Unconditional love?

[matahari]

God is the purest love possible: so whatever love you hold to be greatest in this world, know that it comes from God, and no servant can be greater than the master.

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Perhaps 'unconditional love ’ is an attribute of God. When this unconditional love is applied in a still fallen world it must operate in a conditional way .
If God’s love impelled His Son Jesus to die in our place then Jesus has
become the Condition we must meet to ’ be saved '

 

[NoelFitz]

I read:

Please try to be charitable in you nitpicking.

I do try to be charitable, while making my views as clear as I can.

I am sorry for uncharitable nitpicking.

As you can see I find the whole area of grace, free will and sin difficult.

Sometimes it seems that God is like a parent with a young child. The parent sees a hole in front of the child and allows the child to fall into it and injure himself. When questioned the parent says that the child had free will and was at fault.

 

[Cbailey2]

I read:
I do try to be charitable, while making my views as clear as I can.

I am sorry for uncharitable nitpicking.

I’m sorry for writing that…my writing was imprecise due to trying to fit these responses into free time in my day job and social life. You have every right to search for cracks in my ideas - I just need to work harder to make sure we understand each other.

As you can see I find the whole area of grace, free will and sin difficult.

It certainly is. There are a plethora of views in Christianity separating the body of Christ due to the different understandings. I don’t personally claim to have a better understanding, but I do trust the Church to have it.

Sometimes it seems that God is like a parent with a young child. The parent sees a hole in front of the child and allows the child to fall into it and injure himself. When questioned the parent says that the child had free will and was at fault.

I can understand that feeling - I often feel it myself. But is that really what God does? When God sees holes in front of us, does He just let us walk in? Or does He say, “Child, look at the hole in front of you!” and then suggest “if you take the path over there, there are no holes! Yes, it looks like a harder path, but it’s not really, and I will be there to help you along that path, whenever you ask for help.” God has revealed to us where ALL of the holes are, He has suggested we take the Right Way through the minefield, so as to avoid all of the holes. But when He sees us wandering off, ignoring His guidance, He has no leash attached to our back (like so many parents these days…) and must let us go where we choose to go.

 

[NoelFitz]

Cbailey2

Many thanks for your very considerate reply.

I do have problems in understanding free will etc.

However, as I said before, the best approach is to leave things to God’s mercy and try to do our best.

 

[NHInsider]

Thanks to all who contributed here. The discussion certainly took off, but it did so in various directions.

Are we agreed that grace is a gratuitous gift of God? None of us merits grace. It is freely given by God. It is not simply deciding to turn on a switch like electricity. If one claimed all one had to do is return to Him by our own choice, we say we save ourselves, this sounds like Pelagianism.

In spite of what one hears at present God does not love us with unconditional love.

It is very like the OT covenant, an agreement between God and man. If we, Catholics, do not sin, we remain within God’s love, if we sin we lose his love and are heading towards hell. The love of God to us is very conditional, as it depends on our behavior.

Is this the position?

No. God loves even those who are in Hell. He is love and loves all His creatures. Why do you think love is not compatible with discipline?

 

[NoelFitz]

No. God loves even those who are in Hell. He is love and loves all His creatures. Why do you think love is not compatible with discipline?

This discussion has really raised serious thoughts for me. I admit I am out of my depth theologically.

It seems strange to me that an almighty God who loves me would allow me to be punished for all eternity, if I die in the state of mortal sin, when if he wanted to he could bring me to heaven.

 

[NHInsider]

This discussion has really raised serious thoughts for me. I admit I am out of my depth theologically.

It seems strange to me that an almighty God who loves me would allow me to be punished for all eternity, if I die in the state of mortal sin, when if he wanted to he could bring me to heaven.

I don’t think we can every fully comprehend God.

I have heard it suggested (this is definitely not an official teaching) that Heaven and Hell could be the same “place” - but that for one who has rejected God, being in His presence would be excruciating punishment.

I do think it is true that if we are not in a state of grace we cannot enter the presence of God any more than if we are wearing only human skin we can walk on the surface of the sun. But this is totally our choice, not God’s - He makes it possible for us to be reconciled.

 

[davidv]

This discussion has really raised serious thoughts for me. I admit I am out of my depth theologically.

It seems strange to me that an almighty God who loves me would allow me to be punished for all eternity, if I die in the state of mortal sin, when if he wanted to he could bring me to heaven.

Why is it so strange? It seems to me be the perfect outcome of perfect love. Love that allows the subject, us, complete freedom to return that love, or not. He wants you in heaven with Him, but He loves you so much that He dare not violate your free will.