'uncatholic' Catholics?

[Della]

People with the burden of SSA often claim the Church does not understand their situation, but of course, it does. The Church simply doesn’t condon homosexual behavior. It doesn’t condemn anyone for having attraction for the same sex. They are two different things, but that often gets lost in the discussion.

Your friend simply doesn’t want to live without SSA sex and so stays away from the Church. It’s too bad. There is a way to fight such things just as one can fight any sexual addiction or problem. But, our society tells them the Church is wrong and they are right and if they want to live the lifestyle, who are they going to want to believe?

 

[Abira]

People with the burden of SSA often claim the Church does not understand their situation, but of course, it does. The Church simply doesn’t condon homosexual behavior. It doesn’t condemn anyone for having attraction for the same sex. They are two different things, but that often gets lost in the discussion.

===========================================
you don’t have to tell me that lol… I’ve had horrible conversations on here regarding SSA… I think the last thread got deleted but I’m not sure why. I think people were passing off their opinions as if it were church opinion… but I don’t know enough to say that.​

Your friend simply doesn’t want to live without SSA sex and so stays away from the Church. It’s too bad. There is a way to fight such things just as one can fight any sexual addiction or problem. But, our society tells them the Church is wrong and they are right and if they want to live the lifestyle, who are they going to want to believe?

He has said to me that he knows what he is doing is wrong… I’ll have to talk further with him sometime.

But the thing that confused me was the fact that he never realised that he should go to confession and did not understand why I’d even asked him…

I thought missing mass without good reason was a sin, never mind SSA sex lol… not that I judge his choices at all, I’ve made many mistakes myself, but I don’t understand why he does not just go protestant and have done with it. His ideas are much more closely alligned.

S

 

[Strider]

It is especially sad to me that these Catholics bash the Church, water down the liturgy, and don’t live moral lives- yet their Masses and confessions are valid- yet there are Anglicans (high Church Anglicans- not your average Episcopalian) who call their service Mass, who revere their priests, who love the Eucharist (even though theirs is invalid- by a technicality that the laity and even most of the clergy have nothing to do with), who love the Blessed Virgin Mary and the Saints, who have communion rails, incense, bells, sacred music that is not heretical or cheap-sounding, genuflections, kneeling, and all the things we typically associate with reverence and orthodoxy- yet they are not Catholic and Anglicans do not have valid orders…the Catholics I referred to do have valid orders though- it is very unfortunate. It certainly isn’t very “ecumenical” to throw out everything they and many other Christians find inspiring.

There’s a lot to this thread. First, about the Anglicans: All of the above is true, but I would comment that Anglicans ordain women priests. Epicopalians (their American branch), ordain practicing gay and lesbian bishops and perform same sex “marriages.”
As far as non-Catholic Catholics, there’s something about being Catholic that makes even non believers with the remotest afiliations with the Church still claim the title. We were away from the sacraments for about 25 years (real long story). We never went anywhere else and always identified ourselves as Catholic. We just couldn’t find the real Catholic Church. Boy, are we back now!
It seems as if Abira, along with C.S. Lewis, is a better Catholic than many who claim the title.

 

[Abira]

It seems as if C.S. Lewis, is a better Catholic than many who claim the title.

Do you think that they may actually be devaluing the ‘title’ of being a Catholic and removing it from being about faith? To anyone who listens to them they are perhaps not the greatest or truest picture of what Catholicism is???

 

[Strider]

Do you think that they may actually be devaluing the ‘title’ of being a Catholic and removing it from being about faith? To anyone who listens to them they are perhaps not the greatest or truest picture of what Catholicism is???

Not really. When I grew up in the '50’s, most Protestants understood more about Catholocism than many Catholics do today, and the average extant Pretestant has no clue.
Many of the younger Catholics understand the need for catechesis; for understanding their faith and are very knowledgable.
And there is much better faithful Catholic media.
I’m optomistic.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

There’s a lot to this thread. First, about the Anglicans: All of the above is true, but I would comment that Anglicans ordain women priests. Epicopalians (their American branch), ordain practicing gay and lesbian bishops and perform same sex “marriages.”
As far as non-Catholic Catholics, there’s something about being Catholic that makes even non believers with the remotest afiliations with the Church still claim the title. We were away from the sacraments for about 25 years (real long story). We never went anywhere else and always identified ourselves as Catholic. We just couldn’t find the real Catholic Church. Boy, are we back now!
It seems as if Abira, along with C.S. Lewis, is a better Catholic than many who claim the title.

To quote Homer Simpson, “Once you go Vatican you don’t go back again.”

 

[Future_Prodigy]

It is especially sad to me that these Catholics bash the Church, water down the liturgy, and don’t live moral lives- yet their Masses and confessions are valid- yet there are Anglicans (high Church Anglicans- not your average Episcopalian) who call their service Mass, who revere their priests, who love the Eucharist (even though theirs is invalid- by a technicality that the laity and even most of the clergy have nothing to do with), who love the Blessed Virgin Mary and the Saints, who have communion rails, incense, bells, sacred music that is not heretical or cheap-sounding, genuflections, kneeling, and all the things we typically associate with reverence and orthodoxy- yet they are not Catholic and Anglicans do not have valid orders…the Catholics I referred to do have valid orders though- it is very unfortunate. It certainly isn’t very “ecumenical” to throw out everything they and many other Christians find inspiring.

lol this catholic supremacy bs is almost to much to swallow. I am a raised high church anglican discenring the move to RC but comments liek this make me sick to my stomach. A backslided christian who denies the teachigns of the churhc is not part of the church i dont care what others say. Its nonsense to imply that they are but then others who have very similar beliefs and practice the faith are not. Totally nonsense!

 

[Future_Prodigy]

in just a previous thread i was reading about pick and chosing your faith (i.e. cafeteria christians), they said that if you partake in such a practice you no longer are catholci then hear i read such strange statements as that

 

[Janet_S]

I definitely think there are some Protestants/non-Catholics who are more Catholic than people who claim they are Catholic. Albira, I don’t want to scare you, but you are more “Catholic” than your friends.

Does the Church not educate them? Well if you never go to Mass and you never pick up a Bible, Catechism, or any other religious book, you won’t learn anything. For anyone who wants to learn about the Catholic Church the information is available now more than ever (websites, books, EWTN television, etc). Still, I think there is a problem in educating children about the faith in the schools, CCD classes, and particularly in the homes.

I cannot understand cafeteria Catholicism. If I didn’t believe the Church was true, I wouldn’t waste my time getting up Sunday mornings to go to Mass. (Of course, a lot of them don’t go to Mass.)

Does anyone know of a case where a cafeteria Catholic had a change of heart and later became an orthodox Catholic, believing all the Church teaches? I don’t know why this can’t happen, but I don’t know of any cases where it did. This would be a good topic for Marcus Grodi’s show, “The Journey Home.”

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Does anyone know of a case where a cafeteria Catholic had a change of heart and later became an orthodox Catholic, believing all the Church teaches? I don’t know why this can’t happen, but I don’t know of any cases where it did. This would be a good topic for Marcus Grodi’s show, “The Journey Home.”

Raises his right hand and points at himself

(…thought I wasn’t as bad as some of the people described here)

 

[Elzee]

After the death of JPII a priest was asked by a reporter on Fox News if JPII would consider ‘Cafeteria Catholics’ as being “Catholics”. The priest said he thought JPII would answer yes, but they are all at a different spot on their conversion journey.

I struggle with this question a lot . How much about Catholicism can a person reject and still consider himself Catholic? I know many people in my parish who are pro-choice, believe Catholicism is “just a choice” and it really doesn’t matter what church you go to as long as you’re a Christian, women should be priests, and there is no such thing as a mortal sin. Confesssion? Not needed. They call themselves Catholics and say they would never leave the Church, but haven’t they already left to a great extent? To be honest, I have a hard time thinking of them as Catholics. Are they?

 

[jam070406]

After the death of JPII a priest was asked by a reporter on Fox News if JPII would consider ‘Cafeteria Catholics’ as being “Catholics”. The priest said he thought JPII would answer yes, but they are all at a different spot on their conversion journey.

I struggle with this question a lot . How much about Catholicism can a person reject and still consider himself Catholic? I know many people in my parish who are pro-choice, believe Catholicism is “just a choice” and it really doesn’t matter what church you go to as long as you’re a Christian, women should be priests, and there is no such thing as a mortal sin. Confesssion? Not needed. They call themselves Catholics and say they would never leave the Church, but haven’t they already left to a great extent? To be honest, I have a hard time thinking of them as Catholics. Are they?

it’s one thing to not know teachings of the church and to be in the process of learning more and growing in conversion.

it’s another to know and flat out reject teachings of the church.

 

[Abira]

I definitely think there are some Protestants/non-Catholics who are more Catholic than people who claim they are Catholic. Albira, I don’t want to scare you, but you are more “Catholic” than your friends.

lol it’s ok, I think just coming from a former anti-Catholic position it’s kinda wierd to hear that, though I take your point

Take care, S

 

[Penny_Plain]

I struggle with this question a lot . How much about Catholicism can a person reject and still consider himself Catholic? I know many people in my parish who are pro-choice, believe Catholicism is “just a choice” and it really doesn’t matter what church you go to as long as you’re a Christian, women should be priests, and there is no such thing as a mortal sin. Confesssion? Not needed. They call themselves Catholics and say they would never leave the Church, but haven’t they already left to a great extent? To be honest, I have a hard time thinking of them as Catholics. Are they?

Why does it matter to you?

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

lol this catholic supremacy bs is almost to much to swallow. I am a raised high church anglican discenring the move to RC but comments liek this make me sick to my stomach. A backslided christian who denies the teachigns of the churhc is not part of the church i dont care what others say. Its nonsense to imply that they are but then others who have very similar beliefs and practice the faith are not. Totally nonsense!

There is a difference between a bad member and a non-member.
In a very real sense we are all “bad members” of the Church. However some of us obey most of the formal rules, whilst others don’t.

A non-member, on the other hand, could be a great enemy of the Church, he could be completely indifferent, or he could be on the verge of membership except maybe for a few reservations about specifics that are an obstacle for him. People in the last class might be better allies than those who don’t struggle with questions over, say, contraception, and think that if they ignore the issue it will go away. However they are still non-members, and have a different status to bad members.

 

[biblegirl]

technically, you cannot reject any of the catholic teachings and be catholic. morally, you cannot judge others.
for our protestant friends, the big difference in faith is the eucharist, followed by confession, et al. any protestant or anyone else who is truely interested in the catholic faith should read the early church fathers.:twocents:

 

[Elzee]

Why does it matter to you?

It matters to me because I live in an area where there are a lot of evangelicals and fundamentalists. More times than I can count friends of mine have told me about Catholics they know who disagree with the church on abortion, contraception, male-only priests, getting drunk, they never go to church, etc.

The questions I inevitabaly get asked are:* “Are they really Catholic if they believe all this stuff? Is this what the Catholic church teaches?” * So far, my response has been along the lines of ‘anybody can call himself a "Catholic’, but a “faithful Catholic” is a person who has submitted to the authority God gave His Church on matters of faith and morals".

So, it matters to me because when talking to my evangelical friends who I honestly have more in common with than most of my “Catholic” friends, I just don’t really know how to answer their questions.

 

[Janet_S]

Raises his right hand and points at himself

(…thought I wasn’t as bad as some of the people described here)

Would you be willing to be a guest on The Journey Home?
If you would, why don’t you send an email to Marcus Grodi. I would love to see you give your testimony.

 

[Penny_Plain]

So, it matters to me because when talking to my evangelical friends who I honestly have more in common with than most of my “Catholic” friends, I just don’t really know how to answer their questions.

Fair enough. (Catholics can’t get drunk? Whoops.) I think it’s dangerous to try to look into somebody else’s heart and judge their degree of “orthodoxy” or “Catholicness.”

Leave it to God, would be my advice.

 

[Abira]

Fair enough. (Catholics can’t get drunk? Whoops.) I think it’s dangerous to try to look into somebody else’s heart and judge their degree of “orthodoxy” or “Catholicness.”

Leave it to God, would be my advice.

I would agree with that statement although I’d also add that this reminds me of (again I’m awful at quotations lol)

They shall be known by their fruits.

It is confusing for people when the lines are blurred… they wonder which side of the line they are on, or should be on.

S