Underage drinking

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Hi Jart,

I commend you as a young Catholic who cares enough to research your question. I just need to make a couple of points.

First, really be honest with yourself regarding the amount you drink and if your decision-making capabilities are altered. I am not calling you a liar by any means as I was not there, but would note that “I still know what I am doing” is said by thousands of people before they do something they later regret. Try to remember all of the times you have become intoxicated and create a mental list of your actions. Would you repeat all of those actions today, while completely sober? If not, then your judgment was affected.

Now to my second point. Let’s assume that you were not drunk. Controlled drinking is not a sin. However, you are bound by the laws of the state, which Jesus expects you to honor. The breaking of the law is your sin in this case. I know that you see people speeding and breaking assorted laws every single day (this being why it is sooooo important that we set a good example for our kids and young adults), but the fact that others are sinning does not excuse our own.

It is easy to be right when the rest of the world is right. We make Jesus proudest when we are doing right while the rest of the world is doing wrong!

God Bless,

Jeff
Yes I guess drinking while underage is the only thing I did wrong. I did absolutely nothing wrong as I remember everything. I wasn’t that drunk. If I wasn’t drunk I wouldn’t have asked this question changing the way I think of drinking… So no I didn’t do anything I wouldn’t do sober. Maybe except when a girl pulled me into the bathroom while she used it showing me her self-mutilation scars. Kind of disturbing. :eek: In college I hope I can find the right crowd. My only friends atm these ones who like to party. This was the second time I drank in two years also or maybe third. Won’t happen again…
 
It is my understanding that drinking/drunkenness is only a sin if it leads to lack of self-control.
If it is just a case on being a little tipsy, I don’t think it is a sin, even if you are “underage”. Teenagers, and younger have drank alcohol in many cultures (Catholic cultures) throughout history, and today. Not all breach of civil law is sinful.God Bless
Ya. Maybe so. But there is nothing more stupid looking and acting than someone who is as we used to say 3 sheets in the wind and the 4th one flapping. At that stage only the fellow drunks think the party is funny and clever. Most sober people who may have had one or two drinks find such behavior repellent. I used to drink modestly because I thought it made me more at ease with people and better able to relate, etc. Today I might have a drink once a month and I am having the best time of my life. It is not just a loss of inhibition leading to overtly sinful behavior, it is the loss of inhibition to the point where one looks and acts like a jackass or perhaps for this forum a donkey. At that stage no one is in any condition to even think about driving a car. Yeah I am a killjoy, but I have buried too many drunken friends and relatives. They make life miserable for every one who has to put up with them.
 
I agree underage drinking is bad when the person loses control and does sinful things. First you said it is wrong for people to drink at any age then you say drinking in itself is not a sin. Jesus drank wine… was it wrong? 😉 He’d never do something wrong. In excess where you lose self-control is when it is wrong. As you said it is only sinful since I am underage and I’m not going to disagree with you.
Are you living with your parents or dependant on them financially? Do they know your drinking illegally?
 
Are you living with your parents or dependant on them financially? Do they know your drinking illegally?
I already said this isn’t going to happen again. I am living with my parents and no they do not know I am drinking. I’m sure they expect it since the party was a couple houses down and there was a bunch of cars. They trust me. One of the whole reasons I posted this while I was drunk was because I felt like I had betrayed Christ and my parents. Not happening again…
 
Hey, Jart! It’s tough being young, isn’t it? Vice everywhere and the media makes it look so fun. Can I make a suggestion? Change your friends. If you’re hanging around lawbreakers, they’re probably not bringing out the best in you. Look for friends who don’t feel the need to get plowed several times a week. You will find those are the ones who will really succeed in life. And they aren’t killing crucial brain cells, so they are going to be much more entertaining in the long run.

And in addition to the sin aspect of underage drinking (yes, even if you aren’t falling down drunk, if you are breaking a reasonable law promulgated by competent authority, as St. Thomas described it, you are sinning. Christ did say render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar’s. In this case, it applies to civil law. Even He subjected himself to that. His words apply to you: You would have no authority over me unless it was granted to you by others.) you are interfering with very critical wiring in your brain that is occurring as the prefrontal cortex continues to grow. That is the area tha takes over higher reasoning. Not something you want to mess with at this point in your life.

Do yourself a favor. Cruise without booze. While you stay sober, you might also find yourself a quality girl who abhors that kind of stupid immaturity. You will be much more attractive to that kind of girl if you exert self control!

Good luck! 👍
 
I knew it breaks the law but so does speeding. If we confessed every time we speed then… yeeah. The confession lines would be insane.
If everybody confessed speeding, everybody would eventually drive slower…
 
Hey, Jart! It’s tough being young, isn’t it? Vice everywhere and the media makes it look so fun. Can I make a suggestion? Change your friends. If you’re hanging around lawbreakers, they’re probably not bringing out the best in you. Look for friends who don’t feel the need to get plowed several times a week. You will find those are the ones who will really succeed in life. And they aren’t killing crucial brain cells, so they are going to be much more entertaining in the long run.

And in addition to the sin aspect of underage drinking (yes, even if you aren’t falling down drunk, if you are breaking a reasonable law promulgated by competent authority, as St. Thomas described it, you are sinning. Christ did say render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar’s. In this case, it applies to civil law. Even He subjected himself to that. His words apply to you: You would have no authority over me unless it was granted to you by others.) you are interfering with very critical wiring in your brain that is occurring as the prefrontal cortex continues to grow. That is the area tha takes over higher reasoning. Not something you want to mess with at this point in your life.

Do yourself a favor. Cruise without booze. While you stay sober, you might also find yourself a quality girl who abhors that kind of stupid immaturity. You will be much more attractive to that kind of girl if you exert self control!

Good luck! 👍
The only reason I drank was because I hardly talk to this girl now who is my best friend. I’ve known her for the past 18 years but lately we’ve been distancing. I have turned so many parties down in the past until the point where I wasn’t invited anymore. That’s a good thing. But Monday (first time I drank this week) she invited me and I went because I am moving away soon and I won’t see her often. I love that girl to death. I will never leave her even if she is a partier.I just wont drink with her anymore… but she’ll probably think I’m a weirdo. Bah most people already do. 😛

I talked to a priest today about my vocation. I am discerning the priesthood atm. I had a good 20 minute talk in the confessional and I wont drink again until it is not considered grave matter for me when I turn 21. Everyone tells me “ah you say that now but when you’re in college you will.” Bull. I wont allow it. For confession today there was a woman and her son who let me go ahead of them. There was a lot of people behind me in line. I stayed in there for 20 minutes and a bunch of people left. 😦
 
Drinking to the point of drunkenness (as in losing one’s ability to reason) is a mortal sin, if engaged in with full consent and knowledge.

Drinking underage (but not the point of intoxication) is not necessarily a mortal sin, and perhaps not even a sin at all in some cases. However, it might be in the case of your friends’ parties.
 
The Church has no official declaration on this; so if that’s what you’re looking for, you’re not going to find an answer. If you want to make a decision for yourself, however, this is a good place to find different opinions - choose the one that makes sense and go with it, imo.

Personally? Suddenly being 21 doesn’t magically make you more responsible. It’s an arbitrary age picked by the government. If you’re a responsible young person (and you sound like one), there’s nothing wrong with drinking under the legal age, so long as you’re safe.
 
Exalt, I wouldn’t encourage him to break the law! C’mon! That IS a mixed message.

Some states allow underage drinking. You can order a drink in a restaurant if you are in the presence of a parent or legal guardian. But THEY have to be served the drink. If they give it to you, then you can have it.

Because you are a minor, your parents have the legal say-so about these things. I would ask them what their rules are, and if they tell you you are allowed to break the law, then do it. But I suspect you are not only breaking civil law, but you are disobeying your parents’ rules and regulations. And that is serious business also.

If your parents allow you to drink wine at meals in the home, you may. But underage drinking at someone else’s house is illegal, and if the cops arrive, THOSE adults could go to jail for contributing to the delinquency of minors. When you are under their roof, they are responsible for enforcing civil law.

So there is more than one person involved in this sin. Think about it.
 
Laws shouldn’t be followed just because it’s the law?

That sounds like a rebellious teenager. We are not in the position to determine what laws to follow. And giving a teenager permission to follow the laws he decides are worth following is folly.

I beg to differ. Laws should be followed, whether we agree or not. And if we don’t agree, we have a remedy in our elected representatives and our voting booths. That is our legitimate protest against unjust or stupid laws.

Telling teenagers they don’t need to follow the civil law… well, then they start dispensing themselves from other laws. Because after all, why should they follow a church law just because it’s the law?

Slippery slippery slope here. And it borders on scandal what you are advocating. Someone young and seeking the truth has come here to ask an honest question. Do you have the right to lead him astray?

To be a leader, one first must know how to follow. Respect for law and competent authority is a bedrock of our society. If you counsel Jart to break laws just for shots and giggles, how about he start breaking drug laws because, after all, our drug laws shouldn’t be followed “just because they are the law.”

I’m gonna slap your hand on this one. Remember who the OP is. You don’t have the right to undermine the authority of his parents or his city law enforcement. That kind of stuff may have felt great in the 60s and 70s. But we have seen enough of the chaos that followed that thinking.

Back to your original advice to him:
Personally? Suddenly being 21 doesn’t magically make you more responsible. It’s an arbitrary age picked by the government. If you’re a responsible young person (and you sound like one), there’s nothing wrong with drinking under the legal age, so long as you’re safe.
No, being 21 doesn’t magically do anything. But anyone who has compared an 18 year old with a 21 year old… many have shown a great amount of maturing in that time. And science shows that the prefrontal cortex of the brain continues to develop until age 23. So why interfere with the teenage brain wiring itself properly? The internal contradiction in your argument is that a truly responsible young person will follow the law and wait until they are of drinking age to drink. Because telling a teenager that as long as he’s safe he can do something is a mistake. Most think they are immortal and have no common sense in determining what is really safe. That’s like leaving an open bag of dogfood in the room and letting my dog decide how much she should eat. It’s not going to be a good outcome!
 
Absolutely NOT!! I would never drink enough to where I can’t make that sort of decision. I know how much alcohol I can take. In fact I tried to stop someone from driving drunk this morning by standing in front of the car (ready to move out of the way in case he slammed the gas) but I couldn’t stop him. The doors were locked and pushed the gas despite me being in front of it. Of course right? He was WASTED and wouldn’t care. He had to drive about 12 miles to get home. I prayed to God to get him home safely.
If this happens again where one of your friends drives drunk, please don’t hesitate to call the police to let them know the make/model of car, license plate (if you can get it), and the estimated route of travel. Getting pulled over for a ticket and mandatory counseling would be preferable to your friend than would being responsible for his own or others’ deaths.

You seem like a reasonably intelligent young man. You’re going to see some stupid things in college, but please remember that 1) not everyone is into debauchery, and 2) it gets really, really boring after the 20th weekend in a row of taking away car keys and holding people’s heads up so they don’t choke in their own vomit. I’m glad you’re learning this lesson now. I didn’t until I was 20 and had almost blown a college scholarship.
 
The internal contradiction in your argument is that a truly responsible young person will follow the law and wait until they are of drinking age to drink. Because telling a teenager that as long as he’s safe he can do something is a mistake. Most think they are immortal and have no common sense in determining what is really safe.
That’s ridiculous. There are a good number of 18-21 year olds who are quite intelligent and have a great deal of common sense. All of my friends (aged 19-22 or so) drink responsibily - usually in the privacy of our own homes. And we never let our friends drive while under the influence. We’ve never had any alcohol-related incident - we’re all very responsible students. If the OP can do the same thing (and I think he/she can), then I don’t see how anyone can argue that there’s something wrong with that.

Except for the whole civil law thing. You know, I find it pretty funny that a group of men sitting in a secular Congress come together and one day (July 17, 1984, to be precise) suddenly create a new sin for Catholic Americans aged 18-21. It’s almost as if the material of the law is completely irrelevant. The civil government has outlawed a certain activity - and suddenly it’s not only illegal - it’s a *sin. *It’s not just the government that has outlawed it, it’s God, too… Of course, the idea that a conress can create a new sin is completely ridiculous.

A given law ought to be followed because if it’s a just and fair law. If an unjust law is passed - *every *American ought not to follow it. It doesn’t matter if it’s a ban on marajuana or a draft for an unjust war or Jim Crow laws - good people should never follow unjust laws *in addition *to acting against them politically.

The fact is that a responsible teenager or young adult has the ability to drink responsibly. That’s the fact.
Telling teenagers they don’t need to follow the civil law… well, then they start dispensing themselves from other laws. Because after all, why should they follow a church law just because it’s the law?
If a Church law or docrine or dogma or whatever is wrong, it shouldn’t be followed either.
And it borders on scandal what you are advocating. Someone young and seeking the truth has come here to ask an honest question. Do you have the right to lead him astray?
Sure do! First amendment rights. 😉
 
Okay, Exalt. Now we know what we are dealing with here. Thanks for clarifying that. I had no idea you were so young also.

Your opinions will be taken for what they are worth.

Just a hint, though. Iconoclasm gets old after a while. Especially when other people decide what laws they don’t like also, and it interferes with your own right to life, liberty or property.
You know, I find it pretty funny that a group of men sitting in a secular Congress come together and one day (July 17, 1984, to be precise) suddenly create a new sin for Catholic Americans aged 18-21. It’s almost as if the material of the law is completely irrelevant. The civil government has outlawed a certain activity - and suddenly it’s not only illegal - it’s a sin. It’s not just the government that has outlawed it, it’s God, too… Of course, the idea that a conress can create a new sin is completely ridiculous.
Well, groups of people have decided what age one can give consent to sexual encounters. Some think those laws should be violated. So you have 35 year old men who are trying to have sex with 15 year old girls. I suppose in your world that should not be allowed. The civil government can outlaw many activities. Someday you will see the benefit of the laws that keep 10-year-olds from buying liquor, and prevent 15-year-olds from marrying the loves of their lives.

Even first amendment rights have limits for those who are truly intelligent and have common sense. If you doubt this, go to your nearest airport and hold your backpack over your head and shout loudly “I have a bomb.” Then protest your first amendment rights as you are wrestled to the ground, cuffed and booked.

Under your first amendment rights, you can tell a three year old baby there is no Santa. But should you?

And we won’t begin to discuss marijuana laws and the attitude that walking around under the influence is good for traffic, safety, or public welfare.

In short, Exalt, when you grow up, come back and join the discussion as an adult. Until then, hope that you and your friends are not helping each other develop life-long alcoholism problems. (Most alcoholics I know got their start during college partying days.)
 
Does this mean I committed a sin when I drank a glass of white wine to celebrate the release of the motu proprio since I am underage? :confused:
 
The Church has no official declaration on this; so if that’s what you’re looking for, you’re not going to find an answer. If you want to make a decision for yourself, however, this is a good place to find different opinions - choose the one that makes sense and go with it, imo.

Personally? Suddenly being 21 doesn’t magically make you more responsible. It’s an arbitrary age picked by the government. If you’re a responsible young person (and you sound like one), there’s nothing wrong with drinking under the legal age, so long as you’re safe.
The authority required by the moral order derives from God: “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.” CCC 1899
 
Does this mean I committed a sin when I drank a glass of white wine to celebrate the release of the motu proprio since I am underage? :confused:
Depending on the circumstances. Some states allow parents to give their children alcohol (although it is still illegal to allow you to get drunk). If they gave it to you and you are in one of these states, then no.

Otherwise, yes. Jesus taught us to obey civil authority.

Liberanosamalo, nice job. 👍
 
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