Unbelieving brothers

[molonlabe]

My first question to this forum and my reason for joining. I will give all the information so as not to try and sway responses:

I am a married adult with children. I am roman catholic. My 2 younger brothers were also raised catholic. My one brother married an episcopal woman, but received dispensation from the catholic church, with the contigency that he baptize his children catholic, to which he agreed. My other brother is unmarried. The three of us are professionals and have attained advanced degrees (I mention this because our long exposure to secular education was highly responsible for our movement away from church teaching).

Although all three of us gradually departed from catholicism in our college years, I have found my way back and am doing my best to raise my children this way while at the same time increasing my union with Jesus and the catholic church. You could also say my views of the world lean heavily to the right.

My brothers continue to maintain complete separation from our catholic upbringing. My brother has not baptized any of his 3 children, stating that he wants to let them decide about religion for themselves. My brothers view religion as intellectually inferior. While I support gun rights and smaller government, they view me as a “gun nut” and paranoid. While I am against gay marriage and abortion, they see me as “closed minded” and “unsupportive of womens rights”.

The longer this goes on, the less and less I can stand to be around them. Their lives permeate with secularism and anti-catholic ways. I dont want my kids around them, and frankly our family get togethers are awkward because we cant discuss anything without arguing. I can see it in my wifes face, she is exhausted by the interactions too.

My question:
At what point do I stop trying to interact with my brothers? I love them, but I cannot evangelize them. Likewise, I am trying to embrace Jesus and the church more closely while they try to move farther away. Their ways are not what I want my children to see. In my opinion, I dont see anything good coming from the interactions anymore.

How do I proceed?

I am truly grateful to receive your most thoughtful answers.
JS

 

[Strydersroom]

My first question to this forum and my reason for joining. I will give all the information so as not to try and sway responses:

I am a married adult with children. I am roman catholic. My 2 younger brothers were also raised catholic. My one brother married an episcopal woman, but received dispensation from the catholic church, with the contigency that he baptize his children catholic, to which he agreed. My other brother is unmarried. The three of us are professionals and have attained advanced degrees (I mention this because our long exposure to secular education was highly responsible for our movement away from church teaching).

Although all three of us gradually departed from catholicism in our college years, I have found my way back and am doing my best to raise my children this way while at the same time increasing my union with Jesus and the catholic church. You could also say my views of the world lean heavily to the right.

My brothers continue to maintain complete separation from our catholic upbringing. My brother has not baptized any of his 3 children, stating that he wants to let them decide about religion for themselves. My brothers view religion as intellectually inferior. While I support gun rights and smaller government, they view me as a “gun nut” and paranoid. While I am against gay marriage and abortion, they see me as “closed minded” and “unsupportive of womens rights”.

The longer this goes on, the less and less I can stand to be around them. Their lives permeate with secularism and anti-catholic ways. I dont want my kids around them, and frankly our family get togethers are awkward because we cant discuss anything without arguing. I can see it in my wifes face, she is exhausted by the interactions too.

My question:
At what point do I stop trying to interact with my brothers? I love them, but I cannot evangelize them. Likewise, I am trying to embrace Jesus and the church more closely while they try to move farther away. Their ways are not what I want my children to see. In my opinion, I dont see anything good coming from the interactions anymore.

How do I proceed?

I am truly grateful to receive your most thoughtful answers.
JS

They are your family, your flesh and blood. You should NEVER stop interacting with them just because they don’t believe what you believe. Sadly on my Mom’s side of the family, there’s a bitter battle (over money of course) going on and the siblings have split over this and don’t interact. It’s horribly sad and tragic. Life is short, love your family and don’t stop interacting over this.

 

[Ambition]

My first question to this forum and my reason for joining. I will give all the information so as not to try and sway responses:

I am a married adult with children. I am roman catholic. My 2 younger brothers were also raised catholic. My one brother married an episcopal woman, but received dispensation from the catholic church, with the contigency that he baptize his children catholic, to which he agreed. My other brother is unmarried. The three of us are professionals and have attained advanced degrees (I mention this because our long exposure to secular education was highly responsible for our movement away from church teaching).

Although all three of us gradually departed from catholicism in our college years, I have found my way back and am doing my best to raise my children this way while at the same time increasing my union with Jesus and the catholic church. You could also say my views of the world lean heavily to the right.

My brothers continue to maintain complete separation from our catholic upbringing. My brother has not baptized any of his 3 children, stating that he wants to let them decide about religion for themselves. My brothers view religion as intellectually inferior. While I support gun rights and smaller government, they view me as a “gun nut” and paranoid. While I am against gay marriage and abortion, they see me as “closed minded” and “unsupportive of womens rights”.

The longer this goes on, the less and less I can stand to be around them. Their lives permeate with secularism and anti-catholic ways. I dont want my kids around them, and frankly our family get togethers are awkward because we cant discuss anything without arguing. I can see it in my wifes face, she is exhausted by the interactions too.

My question:
At what point do I stop trying to interact with my brothers? I love them, but I cannot evangelize them. Likewise, I am trying to embrace Jesus and the church more closely while they try to move farther away. Their ways are not what I want my children to see. In my opinion, I dont see anything good coming from the interactions anymore.

How do I proceed?

I am truly grateful to receive your most thoughtful answers.
JS

Glad to hear you came back into the Faith!
I can relate. I have family members who claim to be Catholic but don’t go to Church and seem to be on the liberal side (meaning: pro abortion, pro homosexuality) politically. Then I have an uncle who is a proud atheist and doesn’t really care about politics and seems to be into moral relativism.
The way I try to deal with it is bringing up the Faith- God, Jesus, Mass- up around them, not passive aggressively at all, but in a positive way. “Well, if God wills it.” “I was getting really irritated, but I tried to think of what Jesus would do in the situation.” “I heard a really good homily about that last week”. That sort of stuff. Reminding them of where they came from, and that there* is* a higher power to whom we should look to for love and advice, that in His Church lies salvation, without full-on commencing the beginning of a religious argument. Sometimes I will remark about the evil of abortion or the impurity of homosexual acts if the topic of conversation comes to it (to which they respond with a sort of awkward silence), but I won’t start the discussion myself.

If they are bringing up politics and religion and trying to harm the Faith and morals of you and your kids, then, you have every right to say something. If they do that every time you see them, maybe proposing a rational discussion among adults would be fitting.

I can’t say for sure because I’m young and I’m no therapist, but I always regret it later when I lose contact with someone, and I’ve had happy relationships with people who differ with me politically and/or religiously.

Maybe try to still see your brothers but not talk politics or religion for a while to calm the waters a little bit, and pray for them in the meantime? Then when/if things start to seem cooler, make little, positive remarks about God and your Catholic Faith and such. Maybe, at that point, even propose a serious religious/political discussion with one or both of them among adults and talk about the issues, mentioning how much you care about their souls.

Good luck and God bless!

 

[As_for_my_House]

The closer you become to your Catholic faith the bigger these differences are going to feel.
I think that most serious Catholics go through this with their extended family, especially when as grownups your siblings start to live very secular lives that embrace cultural norms while you and your family are forced to live counter culturally.

You may be feeling that you want to separate from them now but as you grow in charity the ability to stand them will get easier. Unfortunately, your secular siblings could be the ones who withdrawal from you.You might find yourselves labeled as the weirdos, the holier- than- thous and religious fanatics. Hang in there, talk less( argue less) but do more. By this I mean lend a hand to a sibling in need. Show respect and dignity, thoughtfulness and good manners. Yes, your relationshisp have changed. You are eons ahead of your poor siblings because you know who to live for(the Lord) and how to live(serving one and other) and they do not (yet). One can always hope!

 

[EasterJoy]

Do you remember the passage about tossing pearls before swine? You need to learn to be around people who don’t want to hear what you have to say without getting into an argument. If they don’t want to hear it, just stop.

It will not harm your children to see you being patient and kind, not prone to anger, not holding a grudge, and so on. You only need to tell them that you have admonished your brothers to no avail, and so now you practice the Lord’s admonishments about pearls, swine, and kindness to those who act like your enemies.

Notice how this passage of Holy Scriptures progresses. It comes right on the heels of a passage describing how Jesus’ enemies were looking for a way to get rid of him.

*"But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation. But woe to you who are filled now, for you will be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will grieve and weep. Woe to you when all speak well of you, for their ancestors treated the false prophets in this way.

"But to you who hear I say, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

"To the person who strikes you on one cheek, offer the other one as well, and from the person who takes your cloak, do not withhold even your tunic. Give to everyone who asks of you, and from the one who takes what is yours do not demand it back.

“Do to others as you would have them do to you. For if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same. If you lend money to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit (is) that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, and get back the same amount. But rather, love your enemies and do good to them, and lend expecting nothing back; then your reward will be great and you will be children of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as (also) your Father is merciful.”

“Stop judging and you will not be judged. Stop condemning and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven. Give and gifts will be given to you; a good measure, packed together, shaken down, and overflowing, will be poured into your lap. For the measure with which you measure will in return be measured out to you.”*
Luke 6:24-38

Do you see that you have an opportunity to teach your children how to behave around relatives who merely disagree with you–and who are no different than you were only a few years ago? If your relatives abuse your children or are truly abusive to you, that is one thing. Your children should not be made to see you abused. If you learn you only have to bite your tongue and be polite around those who ought to be sons of the Church who are instead enemies of the Church–as you yourself were not so long ago!–though, that is another thing.

You don’t know. If you drop the willingness to argue in order to defend your opinions, your actions might have more effect. It is fine to exclude your brothers from your circle of trusted ones–they have no reason to get mad because you won’t choose one of them as a godparent–but that doesn’t mean you have to shun them entirely. If they are merely disagreeing and not abusing you or your family, it is fine to keep up contact. It may even teach you how to put a bridle on your tongue, manage your temper, and choose humility in a way that interactions with total strangers could not, who knows? If you are that person in the family, don’t think your children will fail to notice it.

Maybe you can all talk about how you like the fashion of dying hair colors not found in nature or what tattoos are going to look like when today’s vandalized skin gets old. (You can see where I come down on those trivial matters! ) If you have to argue, an argument about trivial things like which NFL defense was the best in history or which is far better ground.

 

[brad90956]

I can empathize with your situation. I have two brothers and a sister who are Catholics but do not practice their faith. My brother has two unbaptized children.

1. Pray, pray and pray some more.
2. Ask your priest for advice.
3. Try not to give up on them. If you cannot evangelize, glorify God with your life, your actions towards them, your words.

Believe me, I know it is hard to do. Try to view them through God’s eyes because they are God’s children too…they are just on the wrong path right now.

God Bless

 

[StudentMI]

Not seeing the connection with faith and arguing for a smaller government and gun rights. One can be a Catholic without supporting either position.

I agree with EasterJoy. Just don’t bring up such topics with them, and if they do say you don’t want to talk about it, then change the topic.

 

[Viki63]

Easter Joy is right on.
No need to argue, the holiest priest I know never defended himself even when people were saying slanderous things about him (because of his pro-life views).

If you can enjoy your brothers without discussing politics or religion, that would be best. They will see you are still highly intelligent and aware of current events, without pushing religion on them.

The Holy Spirit is at work, just as He was in you, and can be trusted. If a conversation does happen that you can’t agree with, just keep your comments to cogent one-liners.
And as others have noted, don’t allow them to put down your faith in front of your children. That would require a calm discussion among the adults.
God bless. I’m happy you’ve come home!

.

 

[Padres1969]

Not seeing the connection with faith and arguing for a smaller government and gun rights. One can be a Catholic without supporting either position.

I agree with EasterJoy. Just don’t bring up such topics with them, and if they do say you don’t want to talk about it, then change the topic.

This would be my advice as well. Avoid topics that cause friction.

 

[AveOTheotokos]

Don’t sever ties with them, but I would Be selective with the frequency and duration of interactions, especially when your children will be involved. Always be kind and charitable, no matter what they throw at you, yet remember to stand firm in your faith. Remember that Jesus warned us that following him would not be easy:

Matthew 10:34-39

34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and a man’s foes will be those of his own household.
37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.

Often times, our greatest obstacles in keeping and growing our faith is not the outside world, but those closest to our hearts.

In situations like this, I just try to live my faith by example and only discuss touchy topics if they bring them up. Never abdicate speaking truth, but speak with kindness. Remember what is said in 1st Peter:

1 Peter 3:15-17

15 but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
16 and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
17 For it is better to suffer for doing right, if that should be God’s will, than for doing wrong.

 

[AnnArbor]

My first question to this forum and my reason for joining. I will give all the information so as not to try and sway responses:

I am a married adult with children. I am roman catholic. My 2 younger brothers were also raised catholic. My one brother married an episcopal woman, but received dispensation from the catholic church, with the contigency that he baptize his children catholic, to which he agreed. My other brother is unmarried. The three of us are professionals and have attained advanced degrees (I mention this because our long exposure to secular education was highly responsible for our movement away from church teaching).

Although all three of us gradually departed from catholicism in our college years, I have found my way back and am doing my best to raise my children this way while at the same time increasing my union with Jesus and the catholic church. You could also say my views of the world lean heavily to the right.

My brothers continue to maintain complete separation from our catholic upbringing. My brother has not baptized any of his 3 children, stating that he wants to let them decide about religion for themselves. My brothers view religion as intellectually inferior. While I support gun rights and smaller government, they view me as a “gun nut” and paranoid. While I am against gay marriage and abortion, they see me as “closed minded” and “unsupportive of womens rights”.

The longer this goes on, the less and less I can stand to be around them. Their lives permeate with secularism and anti-catholic ways. I dont want my kids around them, and frankly our family get togethers are awkward because we cant discuss anything without arguing. I can see it in my wifes face, she is exhausted by the interactions too.

My question:
At what point do I stop trying to interact with my brothers? I love them, but I cannot evangelize them. Likewise, I am trying to embrace Jesus and the church more closely while they try to move farther away. Their ways are not what I want my children to see. In my opinion, I dont see anything good coming from the interactions anymore.

How do I proceed?

I am truly grateful to receive your most thoughtful answers.
JS

Just out of curiosity, who keeps bringing up these topics at family get-togethers? If they are attacking your faith, or espousing positions in front of your children, then yes, speak up. But if you are bringing up the topics, and then “schooling” them when they respond with their own opinions, you don’t have much room for complaint – you asked for it.

Also, some of the things you mentioned are not part of Catholic teaching at all – smaller government, gun rights, etc. People of good will are free to disagree on a number of these things.

My family includes people from every religious and political viewpoint, even though we were all raised Catholic. When we get together, we steer clear of those topics and talk about our kids, reminisce about fun times in childhood, remember our parents, etc. We’ve found there is plenty to discuss without having to argue.

 

[Used2beSherryG]

Welcome Home! I have the same situation. My brother and sister are so far away from the Church they talk of it with disdain.Touchy subjects abound as they are totally secularized and make comments about things that the Church cannot support. I steer clear of discussing these issues with them. I evangelize in my own way, i.e. when asked what have you been doing, I reply with all the Church work I do, delivering meals to shut-ins, teaching Catechism to those who want to join the church, praying the rosary or meeting with my prayer group, just got back from Mass etc. Just what ever has occurred in my life . Then I can ask what they’ve been doing. Simple stuff like that. I won’t put up with them tearing down the church and have learned that when I respond with actual facts about the Church they want to steer clear of the topic pretty quickly. It is hard, but it’s our cross to bear. With your children, offer prayers for the siblings to receive the Holy Spirit and come back home to the church. Pray for them always, and don’t give up on them. Once a Catholic, always a Catholic

 

[molonlabe]

These answers are so thoughtful. Thank you!

I have revisited this passage: Matthew 7:6 with new appreciation.