Uncharitable?

[AdamP88]

There are many Catholics who support things that the Church teaches against, such as divorce, SSM, abortion etc. (Particularly abortion though, in relation to my question).

I know we are called to be charitable to all. I try my best. But my question is this: If we encounter someone who is aware of Church teaching on these issues, yet rejects it and continues to receive the Eucharist saying: “My personal relationship with Jesus is nobody’s business. Who are you to judge me”, or similar.

Should we just tell these people that no, you should not receive the Eucharist unless you change your view and stop promoting this view as correct.

Or should we say nothing and hope they just change their minds?

My view is that true charity would entail pointing out to the person that they are wrong.

Any other views?

 

[AClaire11]

I think that sort of conversation is best left to the priest.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

You need to be honest with yourself, are you likely to have any effect on this person? Are they likely to change as a result? Most of the time the answer will be no. It’s also important to make sure this is coming from the heart and not ego, some people love pointing out other peoples flaws as an ego trip.

 

[Franciscan_Way]

I think whether or not to say anything would depend on your relationship to the person. Are they a friend, relative, etc? First and foremost, I believe that you can’t go wrong if you pray for their conversion of heart.
Peace and all good.

 

[AdamP88]

You need to be honest with yourself, are you likely to have any effect on this person? Are they likely to change as a result? Most of the time the answer will be no. It’s also important to make sure this is coming from the heart and not ego, some people love pointing out other peoples flaws as an ego trip.

Well if I’m honest, I’d say that the church teaches this quite clearly and it’s more out of respect for the blessed sacrament than anything else.

 

[pianistclare]

A wise priest once told me:

The TRUTH …is always the most compassionate way.

That word “charitable” gets batted around here quite a bit.
I have many times, attempted to help people understand the “why” of various church teachings, mostly because I’m an educator, but also because I actually care. .
If that’s “uncharitable”, well, I don’t know what to think. We’re called to love one another. Love doesn’t entail allowing people to be misled.
:twocents:

 

[AdamP88]

A wise priest once told me:

The TRUTH …is always the most compassionate way.

That word “charitable” gets batted around here quite a bit.
I have many times, attempted to help people understand the “why” of various church teachings, mostly because I’m an educator, but also because I actually care. .
If that’s “uncharitable”, well, I don’t know what to think. We’re called to love one another. Love doesn’t entail allowing people to be misled.
:twocents:

I tend to agree. I mean, how will anyone ever know they’re doing wrong if people never say it to them. Obviously it has to be done with love though.

 

[pensmama87]

I tend to agree. I mean, how will anyone ever know they’re doing wrong if people never say it to them. Obviously it has to be done with love though.

Kind of like what ConfusedLucy said, I think the audience and your relationship with them needs to be kept in mind. Except for CAF, I almost never post about this kind of thing online anymore, because the Internet can be a horrible place and it’s basically casting pearls before swine.

But with family and friends, I can do some gentle correction, “The Church says this, even though the media says it teaches that,” for example. I tend to be upfront about the difficulty of living out some of these teachings in today’s world. But these are with people who know me personally and can see how I live these out in my daily life. They know I’m a “normal” person.

I also try to present it as a positive rather than a negative - not “The Church says no!” but “The Church asks us to…”

I don’t know that I’ve converted anyone yet, but I have got some, "Huh, never thought about it like that"s. Which beats being told you’re a backwards idiot who wants to hamper everybody’s good time.

 

[AdamP88]

Kind of like what ConfusedLucy said, I think the audience and your relationship with them needs to be kept in mind. Except for CAF, I almost never post about this kind of thing online anymore, because the Internet can be a horrible place and it’s basically casting pearls before swine.

But with family and friends, I can do some gentle correction, “The Church says this, even though the media says it teaches that,” for example. I tend to be upfront about the difficulty of living out some of these teachings in today’s world. But these are with people who know me personally and can see how I live these out in my daily life. They know I’m a “normal” person.

I also try to present it as a positive rather than a negative - not “The Church says no!” but “The Church asks us to…”

I don’t know that I’ve converted anyone yet, but I have got some, "Huh, never thought about it like that"s. Which beats being told you’re a backwards idiot who wants to hamper everybody’s good time.

I know what you mean, but if someone says, for example; “I don’t think the pope, priests or the church in general has any teaching authority and I reject their teaching. (on abortion in this case) But I love Jesus and I receive the Eucharist each week.” Surely it’s our responsibility to say, well, if you don’t believe in the authority of the church, then why do you bother with communion? Why do you disrespect the belief of Catholics by promoting an evil, (abortion) and then going up to receive Jesus from the church that you say has no authority.

What’s wrong with calling out the inconsistency of that statement?

 

[mommy_k]

Idk, for me it depends on the conversation and who the person is.

I know someone who is just plain nasty, mean and a backstabber, but goes to communion every week…they don’t believe in confession…

I asked why and she BLASTED me. So I know not to mention things like this to aggressive people.

 

[pianistclare]

I know what you mean, but if someone says, for example; “I don’t think the pope, priests or the church in general has any teaching authority and I reject their teaching. (on abortion in this case) But I love Jesus and I receive the Eucharist each week.” Surely it’s our responsibility to say, well, if you don’t believe in the authority of the church, then why do you bother with communion? Why do you disrespect the belief of Catholics by promoting an evil, (abortion) and then going up to receive Jesus from the church that you say has no authority.

What’s wrong with calling out the inconsistency of that statement?

Well that one is easy.
You can ask “One who loves Jesus doesn’t advocate loss of life”.
Pretty basic.

I think where people get upset if it’s “calling out” “schooling” “reading”.
None of this is what I’m talking about, nor do I think that what you are really talking about.
Correction with love, or even, just simple dialog on important issues with love in our hearts is VERY effective to prompting a person to simply THINK about what they believe, or what they say. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Imagine if teachers in schools were afraid of saying anything.
We’d be an even dumber people than we are.
I agree with pensmama though. The internet is mostly a futile place to try to influence people. There are a lot of great posters here, and they get trashed by people who would promote division. Separation from Christ’s church, whatever you want to call it.
Funny how they never seem to be called “uncharitable” though.

 

[pensmama87]

I know what you mean, but if someone says, for example; “I don’t think the pope, priests or the church in general has any teaching authority and I reject their teaching. (on abortion in this case) But I love Jesus and I receive the Eucharist each week.” Surely it’s our responsibility to say, well, if you don’t believe in the authority of the church, then why do you bother with communion? Why do you disrespect the belief of Catholics by promoting an evil, (abortion) and then going up to receive Jesus from the church that you say has no authority.

What’s wrong with calling out the inconsistency of that statement?

I think you can say it once. I don’t think it’s wrong to do so. But to continue to do it will probably harden hearts more than soften them.

I will say that I know prayer can work, because it softened my heart. But when people tried to challenge me with logic and reason I became obstinate. Nobody likes to told they’re wrong. Some people like it less than others.

 

[CB_Catholic]

There are many Catholics who support things that the Church teaches against, such as divorce, SSM, abortion etc. (Particularly abortion though, in relation to my question).

I know we are called to be charitable to all. I try my best. But my question is this: If we encounter someone who is aware of Church teaching on these issues, yet rejects it and continues to receive the Eucharist saying: “My personal relationship with Jesus is nobody’s business. Who are you to judge me”, or similar.

Should we just tell these people that no, you should not receive the Eucharist unless you change your view and stop promoting this view as correct.

Or should we say nothing and hope they just change their minds?

My view is that true charity would entail pointing out to the person that they are wrong.

Any other views?

You said they are already aware of Church teaching. So it is their problem, not yours. They have rejected the teaching,
They are adults and have the right to make their own decisions. Pray for them.

 

[Irishmom2]

I know we are called to be charitable to all. I try my best. But my question is this: If we encounter someone who is aware of Church teaching on these issues, yet rejects it and continues to receive the Eucharist

Should we just tell these people that no, you should not receive the Eucharist unless you change your view and stop promoting this view as correct.

Or should we say nothing and hope they just change their minds?

My view is that true charity would entail pointing out to the person that they are wrong.

Any other views?

If, as you say, they are aware of the church’s teaching and still persist in receiving the Eucharist, it is on them. It really is between **them ** and **God.**You have no way of knowing what they confess, so it is none of your business.

I think that in the case of someone that “knows,” it would be more uncharitable of you to say something than not. If they know the church’s teaching, they do not need you to tell them it is wrong, they already know. That would be uncharitable, as it is not your business.

The best thing that you can do is to commit to praying for them to see the error of their ways.

 

[puzzledtoo]

I know I shouldn’t overeat. I know I shouldn’t get angry just because someone disagrees with my beliefs or values. But I do overeat and get angry because someone disagrees with what I say or believe as if I were the most intelligent person alive today.
I’ve read many times since joining caf that we don’t know what is in someone else’s heart. We may get and idea of how they think by the way they act but still don’t know what is in their heart.
I’ve also read many times that one is to pray for the conversion of the heart of those that don’t follow church teachings so to speak.
I believe understanding that we don’t know what is in someone’s heart and sending them blessings are the best things we can do for ourselves and the other person or persons though I’m not the greatest at following this advice.
I find much peace in knowing I’m not the general contractor for all those I know.

 

[His_helpmeet]

I think it’s not uncharitable to tell someone the truth. What CAN be uncharitable is how we do so. For example, you’re not going to call that person out in the middle of Mass when they’re going up to receive Communion. You’re also not going to do it in public. Rather, you’d speak to them privately.

 

[wild_thing]

There are many Catholics who support things that the Church teaches against, such as divorce, SSM, abortion etc. (Particularly abortion though, in relation to my question).

I know we are called to be charitable to all. I try my best. But my question is this: If we encounter someone who is aware of Church teaching on these issues, yet rejects it and continues to receive the Eucharist saying: “My personal relationship with Jesus is nobody’s business. Who are you to judge me”, or similar.

Should we just tell these people that no, you should not receive the Eucharist unless you change your view and stop promoting this view as correct.

Or should we say nothing and hope they just change their minds?

My view is that true charity would entail pointing out to the person that they are wrong.

Any other views?

The problem is, they already KNOW the Church’s teaching and have rejected it. It’s not as if they were ignorant and you are obligated to inform them, i.e., a spiritual work of mercy. Their hearts are hardened and you are not in a position of authority over them. So at this point, it’s best to pray for them and leave the matter between them and God.

 

[CthgeDelendaEst]

This is an area priests and bishops are really failing the flock. When is the last time a priest said in his homily to not receive communion if you have unforgiven mortal sins? I have honestly never heard this come out of a priest’s mouth. When I go to confession, once a week for an hour at my church, maybe 10-20 show up. Yet hundreds queue for communion each mass. I guess I must be living in the company of a bunch of saints.

 

[Irishmom2]

I guess I must be living in the company of a bunch of saints.

This is very uncharitable. You are presuming things you have no way of knowing. You do not know other people’s sins or whether they go to confession elsewhere or not.

 

[AdamP88]

This is very uncharitable. You are presuming things you have no way of knowing. You do not know other people’s sins or whether they go to confession elsewhere or not.

In all fairness, the amount of people who receive communion is entirely disproportionate to the amount that goes to confession each week.