in Lourdes, you say. But why you choose this and not one of these other things I have testified about? I know a lady whose leg was healed in Lourdes and someone who found peace of mind there. These people are not written in any statistics. Just like most pilgrims they go home carrying their story in their heart.
ahhh, I love how religious zealots toss around the word “dare”?
I suppose you would like to think I’m an angry person (and that only Catholics can be happy). I call that attitude bigotry. As for the rest of it … we’ll have wait & see right?
I dont think you are angry. Actually it does not interest me. I guess that, like me, you are on these fora because you are entertained or want to learn something through being here. I hope you are somewhat provoked because that means the spirit is not dead in you.
and I sort of feel sorry for people who base their entire lives on a myth. So there we stand!
Even if Jesus turned out in the end to not be divine and there is only darkness and nothing after death I will have lived a happy and meaningful life. You see, LOVE with divine mandate and example, taught me how to live in the fullness of life. I have tried your life… I used to think Jesus was a man who walked around 2000 years ago and no one heard from him since then… But now I have a new life, and this is REAL. I realise that an atheist can be both a nice guy and a happy guy. But someone who truly knows Jesus, if he was happy before, now he is much more happy.
I don’t talk to you about heaven and hell. I think this life here and now is so awesome and important. Its important that we live it to the fullest, most authentic, the way it was meant to be lived fulfilling our biggest purpose…
All I challenge you to do is to ask God if he exists. If you ask sincerely, you will be answered.
Peace to you.**
what you’re referring to is merely psychology delusion. Anyone can convince themselves of anything. A good psychological disposition even manifests in good physical health (so there is substantial untapped power in the human mind). **
Actually it is not. Psychology has an effect on our health and well being and even has great healing potential. However you seek to describe that, which any actual scientist would say is way beyond his field of study, and you claim to give a factual statements about it. That’s where atheism becomes the most mythological of all world views. It simply does not accept the borders of scientific statements.
**this is just typical religion diatribe. No god has ever appeared to man. What you’re referring to is mythology, not provable fact. **
Can you prove God didn*t appear to man? If you can’t you just shot your self in the foot.
I experience God as a reality that transcends even this very conversation. As for you, you forgot to tell me if you have ever loved Christ.
**I can assure you it wasn’t some invisible god who healed these people.
Again atheism shows its true colours. You can assure me… no, you cannot asure me anything which you dont know. Its amazing how illogical atheism is… what is it based on? Anger?
**They just willed themselves better (and it happens all the time, among the religious and non-religious alike). In addition … they got lucky (and probably had good doctors). **
They willed themselves better? I see. Yet I have met people who had no faith in healing, that were healed all the same, people in the last stage of cancer who were reconciled with dying and didn’t expect any miracle, suddenly from one day to the next healed. One man testified he had fallen out of a window when trying to catch a young woman who wanted to take her own life. The next moment they stood next to each other on the ground, safe and sound both of them. This happend in Medjugorje, the number-one pilgrime sight in the world today. There I saw a man who was posessed and an exorcism was carried out, there I felt the Holy Spirit physically as a power outside of me that I believe could have been measured by any scientific method… And I met a lady who had become a believer the instand she stepped out of her car in that place (I urge you to visit it).
There are people even in my country of unbelievers that have been raised from the dead. Tell me how the thoughts of a dead man can cause him to come back to life? In Fatima 1917, 70.000 people saw the same vision at the same time, also the atheists saw it. Mass hallucination?
You see, testimonies are endless… and the explanations that you resort to in order to explain the unexplainable are more fantastic than anything I have ever believed in.
**these were atmospheric events readily explainable by science. Just as the 67 people who recovered from their illnesses at Lourdes (it’s peculiar that the church never tells what happened the hundreds of thousands of other believing Catholics who went to Lourdes to be healed). Just a normal statistical occurrence, nothing more nothing less. **
67 people were seperately healed in Lourdes, you say. But why you choose this and not one of these other things I have testified about? I know a lady whose leg was healed in Lourdes and someone who found peace of mind there. These people are not written in any statistics. Just like most pilgrims they go home carrying their story in their heart.
ahhh, I love how religious zealots toss around the word “dare”?
I suppose you would like to think I’m an angry person (and that only Catholics can be happy). I call that attitude bigotry. As for the rest of it … we’ll have wait & see right?
I dont think you are angry. Actually it does not interest me. I guess that, like me, you are on these fora because you are entertained or want to learn something through being here. I hope you are somewhat provoked because that means the spirit is not dead in you.
and I sort of feel sorry for people who base their entire lives on a myth. So there we stand!
Even if Jesus turned out in the end to not be divine and there is only darkness and nothing after death I will have lived a happy and meaningful life. You see, LOVE with divine mandate and example, taught me how to live in the fullness of life. I have tried your life… I used to think Jesus was a man who walked around 2000 years ago and no one heard from him since then… But now I have a new life, and this is REAL. I realise that an atheist can be both a nice guy and a happy guy. But someone who truly knows Jesus, if he was happy before, now he is much more happy.
I don’t talk to you about heaven and hell. I think this life here and now is so awesome and important. Its important that we live it to the fullest, most authentic, the way it was meant to be lived fulfilling our biggest purpose…
All I challenge you to do is to ask God if he exists. If you ask sincerely, you will be answered.
Peace to you.**
H
humble_in_doubt
Guest
I remember using the same argument when I was Christian (that atheism is the most mythological or even proposes the most miraculous thing … that the world created itself, which of course no intelligent atheist would say).
The fact is the relationship between psychological health and physical health is well documented, and it’s not beyond the reach of science (that’s an absurd statement).
yes I can prove god never appeared to man. As for the rest … I’m not going to engage you in an illogical emotive debate.
atheism is illogical to you … because you’re programmed (through your environment) to believe in religious myth. I’m not here to talk you out of your faith … although I’m confident in every word I say.
didn’t i just respond to exactly the same story? I’m not going to continually repeat myself, nor should you.
atmospheric event explained by science.
you mean normal statistical occurrences (like the fact that there’s nothing miraculous about 67 out of hundreds of thousands of people recovering from an illness)?
of what relevant value does the fact that they were separately healed hold? It would have been more miraculous if a group of 67 people were healed. I’m not sure what you’re getting at here?
cool
I experience love as well, and it’s great that you do too (pretty miserable life without love).
and I tried yours?
be well …
B
Benjamin8o8
Guest
Wow, you missed out to reply to a lot of her questions. Such as the testimonies that took place, the healings that occured and ect. Science dosen´t have all the answers, and Grace was right when she said
"However you seek to describe that, which any actual scientist would say is way beyond his field of study, and you claim to give a factual statements about it. " Your reply was thats an absurd statement Why? Because you rely on science way to much, I
m only guessing this has to do something with pride, because a lot of people that achieve degrees of some kind believe they can actually "through their knowledge" deny the existence of God. But yet even you said the universe is 14 billions of years old, but what happened before that? How ldoes ife pop up in the picture just like that? It cant…there always needs to be a cause for any type of creation. This where athiests fall short, because supposoply they can date rocks back to thousands or millions of years old, but when you ask the simply questions like “how did life originate?”…this is what you will get:
You
re also wrong about the healing that happened in Lourds. Only 67 miracles were recorded by lourdes. Testimonies of miracles happen ALL the time in lourdes, but the reason that only a short number of peope were documented is because the Church had to carefully examine all the evidence given from Her patients. They had to asure that nobody was making anything up so they gathered plenty of evidence that the patient was trully ill before she recived her/his healings from the Lord. Thousands and thousands of people appear in Lourdes, the church cant just go gather more and more evidence, we already have unexplained miracles if people dont want to believe that because they base their faith on men with white robes then thats their decision. If the Church wanted she could have recived much more miracles from people but whats the point. God Himself could appear to us and prove His existence, but afterwards we would be like robotic puppies with no free will. God wants us to CHOOSE to love Him, if others simply dont want to because they want to experience the luxuries of this earth, they are willing to do so.*yes I can prove god never appeared to man. As for the rest … I’m not going to engage you in an illogical emotive debate. *
I actually believe it was YOU who was programmed (through your envorionment) to believe in Chritianity. You were never a true Christian, you never actually LOVED Jesus Christ. Believing in Him and adoring Him are 2 different things. This is why I believe you left Christinaity. I can`t imagine anybody that felt the love of Christ actually abandon Him in the future.
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