Unchanging morality... polygammy permissable?

[Jack007]

food for thought from the ccc

2387 The predicament of a man who, desiring to convert to the Gospel, is obliged to repudiate one or more wives with whom he has shared years of conjugal life, is understandable. However polygamy is not in accord with the moral law." [Conjugal] communion is radically contradicted by polygamy; this, in fact, directly negates the plan of God which was revealed from the beginning, because it is contrary to the equal personal dignity of men and women who in matrimony give themselves with a love that is total and therefore unique and exclusive."180 The Christian who has previously lived in polygamy has a grave duty in justice to honor the obligations contracted in regard to his former wives and his children.

2400 Adultery, divorce, polygamy, and free union are grave offenses against the dignity of marriage.

1610 Moral conscience concerning the unity and indissolubility of marriage developed under the pedagogy of the old law. In the Old Testament the polygamy of patriarchs and kings is not yet explicitly rejected. Nevertheless, the law given to Moses aims at protecting the wife from arbitrary domination by the husband, even though according to the Lord’s words it still carries traces of man’s “hardness of heart” which was the reason Moses permitted men to divorce their wives

1645 "The unity of marriage, distinctly recognized by our Lord, is made clear in the equal personal dignity which must be accorded to man and wife in mutual and unreserved affection."155 Polygamy is contrary to conjugal love which is undivided and exclusive

1664 Unity, indissolubility, and openness to fertility are essential to marriage. Polygamy is incompatible with the unity of marriage; divorce separates what God has joined together; the refusal of fertility turns married life away from its “supreme gift,” the child

 

[1ke]

Care to elaborate?

osv.com/MyFaith/ModelsoftheFaith/Article/TabId/684/ArtMID/13728/ArticleID/13156/Polygamy-in-the-Bible.aspx

 

[Robyn_p]

So God didn’t prohibit polygamy in the OT because He was trying to “ease them into it?”

I just can’t imagine something as fundamental as adultery being permissible because God was trying to meet them where they were…

Thank you for the response, its the best ive gotten so far.

True, it is a little hard to understand. But that is what Jesus said, so…I can’t really argue with that.

That said, if you think about the time they were living in, I can kind of see why God might have chosen to do it this way. Back in those days, in that culture, men weren’t expected to be only limited to one women, even though women were limited to one man. And the only way a woman could provide for herself back then (without resorting to prostitution) was to be married.

So it seems to me that God was trying to limit the damage done by temporarily permitting these things. If the men were going to be with more than one woman anyway, (given the culture they were soaked in) it would be better for them to at least marry those other women and provide for them and their children, then just leave them homeless. Again, hardness of hearts thing.

Eventually, he would work it into their heads that this is not good and not what he wants, just like he would reveal that burnt sacrifices weren’t what he wanted either. But God had to work with what he had and slowly reveal himself and his plan to them.

 

[glendab]

Hello Loki(name removed by moderator).

If morality doesn’t change, then why did God not count it as a sin to be married to multiple people during the Old Testament days?

Yeah I think the easiest reply so far is “how do you know He didn’t consider it a sin?”

Glenda

 

[glendab]

Hello Loki(name removed by moderator).

So God didn’t prohibit polygamy in the OT because He was trying to “ease them into it?”

I just can’t imagine something as fundamental as adultery being permissible because God was trying to meet them where they were…

Thank you for the response, its the best ive gotten so far.

God didn’t “permit” it - He tolerated it. Think* God’s permissive will*. The Ten Commandments existed before God gave them to Moses. They were REVEALED to Moses who had to explain them to the people and then they had to keep them. You weren’t born knowing them either, you had to learn them and what they meant for you in particular as you grew older. It is sort of the same thing on a bigger scale. Spiritually they were children and did what they thought best. God had to work with that and He did. Just because the parts of the Old Testament that you read about the polygamy in them don’t contain footnotes that condemn these actions doesn’t mean they were any less sinful then if they happened today. Read them more and ask God to help you understand them better. He is after all, the Author of those Scriptures, so He can “talk” to your heart about them when you read them prayerfully. You should also consider Job as we are going through his story Liturgically now. It is said clearly he was a righteous man in God’s sight and he had only one wife and his children being raised right weren’t polygamists either. Consider that. It is true.

I’d also consider checking out Dr. Hahn’s stuff and see if he doesn’t reference this in something he’s written. I’m sure he’s got it covered to but I don’t know his stuff that well to point you directly to which book. Sorry.

Glenda

 

[glendab]

Hello Loki(name removed by moderator).

Care to elaborate?

How about this, not everything St. Thomas wrote about was 100% perfect. He had limited knowledge and was only a human being doing God’s will for him. He didn’t have all the answers. No one does.

Glenda

 

[Paleocon]

Aquinas is a saint, and brilliant, no doubt. But not infallible.

Neither are those who disagree with him in the matter.

 

[Verchiel]

I dared the finest theologians around to prove me wrong once. Your not going to find scripture to forbid it, I looked when once I wanted another wife. I took her and I had two wives for five years. It ended disastrously, ripping my heart out and left me feeling as if I would rather die than live with the pain. I was young then and having two beautiful wives was appealing to me at the time, raving beauty’s both of them, blond and red head, now I’m older and still with my first wife and believe me you don’t want to go there, the foolishness of youth drags us to many unwise decisions that we end up living with the rest of our lives. Its not worth it, no young men “not even the sex” can make up for having two women mad at each other and jealous of your affections, fighting and back stabbing and trying to get you to turn on the other. It was hell! and I now wish I would have avoided the entire affair. Its an embarrassment to my family, my children and hers as well, the one we left behind, she tried to commit suicide even and stays hidden from her past to this very day. Be wise and avoid this foolishness.

 

[JSSD]

I dared the finest theologians around to prove me wrong once. Your not going to find scripture to forbid it, I looked when once I wanted another wife. I took her and I had two wives for five years. It ended disastrously, ripping my heart out and left me feeling as if I would rather die than live with the pain. I was young then and having two beautiful wives was appealing to me at the time, raving beauty’s both of them, blond and red head, now I’m older and still with my first wife and believe me you don’t want to go there, the foolishness of youth drags us to many unwise decisions that we end up living with the rest of our lives. Its not worth it, no young men “not even the sex” can make up for having two women mad at each other and jealous of your affections, fighting and back stabbing and trying to get you to turn on the other. It was hell! and I now wish I would have avoided the entire affair. Its an embarrassment to my family, my children and hers as well, the one we left behind, she tried to commit suicide even and stays hidden from her past to this very day. Be wise and avoid this foolishness.

This was in Oklahoma?

 

[Robert_Filmer]

Jesus addresses a similar topic. (Polygamy seems a lot like divorce)

4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8 He said to them,** “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.** 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”