Understanding a husbands masterbation

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harmon3110 said:
I am curious, because I am new to this Forum: Are most people here as strictly conservative in their views as the people who have posted on this thread?
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You actually will find a mix pf people. I came looking for answers on things and while the forum is helpful, it can also cause stress, for exactly the reason you mentioned: it seems many people are more strict, or orthodox, than me. Makes me feel guilty as hell if I disagree or don’t understand. Does it make them wrong? I don’t think so. But some posts come across as “you’re damned to hell” and judgemental when I think the intention is to present their interpretation of church teaching. And that’s the rub (no pun intended) - everyone on here has different backgrounds, so who is to say who is more correct? Best thing at the end of the day on any of these issues is to go talk to a priest you trust.

Personally, I do take following church teachings seriously, and the most difficult ones to follow are those on sex. The masturbation issue is pretty clear cut; it is a sin and needs to be confessed because you are turning to yourself, it takes away from your marriage partner, and is not open to life. If you read through other threads, you’ll find that there is also great dissention on the issues of the role of pleasure in sex, and even more on what activites outside of intercourse are allowed and which are not. Talk about strict - read some of the posts. And you have to take all of it with a grain of salt, so to speak, exactly because there are so many different interpretations by different people here. Again, go talk to a priest, read some of the books suggested, make an informed decision.

But the main point and focus is you have to ask yourself: are you going to follow church teachings or not? If so, there is no wiggle room or picking and choosing. Is it perfect? Good question; goes to the magisterium’s interpretation and presentation of God’s plan and will, through guidance from the Holy Spirit, not just a bunch of guys in robes sitting around debating. And in that, it demands your faith in God and the Holy Spirit.

When it comes to issues of sex, it does seem mostly that the church says “here are the rules; follow them” and does not discuss the effects, such as stress and lack of intimacy. This has also been addressed in other threads. The church almost gets in a corner - it cannot condone certain things just because of the effects without condoning sin (masturbation because of frustration or orgasm for the man other than through intercourse). It has to stick to the guidance of the Holy Spirit on the matters. And then we as Catholics have to follow it.

Can just plain be a bummer sometimes, though, hmmm?
 
well sure
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well what in the golly gee willerkers are we arguing about!:rotfl:
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I think it’s because I said a wife should never say “no” unless there is a really good reason - and simply not feeling like it wasn’t a good reason.

If a woman was married to a chaste, pure man, who loved God, she could never say no, and she would never be “used”. Because the decision would be made together. Maybe she’s really tired. And maybe he wants her embrace, but it isn’t that critical. So they’ll probably wait another day. Or maybe she’s really tired, but he’s had an absolutely awful day at work and needs the reassurance of the marital embrace so he can get up the next day and hit the rock pile again.

Rather than it being a unilateral “yes” or “no” it turns out to be a bit of a communication session to find out why she’s not in the mood or to find out why he is in the mood. And together they decide which is more important.
 
As for a little glint into why the Church teaches what she teaches about sex:

The Church has all these rules about sex, not to protect us from being corrupted by sex, but to protect sex from being corrupted by us.

All this sexual ethics stems from the belief that human life is sacred. And where does human life come from? Human sex. Because sex is the font of sacred human life, sex itself is sacred.

Anytime you have something special, something sacred, you treat it with special care. That means you have little “rules” about what you can and cannot do with it. Perhaps your family has a special set of china. The rule is, you don’t use the china for ordinary meals. It’s reserving the china only for special occasions that makes the china itself something special. And, because the china is never used for ordinary meals, the china makes it visible that this meal is special. For instance a husband might come home and find the china is set out for supper - but he doesn’t know it to be any special day. So he asks, “What’s the occasion?” And his wife will probably have some good news - Johnny got straight “A’s” or something.

If nothing special is done for Johnny’s outstanding report card, Johnny will get the impression that applying himself to his schoolwork is not worthwhile.

It is by taking special care of the font of human life that we can more easily “see” how sacred human life is.

The popes have said it in the past. When sexual ethics goes by the wayside we’ll open the door to abortion, euthanasia, and all sorts of murder. Human life will become cheap.
 
Black_Jaque said:
I think it’s because I said a wife should never say “no” unless there is a really good reason - and simply not feeling like it wasn’t a good reason.
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Yeah, that I no likey. Never say never as the saying goes. It really doesn’t matter if the other spouse THINKS its a good enough reason or not. Respect somone enough to accept a simple “no not tonight” There IS a reason if someone doesn’t feel like it.
 
Black_Jaque said:
. Or maybe she’s really tired, but he’s had an absolutely awful day at work and needs the reassurance of the marital embrace so he can get up the next day and hit the rock pile again.
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Well what would he do if he were single or just engaged.
 
Actorgirl
Well what would he do if he were single or just engaged.
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He wouldn’t put up with a job like that because he doesn’t need to support a wife and family.
OR
He could spend the rest of the evening on the racketball court, since he’s single he doesn’t have any obligations at home.
 
Well, I might say it’s a frame of mind… I was tired of the fights with the wife about (the lack of) sex and her understanding about it from our faith’s point of view. So I read a couple of West’s books on the subject. I decided to change my habits based on actual understanding of the “don’t”. I suggest “The Good News about Sex and Marriage”. You might read it first and then suggest it to your husband as “a way to spice up your sex life” and see what happens.

If the “problem” persists, you might get help from “Healing Hearts & Mending Minds” about pornography addiction. It’s all very technical but you’ll understand the “mechanics” behind the habit and, while I have not finished the book yet, it claims it can help you help your husband. The book is out of print at this time, so you’ll have to scrounge around for one.
 
I was tired of the fights with the wife about (the lack of) sex and her understanding about it from our faith’s point of view.
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Huh? Her understanding about [sex] from your faith’s point of view? Did her understanding jive with the Catholic understanding?
 
Not that I want to derail the thread… but to answer the question in light of other posts…

I always suggest that the wife reads it as well as the husband. That way they both have the same basic information to discuss. “The Good News…” I discovered, is handed to engaged couples when they go talk to our priest. Wish we had that kind of help back then.

I have tried to get DW to read “The Good News…” but she’s “too busy”. She seems fine with just knowing the “don’ts”. As many in these forums focus on. DW is on her own journey, I guess. I made this trip only 6 months ago so to expect her to change her outlook on sex because I did might be too much right now.

So I guess, we answer the don’t questions but forget to mention the “Do” side of “as God intended” assuming I guess everyone understands “the good stuff.” But do they?
 
OK, so it sounds like your wife doesn’t quite grasp the Catholic view of sex. She accepts the prohibitions, and that’s fine. The prohibitions are there to help us see the beauty of sex.

The Catholic view of sex is like one of those weird computer generated 3D images. You know the ones where you have to stare at it for a while - then WHAMO - you can see it.

To the uninitiated, those images are nothing special. Maybe kind of a pretty combination of colors and swirls. But once you “get it” those things are really cool.

Some people get it right away. Other people take some time.
 
Funny you should mention that… She NEVER sees anything in them. I usually get them in a few seconds. Thanks for the analogy, that helps!
 
searching06 said:
But the main point and focus is you have to ask yourself: are you going to follow church teachings or not? If so, there is no wiggle room or picking and choosing. Is it perfect? Good question; goes to the magisterium’s interpretation and presentation of God’s plan and will, through guidance from the Holy Spirit, not just a bunch of guys in robes sitting around debating. And in that, it demands your faith in God and the Holy Spirit.
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This isn’t just idirected to to Searching06; it’s mostly directed to the other very conservative posters on this thread. I’m posting this in two parts because it is long.

I know that many people on this thread believe --sincerely-- that obedience to the magisterium is the sine qua non (indispensable condition) for being Catholic. I don’t share that view, and many --perhaps most?-- Catholics don’t share that view either. Also, arguing about that view won’t change the matter, because underlying is not an intellectual conclusion wrongly reached but, instead, a lack of trust for an institution that is regarded as very fallible indeed.

So, if you want to get people to stop masturbating --and, if you want to get people to trust the teaching authority of the Catholic Church-- I would humbly but strongly suggest to emphasize the reason for the teaching.

And, you would need to do so from an attitude of humble service, not a scholastic mentality that position x is right so therefore position y is wrong and its adherents are hell-bound sinners. The latter might be correct from a certain point of view, but it sure doesn’t win friends and influence people . . .

So, here is an example of what I would suggest. And before you laugh too hard, please keep in mind that I’m the kind of guy you’re trying to persuade.

First, explain sex. Say something like this:
*God created sex, and He pronounced it good, and He also gave us instructions on how to use it wisely and well. If we keep His instructions, we will be happier than if we don’t. And if we don’t keep God’s instructions, well, just look around: a 50% divorce rate, a culture of pornography in which men act like adolescents and women are treated as sexual objects, rampant sexually transmitted disease, and a mindset that children are problems to be avoided . . . or eliminated, through abortion . . . when inconvenient, and so on. On the one hand is realistic possibility for stable, loving relationships and families and strength of character and integrity, and on the other hand is the mess that surrounds us in society.

So, here’s God’s view on sex: it’s for making babies and for making love. The fun of sex is an added bonus, to help us enjoy and delight in making babies and making love. It’s kind of like how the purpose of eating is to nourish ourselves and (when we eat together) to strengthen our relationships. And the taste of food helps make that enjoyable. But, if we eat just for the taste, you will get problems: being overweight, heart disease, diabetes. And, if we have sex just for fun, you will also likely get problems . . .

So, here’s how to follow God’s instructions, which will make us stronger and which will reduce the likelihood of having some serious problems: Don’t masturbate.

It might sound silly but it makes sense. Masturbation is training the central nervous system --the body-- to live for what feels good instead of what is good. That is bad in itself, and it makes it hard to resist bad things in the future. If we are training ourselves to make ourselves feel good, it will be hard --very hard-- to resist bad things that might feel good: things like greed, adultery, gluttony, rage, and so on. Masturbating, basically, is training oneself to be selfish and to seek your own pleasure. That is bad for what it can lead to. It’s also bad for what it does to you now: making you a slave to pleasure.

It’s sort of like smoking cigarettes. Will one cigarette kill a person? Of course not. Except, it almost never stops at one cigarette. One cigarette leads to another which leads to another, and so; and pretty soon a person has been smoking for 20 years. And smoking for 20 years can kill. So, it turns out that one cigarette can kill you after all…*

[continued in the following post]
 
[continued from the previous post]

*It’s impossible to fully control ourselves by ourselves. Everyone has a weak side. But that is ok, because God created us that way so we could realize that we really do need God. Gods isn’t just an idea nor a fancy story. God is real. God is our source and our destination, and we need God’s help to live with Him: now and forever. So, whether for sexual self-control or something else, we need God’s help.

We can get God’s help by repentance. Repentance means more than saying your sorry. Repentance means asking for help to start living anew in union with God. It means asking God for help to get up and start walking again after we have fallen.

We can practice repentance by using certain tools. They are Confession, Communion, prayer, fasting and almsgiving . . .]*
That is what would be persuasive to me and others like me. I know, because that is what I tell myself as I try (and fail, and try again with repentance) to control and sanctify myself, including the sex drive. It is a therapeutic model of redemption, wherein God is the Divine Doctor of our souls and in which we are the patients who must comply with the doctor’s orders – in order to be healthy and to live.

It is an approach that is a lot more appealing and motivational to the people who actually need help than being quoted chapter and verse of the Catholic Catechism and being told we will go to hell if we disagree.

Be well.
 
It is an approach that is a lot more appealing and motivational to the people who actually need help than being quoted chapter and verse of the Catholic Catechism and being told we will go to hell if we disagree.
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I think you did a great job explaining the brilliance of God in the marital act. And if you did a search of the forums on this topic, you would find similar explanations given by other posters. However, diminishing the role the Catechism plays in forming such concepts is unfair. A quick reading of the CC may leave one feeling as though their question has been left unanswered, or that the response is legalistic, but one really has to reflect and meditate on what has been revealed in this great work in order to develop concepts and explanations such as the one you have given.
 
Masturbation to both Married Male and Female can be of mutual aspect of undestanding when both shares their intimacy during their sexual contact…meaning there’s no problem on masturbation when both of you agreed to be part of sexual desire adding more fruitfull inter-action that leads to more better sexual arouse.

Both of you should agree about it and it may help more to better feelings of happiness when both minds focuses to both of you,the effects is superb and concentration to much well explored Love,leading to a romantic Love affair in bed.

Talk in bed and open to all sex exploration but dont’ fall to a dirty sex exploration using Toys and some other non-normal positions in bed.

I do believe voth of you is not open to sex talk…try it don’t be ashame bring ofteness as a freedom of sex encounters.

God give us more to explore to both married couples and feed-back to me if you had experienced the same though.

God Bless
 
Hey HT, welcome to the forums. Where are you from?

I am guessing that what you are advocating is a form of masturbation as part of foreplay. That’s fine with Church teaching. But masturbation, to the point of climax, would be bad even if you and your spouse agree to it.
 
Black Jack,

I’m from Manila, Philippines and working abroad at this time…you’ve got the point of what i am trying to imply that’s part of a good foreplay to put couples reach the good mood when they do sex in bed.Most married couples don’t talk in bed and allow both to explore more better encounters in sex where it is so
privately.
Not to be ashamed to each and everyone of you that knowing each other and accept the best part of Love…undestanding each other.

Thanks for te reply.

God Bless
 
whatevergirl said:
We spend a lot of time on masturbation/sexual sins on this board:o …I mean, it’s essential to know the teachings…but it seems to be** thee most talked about ‘sin’**…and I have sinned in my life…and at times, it had to do with impurity…but most of my sins are done*…out of the bed*, shall we say?

I guess I have a hard time getting my yardstick out to measure people’s sexual sins with such harshness…when I know that I fall every day…in non sexual ways. It sometimes feels that we hold sexual sins in worse regard than any other…??:o

Show me someone who isn’t struggling or has never struggled with sin…and I’ll show you Jesus–ONLY.

Just a different point of view.
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Sins of impurity have a stigma that is engrained in our subconcious,and for good reason. There is a reason why the Blessed Mother told Sister Lucia at Fatima that more people were in Hell due to sins of lust than any other vice. Pride may be the root of all evil, but lust is the “miracle grow”.
 
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